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Protags showing their age

gogglebob

gogglebob

The Goggles Do Nothing
(he/him)
This came up in the Final Fantasy thread, but I didn't want to derail the whole FF discussion and Peklo's excellent post on the subject of women in FF. That said...

What are some videogame character ages you have always "assumed" versus their canon ages? Have you ever been completely wrong about a character's age, or assume the "given" age of a character is a complete marketing fabrication? How old do you think these dorks are?

For my own example (and this came up on our Tuesday night streams last week), Cid Highwind of Final Fantasy 7 is a withered old man that once had a chance at his dream, but failed. He lives with his former assistant who has obviously been pining for him for years, but they have settled into the basic shape of a comfortable relationship wherein they generally understand each other. Cid eventually achieves his dream with the help of a bunch of scrappy young kids that are still optimistic enough to believe in the dreams he once dropped.

Cid is also supposed to be 32. Barret is apparently older! I'm older than that grizzled old man!
 
Peklo

Peklo

Oh! Create!
(they/them, she/her)
Misogyny ages Cid, I think. That and the cigarettes.

I have sort of an inverse example, in that I've found that people are often taken aback at Auron in FFX only being 35 (and dead for a decade of that age at that), because he's this archetype of an authoritative older man, a protective mentor figure, and also this sort of vapid badass as presented in several key scenes which is connected to ideas about how men age in media and what qualities about them are emphasized as a result. He also just looks older than that for the prominent nasolabial folds in his art and character model; minor tells like this are exaggerated in significance as aspects of character design and what they're meant to communicate, especially in an art style and field where people don't really have facial aging or are completely defined by them to an almost caricaturish extreme; you're either very young or very, very old.

What it hinges on for me and why I was never particularly surprised at his relative youth is that I think he's a fundamentally teenagely immature character in everything he's about, from the presumedly sheltered upbringing in essentially a warrior cult to the escape from an arranged marriage to his world-saving naivete to imprinting heavily and irrevocably to his friends who walked willingly to their deaths and lead to him embracing and prolonging his, all for them. Auron is just pure unrelenting emotion in what motivates and drives him but because he has the exterior of a dry, mostly silent cynic he gets read as the opposite, and the scenes that drop the artifice occur much later in the game, so we're left with an impression of a sullen murder uncle instead of a guy who was never able to rid himself of the intense emotional bonds that defined him in life and in death.
 
Kazin

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
And that's why that scene just before you fight Yunalesca gets me every time - Auron's walls come down and he's laid bare as the emotional wreck he is. He's at his most teenage there, I think. I love him.
 
Octopus Prime

Octopus Prime

Mysterious Contraption
(He/Him)
The example that always catches me as being almost cartoonishly off base from canon to perception are the twins from FF4.

Everything about them suggests “about ten-ish”.

And they are five

And the Nintendo Power art splits the difference by making them elderly babies
 
conchobhar

conchobhar

What's Shenmue?
Honestly, probably most JRPGs. Character ages in these games skew young, so whatever age I read a character as tends to be a bit older than what their official age ends up being. And since ages almost never come up in the game itself, I frequently ignore it and continue reading them older; I often head-canon characters as two or three years older than their official ages…

But one that always makes me scratch my head is Lulu from Final Fantasy X. I always thought she had to be somewhere in the late-twenties-early-thirties range, given her appearance, her role as a maternal figure to Yuna, and her storied past (a three-time Guardian and widow). She is however merely 22. I think what really makes this ridiculous is how much it compresses her backstory: her first stint as a Guardian is said to be when she was 20, which means she went on three pilgrimages in three years time and also still found time to get married. And that the failure of her first pilgrimage has been entirely forgotten. It would make a lot more sense if that were all spread out a bit more.

Celes (Final Fantasy VI) is another odd one: a general in the Imperial Army at the ripe old age of 18. Now, her personality definitely suggests she's young… but even accounting for her early conscription, and that being a magitek knight makes her a prodigy of sorts, 18 just seems too young to have risen to such a rank (and gained a fearsome reputation). I figured she had to be about 22— still young, but now at and age where her career seems a bit more sensible.
 
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Peklo

Peklo

Oh! Create!
(they/them, she/her)
Ah, fuck it: I have to contest that reading of Shera and Cid's relationship outside of just light snark because it really does bother me and seems really romanticized and charitable to a damaging situation. There's just no other way for me to interpret what's going on there than the results of years of intense and regular emotional abuse on part of Cid, directed at Shera who's his former subordinate in the industry and project they both came from, so the power dynamics are already lopsided from the start. She ends up as practically his live-in maid (without any compensation of actual employment) out of guilt, for "ruining" a dream for him where he chose not to willfully allow the death of a person in favour of his own career and goals, and then uses that as a weapon to berate, insult and diminish her for years in the same household, and in front of strangers. The conclusion to this arc is to reward the serial abuser with a marriage with his victim, something the game considers a sweet and validating conclusion. I think it's one of the worst things the series has narratively ever done, and glorifies Cid's abuses as supposedly endearing character tics that the rest of his ostensible charm is built on.
 
gogglebob

gogglebob

The Goggles Do Nothing
(he/him)
If this was aimed at my original statement, I was trying to convey that they seem to function like an "old married couple". This is, to be clear, not an endorsement of their relationship or its existence, as I know some "old married couples" that are enormously toxic for everyone involved.

It is a bad relationship, but it seems like the kind of relationship that can only exist after years and years of being involved with/inflicted upon each other.

(And to elaborate on that, not all "old married couples" are toxic. To be clear!)
 
Octopus Prime

Octopus Prime

Mysterious Contraption
(He/Him)
When I finally got around to replaying FF7 a couple of years ago,my estimation of every chapter went up quite a lot.

Except Cid. Who is a monster.

At least Jenova and Hojo had the excuses of being antagonists to justify being awful
 
Beowulf

Beowulf

Son of The Answer Man
(He/Him)
I think my headcanons just automatically age-up every jrpg character, because every single one of them is implausibly young if you look at "canon" materials. If they're presented as children, I assume they're 10-12. If they act like "teenagers", I assume late teens/early college age. If they have a military victory under their belts, they're at least in their twenties. Lulu is definitely 30 and any other assumption is bullshit. Auron has to be 40ish, having been dead ten years, but roughly contemporary in age to Yuna's father. (Yuna was 7 when Braska went on his pilgrimage, so I'm not going to buy that Braska wasn't pushing 30.)
 
Fyonn

Fyonn

did their best!
Yeah, extremely agree on that Cid and Shera front. Cid is 100% the character I hope gets changed the most drastically in FF7 Remake.
 
conchobhar

conchobhar

What's Shenmue?
Beowulf said:
Auron has to be 40ish, having been dead ten years, but roughly contemporary in age to Yuna's father. (Yuna was 7 when Braska went on his pilgrimage, so I'm not going to buy that Braska wasn't pushing 30.)
Click to expand...
Auron looks, and acts, noticeably younger than both Braska and Jecht in the flashbacks, so I have no trouble buying him as 35.
 
Pajaro Pete

Pajaro Pete

(He/Himbo)
Like every line out of Bowman's mouth in Star Ocean 2 is about being an old man even though he's at the ripe old age of 27 or so (Ernest is in his 30s and doesn't talk about being an old man, Cliff in Star Ocean 3 acts like a JRPG teenager but he's also in his 30s)

Anyway I mostly ignore official character ages outside of like making a "lol this character is supposed to be (wildly unlikely age)?" reference, except in the case of creepy sexualization, because in those cases I think it's worth pointing out the developers said "This character is 14 years old" and also decided to give her a thong costume.
 
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lincolnic

lincolnic

can stop, will stop
(he/him)
I'm playing Horizon Zero Dawn and Aloy is supposed to be what, 16? 18, maybe? But she constantly speaks and reacts to situations with way more maturity and emotional intelligence than most teenagers would. I feel like she's written like she's at least in her late 20s.
 
Zef

Zef

Find Your Reason
(He/Him)
Discussion about the Cids, Edea, and Shera, reminded me of the question I asked way back in TTv2.0 about the scarcity of playable married couples in healthy relationships where no one died. Even now I have difficulty thinking of many, but I'll admit that's partly my own lack of knowledge outside of Square and Atlus franchises.

JRPG protags being as young as they are, it's natural we wouldn't get many couples, let alone in grownup relationships, but why do so many of the ones we do get (or, the ones I know about) have to be so problematic?

(I want to give props to Dragon Quest V, because AFAIK that one has a whole family, and that's what interests me about playing it, but, well, I haven't played it yet. Do DQ protags skew as young as other franchises, anyway?)
 
Peklo

Peklo

Oh! Create!
(they/them, she/her)
DQ protagonists are all invariably and explicitly, or inferred to be, children, and none go past teenaged. It depends on your interpretation of the art style for each game, usually. V is the exception because the game's narrative is reliant on a specific chronology, so you do have a protagonist in adulthood by the end of it, even if magical contrivances are involved.
 
Beowulf

Beowulf

Son of The Answer Man
(He/Him)
Zef said:
(I want to give props to Dragon Quest V, because AFAIK that one has a whole family, and that's what interests me about playing it, but, well, I haven't played it yet. Do DQ protags skew as young as other franchises, anyway?)
Click to expand...
I feel like in most DQ games, the protagonist isn't given a proper age, but I've generally always assumed "late teens/college age." DQ5 is a rare case because you start with a kid hero, have a time skip to late-teens, then another time-skip until his kids can be kid heroes. I think both time-skips are canonically ten years; but given that your wife--in your party--gets pregnant and gives birth over the course of adventuring, you need to assume that adventures you're there for also take months/years.
 
Beowulf

Beowulf

Son of The Answer Man
(He/Him)
The DQ3 hero explicitly starts their adventure on their 16th birthday. The DQ8 hero is explicitly 18. I think the DQ7 hero might the only one who's explicitly supposed to be a child?
 
Octopus Prime

Octopus Prime

Mysterious Contraption
(He/Him)
The guys from DQ2 and both Builders’ look like kids, but I don’t think their ages are mentioned.

9s is an ageless celestial being, but I don’t think you can make them look like anything besides “Anime Teen”
 
q 3

q 3

here to eat fish and erase the universe
(they/them)
The DQ5 hero (and wife) spend the entire second timeskip as statutes, so they probably should still count as teenagers even by the end (which is weird, they probably can't even take their kids to PG-13 movies).

This thread makes me want a Persona game set in a retirement home. Or maybe a Golden Girls RPG.
 
G

gorha

I think Fire Emblem (the first one to be localized on GBA) was the first game where I was really aware of a disconnect between how old the characters seemed like they should be (early 20s at least) and how old they were officially (mostly early teens). Ironically, I probably would have just assumed they were aged appropriately to be soldiers if Nintendo of America hadn't raised their official ages by a few years, prompting posts about the change on GameFAQs forums.

q 3 said:
This thread makes me want a Persona game set in a retirement home. Or maybe a Golden Girls RPG.
Click to expand...
Persona 4: The Golden Years?
 
MetManMas

MetManMas

Me and My Bestie
(He, him)
Beowulf said:
The DQ3 hero explicitly starts their adventure on their 16th birthday. The DQ8 hero is explicitly 18. I think the DQ7 hero might the only one who's explicitly supposed to be a child?
Click to expand...
The Dragon Quest VII hero is canonically 17. Kid's just short for his age.
 
Regulus

Regulus

Sir Knightbot
gorha said:
I think Fire Emblem (the first one to be localized on GBA) was the first game where I was really aware of a disconnect between how old the characters seemed like they should be (early 20s at least) and how old they were officially (mostly early teens). Ironically, I probably would have just assumed they were aged appropriately to be soldiers if Nintendo of America hadn't raised their official ages by a few years, prompting posts about the change on GameFAQs forums.
Click to expand...

As I recall, Lyn was the only character that they aged up; she went from 15 to 18 in the localized version. Eliwood is 17 in both versions.

The Fire Emblem games generally feel a little better about this to me than a lot of other JRPGs, actually. The main characters are usually in their teens, but they're also usually nobles, so them being placed in positions of power at a young age is not completely out of the ordinary. Additionally, the full roster usually has character ages that run the gamut. Blazing Blade, for example (the aforementioned "Fire Emblem" for GBA) has more playable characters in their 20s than teens. Three Houses is notable, I guess, in that all but 1 of the playable characters is at least 20 by the end of the game. So... while there are a lot of Alexander-esque military prodigies serving as the main characters, most of the characters depicted as soldiers in the series are actually pretty reasonably aged.

Also, the coolest character in the series is in her 30s:

latest


Touching on the problem that was brought up in the FF topic, though: While there are plenty of cool old men characters (Jagen, Mycen, Dozla, etc), the only woman in the series that I can think of that is older than 40 and playable is Nimue in The Binding Blade:

FEFT_Niime.png
 
MetManMas

MetManMas

Me and My Bestie
(He, him)
We seriously need more old ladies both playable and non-playable in games. Big ladies, too.
 
Octopus Prime

Octopus Prime

Mysterious Contraption
(He/Him)
One of the villagers in Ys 8 is an absolutely jacked old lady, and one of the tougher optional fights in the game, and I so wish she was playable instead of any of the DWEEBS you actually get in your party;

O2Tuuox.jpg
 
Regulus

Regulus

Sir Knightbot
MetManMas said:
We seriously need more old ladies both playable and non-playable in games. Big ladies, too.
Click to expand...

Fire Emblem actually has a few playable characters along those lines, too:

Meg (Radiant Dawn):
latest


Candace (Fates):
latest



Candace is a really bizarre case. She's a boss enemy that can be "captured" by Niles or Orochi and eventually convinced to fight on your side, and as a result is not a full-fledged character (no supports, no additional classes, etc). There's some evidence in the game's files that suggests she may have been at one point in development been intended to be a "full" character - there are some blank entries that point to a potential support with Corrin and she has a critical-hit portrait, unlike most of the other capture units.
 
conchobhar

conchobhar

What's Shenmue?
Beowulf said:
The DQ3 hero explicitly starts their adventure on their 16th birthday. The DQ8 hero is explicitly 18. I think the DQ7 hero might the only one who's explicitly supposed to be a child?
Click to expand...
The DQ7 hero is actually 17. A rare (non-creepy) example of a character who's older than they look.
 
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