• Welcome to Talking Time's third iteration! If you would like to register for an account, or have already registered but have not yet been confirmed, please read the following:

    1. The CAPTCHA key's answer is "Percy"
    2. Once you've completed the registration process please email us from the email you used for registration at percyreghelper@gmail.com and include the username you used for registration

    Once you have completed these steps, Moderation Staff will be able to get your account approved.

  • TT staff acknowledge that there is a backlog of new accounts that await confirmation.

    Unfortunately, we are putting new registrations on hold for a short time.

    We do not expect this delay to extend beyond the first of November 2020, and we ask you for your patience in this matter.

    ~TT Moderation Staff

A Night at the Met...troidvania

Beowulf

Son of The Answer Man
(He/Him)
Okay, so, I finished and totally enjoyed Shantae: Half-Genie Hero, but its metroidvania credentials are weakened by the stage-based setup. But you do need to figure out how to use your powers to find secrets by returning to previous areas. I'd call it borderline?

Has anyone played Seven Sirens? How metroidvania-ish is it?
 

Sarge

hardcore retro gamin'
Very Metroidvania. I enjoyed it a lot, although Pirate's Curse is still my favorite of the series.
 
Seven Sirens is back to being a Metroidvania. Of all the Shantae games it made the least impression on me, it's just kinda there. I don't know if that has to do with it being an Apple Arcade game that was in chunks or not.

Also, it does something I find to be a sin with Metroidvania games -
There are permanently missable parts of the map that you cannot go to after a certain part in the story. It has an alternative way for you to get the collectibles you may have missed, but I still absolutely hate it.
 

Beta Metroid

At peace
(he/him)
Cross-posted from the October Dracula-slaying thread:

Aria of Sorrow is down! Stray thoughts: I love how different each playthrough can feel if you don't actively grind for souls. I remember discovering how Curly, an enemy whose arsenal consists of "walk forward," has this flashy, powerful soul attack that grants invincibility frames. This time, I leaned heavily on Valkyrie, and used a lot of stone breath to clear out pesky fleamen and stone a few tough enemies (dolls, the military officer enemies), before I had the equipment to one-shot them.

Everything involving Balore's build-up and presentation is a lot of fun and very impressive (and the Phantom Bat fakeout isn't just a throwaway gag; it's one of the most useful and crucial souls in the entire game!). But the fight itself just kinda sucks.

On the other hand, Legion has an amazing build-up as well, and that fight's a lot of fun. The high point of the game in my opinion!

I ran into Death at Level 13 and his second form was really wiping the floor with me. I realized that I managed to skip two bosses in the intended order before running into him...it's been a long time since I've played this game. It took about 20 tries, but I got him. A key realization was that when he boomerangs his scythe in his second form, it always travels horizontally, so you can safely crouch under it. This is not the case in his first form, and I could take so few hits that I guess it just took a while for that to click. But it felt satisfying to prevail, and cleaning up the golem, headhunter, and their assorted areas was cathartic.
 

Beta Metroid

At peace
(he/him)
I realize I never reported my Hard Mode 100% clear of Ori and the Will of the Wisps! Game is most certainly in my top 10 all time, and once Metroid Dread/Castleween festivities are over, I definitely plan to go back and attempt my first sub-4-hour run (one of the last achievements I have left, except a no-death clear, which I most certainly do not have the patience for at this point in my life).

I also played a whole ton of Metroid Zero Mission! It's been a while since I've given it this degree of attention (in fact, I probably dug into it even more than when it was new), getting a sub-two-hour clear for the first time ever, as well as a Hard Mode clear for the first time ever (which was quite slow, but netted 90% completion, which is my highest clear percentage ever).

I certainly understand people's issues with Zero Mission, but after playing a ton of it and Fusion, I ended up really clicking with its controls and movement and it just feels so good. It's also admirable how hard it strives to be all things to all players. It's a great entry point to the series, chronologically coming first with very accessible controls, Chozo statue recharges and waypoints, and adjustable difficulty settings. It refines a lot of Fusion's elements, while attempting to address a lot of the more prominent gripes about that game (bomb jumping and single wall-jumping are back, and easier than ever!). And it actively rewards low-percent runs, speed runs, and completionism alike! And while its hard mode is primarily just tweaking some values, it does make resource management very interesting (and in cases where it does add enemies, it really changes up those areas. I remember the approach to the Ice Beam just being a formality on Normal, but becoming a bit of a gauntlet on Hard).

Of course, it's also the only Metroid game to actively account for sequence breaking. Or at least, actively design the alternate paths. In Super, they HAD to realize breaks were possible when they include things like bomb jumping, the shinespark, and wall jumping (though I don't know if they intended single wall jumping). I know a big criticism of Zero Mission is that the alternate paths don't feel like you're putting one over on the devs, and I see that. But at the same time...designing alternative routes that are fun, satisfying, and don't mess up the game's playability while also creating the illusion that they were oversights for the player to exploit is kind of a lot to ask. Also, I'm someone who counts Super Metroid as one of my top three favorite games of all time, but I can readily admit that Zero Mission regularly tests your abilities in more technical ways. It's a tradeoff...I still prefer Super overall, but I was really enjoying the appeal of Zero Mission in this latest playthrough.

Some things that really stood out to me was finding the Screw Attack early, as well as pulling off several shinespark tricks for Super Missiles. I'm not always in the mood for the technical, precise execution of these types of challenges, but they're well designed and I really enjoyed them in the moment. I think it also helps that Super Missiles and Power Bombs are much rarer than in Super Metroid, and there seems to be more correlation between the item type and the challenge of obtaining it.

The one disappointment I came away with in this replay is the reminder that Zero Mission is really lacking the atmosphere and tension that most Metroid games deal in. It's why I'm a monster who actually enjoys the stealth sequence...it's the one time the game approaches its predecessors in that regard. And the catharsis of getting your fully powered suit is nice.
 

RT-55J

definitely not a robot
(He/Him)
I will forever be jealous of someone who I saw streaming Zero Mission as their first Metroid a few months ago, who was utterly engrossed by the game's atmosphere and was legitimately 100% blindsided by the Chozodia segment.
 

Beta Metroid

At peace
(he/him)
My impression is that it's generally really well liked, and many of the criticisms I've touched on are usually ones that I've seen given by others more in the context of "why Super Metroid is better" and less "why Zero Mission is bad."
 

Peklo

Oh! Create!
(they/them, she/her)
I don't like it outside of the stealth sections. I think any game is done a disservice in assuming that it affects all of its audience similarly, and it's really not that difficult to find opinions to the contrary of whatever's perceived to be the prevailing stance.
 
I like everything about it save for how it looks. brinstar goes from this minimalist, yet alien atmosphere in OG and Super to brown rock zone. WTF
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Depending on my mood at the time I'm thinking about it, my favorite in the series is either Fusion or Zero Mission*. They both play so well to me, and I could not care less about whether sequence breaking in any game is "intentional" on behalf of the developers or not. I like the atmosphere of both games, the music of both games, the environments of both games, the bosses of both games, the puzzles of both games, the weaponry of both games, and so on. Right now... I'ma go with Fusion as my favorite, old school TT consensus be damned.

*I have not played Dread yet, fwiw.
 

Sarcasmorator

Same as I ever was
(He/him)
I don't like it outside of the stealth sections. I think any game is done a disservice in assuming that it affects all of its audience similarly, and it's really not that difficult to find opinions to the contrary of whatever's perceived to be the prevailing stance.
My comment was intended less as "people shouldn't dislike this" and more as "I have never heard of the game being considered to have issues, and was surprised to learn that by some it is"
 
Last edited:

RT-55J

definitely not a robot
(He/Him)
I'm rather ambivalent towards Zero Mission. On one hand I can acknowledge its particular tightness and thoroughness of design, while on the other hand I feel that the particular ways that it adheres to and diverges from the source material weaken it as a holistic work and always dampen my desire to replay it. (Also, I don't like the physics. They feel way too jerky and twitchy and lead-booted.)
 

Kirin

Summon for hire
(he/him)
I'm the opposite - I have massive appreciation for the original Metroid as a concept, and for its many inspirations and its masterful atmosphere, but I have much more fun actually *playing* Zero Mission, which I enjoyed so much I actually banged my head on the increasingly ridiculous shinespark challenges 'til I got every one of them.
 

Sarcasmorator

Same as I ever was
(He/him)
Same here. OG Metroid is not a real fun play for me. Often found it frustrating even as a kid (and honestly never caught much of an isolation mood from it, nearly all games at the time had few characters but the protagonist, if any).
 

FelixSH

(He/Him)
I like Zero Mission, it's fun. But I'm always confused by the idea, that it replaces the original, which feels like such a different game to me. I can see, why people dislike playing the original Metroid (I do enjoy it), though, it's a very specific taste. Except if people are talking about it's place in the story, which, yeah, fair enough.

The isolation mood comes, for me, from the use of colors. I think a lot of it is the black background, it makes me feel, like I'm on a planet without atmosphere, or something like that. It feels old-school sci-fi to me, sort-of. And everything looks so alien, without being cartoony like a Mario game, for example. Considering that this is mainly artstyle, this varies, of course, from person to person, it's just my take on it. Oh, and also the sparseness. The NES game doesn't have much fauna, which gives the whole place an even more dangerous vibe, like it doesn't welcome a human like Samus.
 

Sarge

hardcore retro gamin'
Zero Mission is actually my favorite, even if it's been a long time since I played through it. I do agree, though, that it in no way actually replaces the original. It's an amazing spin on it, but both are still worthwhile to play.

Dread, for me, has continually gotten better as I've played. I'm probably pretty close to the end at this point.
 

Octopus Prime

Mysterious Contraption
(He/Him)
Since beating Dread, I wanted to play some other amazingly fluid troids, that I hadn’t beaten before; so i opted to go with Ori and the Blind Forest.

Still do not like how combat feels in this game; don’t know how instant homing lasers could feel imprecise, but by god, they do. Also don’t like that you need a limited (but renewable) resource to save your game or open a menu, but that too is a gameplay choice that was made. Both these complaints are addressed in the sequel, so plainly I’m not the only one it was bugging
 

Beta Metroid

At peace
(he/him)
You can only review your skill tree at a save point, which you need to expend what is essentially mana to do.

...Yeah, the sequel improved on the original in many ways, though I still love Blind Forest dearly. My approach to combat got a lot smoother when I learned to emphasize knocking enemies into environmental hazards (which is almost always instant death for them, and often pretty simple to do after you gain the Bash ability).
 

Paul le Fou

Pickle Bus Owns Tulip Town
(He)
I have Blind Forest sitting around I think, but I might skip directly to the sequel if the opportunity arises before I get the urge to play the first one (likely).
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
I love Zero Mission, although something about how the spin jump works rubs me the wrong way. To be honest, if it's a 2D Metroid it's a good time for me, except I think I appreciate the first one more than I'll ever enjoy it. The enemy placements are just too unforgiving and restarting with 30 energy all the time is too cruel. It's an incredible game and a trail blazer, but I'm an old-ass man without enough time to git gud
 

karzac

(he/him)
I liked Blind Forest in the final accounting, but found a ton of it irritating, and it didn't really feel like it benefited from the Metroidvania structure. It felt like the devs didn't know if they'd ever get to make another game,and so put every idea they ever had into it. It think it would have been a better game if it had fewer abilities with levels that were more discrete.

Didn't mind the save system.
 
Top