• Welcome to Talking Time's third iteration! If you would like to register for an account, or have already registered but have not yet been confirmed, please read the following:

    1. The CAPTCHA key's answer is "Percy"
    2. Once you've completed the registration process please email us from the email you used for registration at percyreghelper@gmail.com and include the username you used for registration

    Once you have completed these steps, Moderation Staff will be able to get your account approved.

A new age of Ninja Gaiden

Peklo

Oh! Create!
(they/them, she/her)
The world's most violent antique shop owner is back in business in a major way, and it would probably be simplest to just lay out what has been announced as of late on the Dragon Ninja front.


Announced last month, Ninja Gaiden: Ragebound angles to be a successor to the NES trilogy's stylings by the makers of Blasphemous. It's been over thirty years since the last sidescrolling platformer game in the series, so who knows how that legacy will interact with a studio whose leanings have been to adapt and explore action game design trends of a different sort than any existing branch of Ninja Gaiden represents. Like the ill-advised and justly maligned Yaiba, it's another turn to have Ryu step aside from protagonisthood in favour of novice apprentice Kenji; I'd rather have had one of the perennially co-starring ninja women take the lead instead.


Announced the other day, Ninja Gaiden 4 posits a return for the Tomonobu Itagaki reboot series after more than a decade of slumber. Development is shared between Team Ninja and Platinum Games, which is a mix that's sure to be interesting to see unravel, as the traditional sensibilities in action game design between Ninja Gaiden and the Devil May Cry-derived Platinum house style have existed at contrasting ends of the spectrum in what to emphasize and how to design combat, enemies and encounters in the shared baseline milieu. Aesthetically the glimpsed future-modern cityscape setting doesn't track far off from the reboot series's persistent military otaku bent, and even connects to the cybernetic trappings of the third NES game. There's yet another attempt to broaden the series's cast of playable ninjas, as Ryu shares the playable spotlight (and is positioned as secondary, arguably) with neophyte Yakumo.


Announced and released (!) in the same veritable breath as NG4, Ninja Gaiden 2 Black is the surprise remaster and revision of the 2008 original... or so the PR copy presents it as. The subtitle "Black" is a loaded one, as it was the one used for the revised and largely considered definitive iteration of 2004's Ninja Gaiden, a true classic of the action game genre if there ever was one. Ninja Gaiden II in its original form was the last game worked on by reboot shepherd Itagaki, who at that point was in the midst of leaving/being fired from Tecmo, for a whole mess of issues ranging from unpaid bonuses to workplace harassment (with him as the accused). Thus the game's reputation on release and in the years since took on the manner of an unfiltered, audacious and halfway breaking apart treatise on the genre, facilitated by there simply being no time to make it come off as anything except a game for sickos, by sickos, earning it admiration and ire for its reckless excesses. The PS3 ports termed "Sigma" of the two games changed a great many things about them aesthetically and mechanically, and in NGII's case drastically altered its rhythms and game balance in reducing its vast enemy counts while also increasing their durability and lessening their aggression--a more accommodating game at an entry level, but also less daring, fascinating and often literally emptier than what had been before.

That's the most basic of basic context necessary for understanding 2 Black, as the developer claim goes that they've tried to wind back the clock to the original's play balance, as a gesture toward the hardcore who value the game for its uniqueness in the genre. It's a bit of promotional chest-thumping and sleight of hand that feels distinctly unearned, as what this new version is is a rendition of the game based heavily on Sigma 2, down to running its game logic and code as is in the background and presenting it through the all-new Unreal Engine 5 exterior the game now enjoys. There are changes informed by the "the original is better" sentiment, sure: severing enemy limbs occurs more frequently (a core component of the combat dynamics as conceived by the original) if not as often as in the 360 game; enemy healthpools are reduced if not, again, as light as in the original; enemy spawns, numbers and aggression are (at least anecdotally) also bumped up some; the upgrade system behaves the same as in the original and is not as limiting; and the lurid visual gore of the original has been restored, if you missed that flavouring. At the same time, the Sigma 2 baseline is adhered to in the additional content (three additional playable characters with their own story chapters each, most prominently) and more granular details of attack and animation properties present, clearly positioning 2 Black as--more truthfully--a tweaked and overall more satisfyingly flowing version of the large overhaul the game previously received.

Whatever prevents them from committing to authentically reflecting the original--lack of developer interest, the source code being long lost, or anything else--the misnomer the game now carries, while potentially promotionally useful to the diehards, can just as easily be read as a sign of inauthenticity in evoking a standard that was not ever in the cards of being pursued or reached, should the hardcore condemn it so. And that would be a shame, because even should you read Ninja Gaiden II a compromised masterstroke in one of its subsequent iterations (or in its original form), 2 Black is experientially no lesser of a take on it, and its new lease on life many years after release in a greatly shifted industry allows one to perceive its qualities ever clearer, and how strongly it still rates for anyone with an interest in spatially intensive, hyper-fast 3D action. The mark that I am, I also cannot help but read into the handful of Dead or Alive regulars that exist in this game who have now received brand new character models, and whether that series might also receive better treatment than it has in great many years.


~~~
That's Ninja Gaiden as it stands now, having jumped from nothing at all to three projects in the same year within a month and a change's time. Wild how that goes. Chatter about any aspect of the series that intrigues, of course--past, present or future. 2 Black has been highly enjoyable as a firsthand newcomer, longtime distant observer to it, and these games always reveal more of themselves on higher difficulties... so that's probably something to keep oneself occupied with for a while.
 

LBD_Nytetrayn

..and his little cat, too
(He/him)
I always preferred the NES games, so hopefully Ragebound works for me. (You don't get to be Ryu, though? Damn.)

I've always wanted a game that is to the NES titles what Symphony of the Night is to the early Castlevanias. I don't know if this will be that, though.

That said, while the new era NGs never quite hooked me, I am a fan of PlatinumGames' stuff, so maybe 4 will do it for me?

As for Ninja Gaiden II, I thought they did this already, with the other two?
 

Peklo

Oh! Create!
(they/them, she/her)
It's probably not very legible for anyone not deep into the weeds with this stuff, so a brief overview of the reboot series's tangled release history across the revisions:

Ninja Gaiden, 2004, Xbox - the origin point for all this stuff.
Ninja Gaiden Hurricane Packs, 2004, Xbox - two free downloadable expansions introducing new difficulties, enemies, missions, weapons, costumes, mechanics, and generally just a thorough tweaking of the game in general.
Ninja Gaiden Black, 2005, Xbox - compilation of the former with some new stuff still, only removing a particularly overpowered technique in the process. This is the version people generally play and value the most.
Ninja Gaiden Sigma, 2007, PlayStation 3 - big aesthetic overhaul on the new platform to fit with the trends of the time (washed out bloom-filled picture), Rachel integrated as playable in her own intermission chapters, a myriad of changes bigger and smaller generally trying to streamline the original's light puzzling and adventure navigation bent. It's not bad, but not an ideal version.
Ninja Gaiden Sigma Plus, 2012, Vita - what it says, scaled down to the handheld the best it can, with some minor additional system-exclusive functions and some additional bonus material like costumes.

Ninja Gaiden II, 2008, Xbox 360 - Itagaki's final say. As discussed, carries its own inimitable flavor not replicated in any subsequent version, or in other games in the genre. Notably still locked to its original platform, but still available through backwards compatibility on modern Xbox systems, which actually greatly boost its technical performance which was a frequent struggle point on original hardware.
Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2, 2009, PlayStation 3 - a much more fundamental and mechanically thorough revision than the first Sigma was; honestly too many changes to summarize. The skeleton of the game remains but the internal workings are all different, resulting in a different play experience in ways that are and will always remain controversial. Like before, new playable characters were added in their own chapters.
Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 Plus, 2013, Vita - same deal as before, with some additional bonus modes and apparel as incentive. Honestly impressive they got it to run at all... but it's heavily compromised in enemy counts and such, and barely does regardless.
Ninja Gaiden 2 Black, 2025, all modern platforms except for Nintendo's - as discussed. The new visuals are what will differentiate on the surface, and there are granular tweaks to the Sigma 2 baseline under the hood too, usually for the better. It's not a direct replacement or an update to the 360 game for all the promotional spin.

Ninja Gaiden 3, 2012, PS3 and Xbox 360 - the least liked game in the modern run. Has been thoroughly supplanted by its revision in reputation and interest, unlike the former two games, so you don't hear much about it except as a historical record. Notably returned Masato Kato writing for the series, like he had in the NES days.
Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge, 2012, Wii U (quickly ported to PS3 and Xbox 360) - said revision which brought the game from largely disliked to an acquired taste. Some swear by its central combat mechanics, even if the trappings in level design, scenario and most everything else diminish the effort. In that vein, has the most mechanically developed secondary playable cast to do combat with in various challenge missions.

Ninja Gaiden: Master Collection, 2021, all platforms - collects the newest revisions of the trilogy in one package. Likely a factor in the current push for the series manifesting at all; the hardcore had gripes in Black and NGII original not being represented, but basic accessibility goes a long way in reminding people of the series. On PC, serves as the modding base for fan efforts in bringing the games closer to a state preferred by enthusiasts.

Whew!
 

Isrieri

My father told me this would happen
I'm not a mega fan of Ninja Gaiden and the only games I played were the first and second NES games. The essence of those games for me was:
  • Almost everything dies in one hit.
  • Therefore with good reflexes you can slice your way through most of it.
  • But there is infinite everything trying to kill you.
  • Approaching challenging bits strategically lets you look cool as you dodge and counter the enemy spam.
  • The scariest thing is a strong foe that takes 2+ hits to down. But the game typically gives you ways to overpower/circumvent them.
  • Subweapons exist to help with tough situations but you lose your ammo on game overs (frequent) and they use a lot of ammo.
  • But those weapons are powerful and tear enemies and bosses to shreds.
  • Bosses (sans final) weren't the most difficult part, the stages were, hands down. Bosses could be tough but smart weapon use or good strategy made them simple.
  • Birds are ninja's natural predators.
Therefore when you perform well, you truly feel like you're the most amazing ninja assassin of all time. Conversely when you screw up you feel that mistake in your gut like someone insulted your wife. The game design wasn't very fair and you often die by cheap shots yet somehow you still blame yourself because Ryu is a powerful character and your movement essentially controls when the enemies spawn.

From what I can tell by the trailer, I think they're trying to capture that essence while hopefully dialing back the bullshit. I saw you can deflect projectiles and that alone is amazing.
 

Torzelbaum

????? LV 13 HP 292/ 292
(he, him, his)
You can destroy at least some of the enemy projectiles in the NES games. (But that's not always helpful.)
 

Adrenaline

Post Reader
(He/Him)
I didn't have Xboxes when the Itagaki games were coming out, so I played Sigma and missed 2 altogether. I didn't realize Sigma 2 was a bigger overhaul of the game than the original. I downloaded 2 Black and will give it a whirl soon.
 
I'm not a mega fan of Ninja Gaiden and the only games I played were the first and second NES games. The essence of those games for me was:
  • Almost everything dies in one hit.
  • Therefore with good reflexes you can slice your way through most of it.

Yeah, I think this is pretty insightful. Also why Contra 1 is just about the greatest game of all time.
 
I'm a little grossed out by all the blood splatter in these trailers. Do people enjoy blood splatter and hope for more?

I thought that we were past peak-blood splatter of the XBox 360 era - maybe I'm wrong!
 

Peklo

Oh! Create!
(they/them, she/her)
I would assume it is generally enjoyed, given how much noise was made about Sigma 2's alteration of blood splatter into a purple mist-like substance--though that can just as well be a manifestation of a kneejerk "they took this thing away from us" rejection instinct. Hyperviolence has been associated with the series since the beginning of the reboot series, which prominently featured beheadings and the like for flavour, but with the second game it rose up to being iconic and integral given how the entire game leans and depends on severing enemy limbs to contextualize its mechanics and encounters with. It could always be substituted with something less violently graphic that satisfies the same mechanical purpose... but I don't think the audience for these games generally minds the gore, and it's always been used as a promotional tool on part of the developers.

I wrapped up Mentor (Very Hard) difficulty in 2 Black, which was great fun; the game opens up when it provides sufficient pushback, motivating you to learn how to play instead of just fumbling through, and getting the most out of the encounter design and even the bosses which are generally less valued... but having to learn their tells and nuances made me appreciate them more, especially the ones that involve adds, since Ninja Gaiden tends to be at its best when you have to perform on-your-feet crowd control and mitigate multiple threat vectors at once. I've technically started a Master Ninja playthrough as well, but I'm not committing to the end because each checkpoint interval is a true meatgrinder, this time directed at the player: the highly increased damage values in this version mean you can and will be regularly one-shotted in the early going, with absolutely everything angling for a split-second grab that can wipe you instantly. It's thrilling and enjoyable... just a lot to deal with.
 

LBD_Nytetrayn

..and his little cat, too
(He/him)
Ninja Gaiden II: The Dark Sword of Chaos is the bloodiest NES game I can recall.

Granted, it's all basically in one scene, but it kinda freaked me out a little as a kid.
 

Sarge

hardcore retro gamin'
Big fan of the original Ninja Gaiden trilogy on NES, of which the first and third are my favorites. I also greatly enjoyed the XBOX iteration (I didn't play through the Black version), and played the 360 version Ninja Gaiden II, which, while not as good as the first, was still quite fun. The third game I've bounced off of a few times - it just doesn't have the same feel to me at all. That was via the Razor's Edge version on Wii U.
 

Adrenaline

Post Reader
(He/Him)
I played the first six chapters of Ninja Gaiden II Black. Pretty fun, but you can definitely tell it originally came out in 2008.
 

Peklo

Oh! Create!
(they/them, she/her)
bP1CXP8.png

I did not end up being able to stay away from Master Ninja... but I won't pretend it wasn't a high hurdle to overcome; some chapters took me hours on their own. The starting third of the game or so is especially rough as you simply lack for weapon and health upgrades and an essence stockpile to top off consumables with, so there's nothing for it but to buckle down and learn each and every aspect of the game, its enemy behaviours and movelists, what's safe-on-block, what has iframes, which parts of the level design serve to confer you an advantage over the enemies, and so on... just all the things that might cross your mind occasionally in less demanding play, now reframed as essential knowledge checks. With the game being so committed to hyper-aggressive, lightning-fast crowds of enemies that come at you all at once, even the sheer repetition of practicing execution doesn't allow for roteness to settle in because the permutations in the moment are practically infinite; it's what made me play through this three times in a row and never doubt that there was meaningful reason to.

Part of why I came to love this game was its old soul, even in 2008 terms. Kato may have only returned to the series in the following game, but the structure and sensibilities NGII operates by are highly attuned to the series's past, including the games he worked on: it's the same familiar demon-resurrecting ninja drama, with Joe Hayabusa being bested by a rival character once again to be avenged by his son, and having a guarded statue heirloom stolen, leading to a globetrotting adventure. Like, Irene is here, as damseled as ever, just filtered and reimagined through the Itagaki brand of sexism compared to the previous status quo. The NES games are often compared to Castlevania for somewhat superficial reasons (lifting the HUD aesthetic, using the same sub-weapons and containers concept) but in here they've seemingly tapped into comparable set dressing, like an Atlantean ruins sequence, or a shockingly competent 3D platformer section up a clock tower's gears. There was always a sense that Ninja Gaiden in its rebooted form didn't quite fit the mold that most of its contemporaries and surrounding genre represented, in how it was too environmentally diverse in how its world was traversed, and how it didn't see the fighting as the only point of the production, and how its particular challenges had a kinship with a much older style of design where plain survival was the paramount question, regardless of how it was accomplished. That spirit still lingers in NGII, where it feels as authentic a synthesis of the pre-existing branches of the series--whether the beat 'em up or the platformer--as one could imagine and interprets those play rhythms through the dominant language of its era to very different ends.
 

Adrenaline

Post Reader
(He/Him)
I finished it on the normal mode, which was plenty for me. Compared to other games in the genre, I feel like I'm not in total control of Ryu at times.
 
Top