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New 8-bit and 16-bit games

So I just learned that Paprium is a thing that exists. I haven't been following it, but apparently it's been in development in some shape or form for nearly a decade.


Apparently new cartridges for old consoles have been a thing for a while, although there's a lot more polish-ups of existing games than new games. Would the original publishers start doing this? Retro consoles were a gray market thing for about a decade before Nintendo, Sega, Konami and Sony rolled their own. But modern chipmakers aren't equipped to make chips that are compatible with old consoles, hence the extraordinary time and effort Paprium required. Emulators are popular because they're convenient. Engines like Unity that can make old-style games for new platforms are also convenient and popular.
 

Sarge

hardcore retro gamin'
Well, a lot of that time was mismanagement from Fonzie... but I'm shocked that the game actually turned out pretty well given its troubled history.

Outside of re-releasing older, already coded games, I can't really see the original publishers getting in on it unless it's at exorbitant prices. I'm reminded of Capcom teaming up with iam8bit to re-release Mega Man X, something that apparently hasn't gone that well as it appears that there are still copies to purchase at that price point.

Still, there are other multi-carts, like Retro-Bit putting out the Joe & Mac Collection, or the Jaleco Brawler's Pack, which I find really cool. And those make a bit more sense financially.
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
Nah, Paprium was delayed because the guy in charge (Fonzie) is a bit, er, iconoclastic, and fired the development team. Then decided they needed special chips. And a release party about a year before it was finished. And not to communicate with his backers for much of 8 years

Fonzie's manifesto included in the Paprium packaging gives a feel for what he's like (including alleging the PS4 couldn't run it as it has interlaced graphics or something).

It's also worth noting Paprium doesn't work on the Mega SG. With Fonzie's quotes around that machine it's entirely possible it's deliberate.
 

Sarge

hardcore retro gamin'
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised at all that the same code keeping it from running on a Mega Sg might also be what is interfering with some legitimate Genesis systems from running the game. Either that, or his hardware check for Sega CD/32X hardware is goofed.

I personally tested five of my systems: a Model 1 with the EXT port, three Model 1s without, and a Model 2. All were TMSS systems. All of them worked, but the three later Model 1s required a Sega CD or 32X to be attached to get past the copyright screen.

And yeah, he clearly has no idea what he was talking about with the PS4 stuff. He's an odd, odd dude.

(Actually, re-reading the statement, I think he was probably referring to the fact that a TV that you use for a PS4 likely treats 2D game systems like this as interlaced video, which is correct. English is definitely not his first language.)
 
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Phantoon

I cuss you bad
Ah, that makes more sense. There's no need for PS4 in that sentence though...

I guess you need to be a deeply weird dude to be making hardware pushing Mega Drive games in 2021, it kind of comes with the territory.

For the record, I'd really like to get Paprium. It's just too expensive and I fear when the next batch would come out anyway
 
Call me uncultured, but I think the YouTube videos of Paprium on my 1080p PC monitor look fine. And yes, I can see the dithers but I'd rather see those than lug a CRT around again.
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
Don't let Fonzie hear you say that!

I prefer CRT any day of the week, but it's not the easiest thing to have any more.
 

fanboymaster

(He/Him)
Color me surprised the guy trying to make a tech showcase for hardware finalized in the late 80s has an unhealthy attachment to old tech that starts at its actual merits and then goes deep into some sort of weird worship. Game looks neat and impressive, very not 100+ dollars neat, would probably throw some bucks at it if it was sold on a modern system's storefront in an emulation wrapper.
 
would probably throw some bucks at it if it was sold on a modern system's storefront in an emulation wrapper.
The cartridge release is doing a good job building hype for the eventual digital version. All told, that might be a good business model.

Spielberg, Nolan and Tarantino only shoot on film but their movies make almost all of their money from various digital versions.

Edit: If Paprium makes a lot of money from a digital release, I wonder if it could start a trend? How about more new games for hardware that didn't get a lot of games, like arcade boards or 32X? How about creating whole new 8-bit and 16-bit consoles and games for them? It doesn't matter if the logistics of manufacturing and distributing those consoles and games are hard if they're going to have digital releases eventually. It would give those games a more "authentic" feel than games like Scott Pilgrim or Shovel Knight which don't exactly match the capabilities of old hardware.

And of course, Scott Pilgrim and Shovel Knight are already better than those games will be because their nostalgia didn't grow into an unhealthy obsession.
 
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Phantoon

I cuss you bad
Pier Solar made it across to HD platforms so I guess Paprium will too. I imagine they'll need that cash flow after eight years. It's a shame Project N is dead, I'd love to see what that was. I believe it was an aLttP alike
 

Mr. Sensible

Pitch and Putt Duffer
Most coverage I've read about Paprium's development and release seems like it was horribly mismanaged on Fonzie's part, including not paying the lead artist for their work. And to top it all off, Watermelon just announced their next game and is already taking preorders to the tune of $170 for the basic version, while offering essentially zero information about what this new project actually is. Why would anyone give this dude more money after he shit all over his development team and trolled his own customers?
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
To be fair, they're consistent. Pier Solar took about 4 years to come out. I guess Paprium wasn't that surprising in hindsight, though if you'd asked me a month ago if it would ever come out and achieve most of what they said it would I'd have laughed in your face.

If I'd put money on to Project N I'd be bloody livid though.
 

Mightyblue

aggro table, shmaggro table
(He/Him/His)
One of these years MMX: Corruption will actually get released, but I'm not holding my breath for that one.
 

Regulus

Sir Knightbot
I'm just impressed that the guy is still at it after all this time. It looks pretty robust already.
 

ShakeWell

Slam Master
(he, etc.)
Apparently new cartridges for old consoles have been a thing for a while, although there's a lot more polish-ups of existing games than new games. Would the original publishers start doing this? Retro consoles were a gray market thing for about a decade before Nintendo, Sega, Konami and Sony rolled their own. But modern chipmakers aren't equipped to make chips that are compatible with old consoles, hence the extraordinary time and effort Paprium required. Emulators are popular because they're convenient. Engines like Unity that can make old-style games for new platforms are also convenient and popular.

Limited Run has done a bunch of reissues of old games on the original hardware (SCAT, Shantae, some Star Wars games, etc), and Piko has released several old games under license as well, including weird shit like the Brazilian Genesis port of Duke Nukem 3D. Mega Cat Studios has released several new games on old hardware, some good, some bad, but I would absolutely recommend finding a way to check out Tanzer, if nothing else.
 

RT-55J

space hero for hire
(He/Him + RT/artee)
2019's Xeno Crisis was a great top down arena shooterfor the Genesis with a killer soundtrack. You can get it physically, as a ROM file, or on modern storefronts. Highly recommended.

 

Sarge

hardcore retro gamin'
Oh, yeah, Xeno Crisis is super polished. I finally caved and picked it up for Genesis, but it's also on (or coming to) other systems as well including the Neo Geo.

I also forgot that Retro-Bit released a collector's edition version of Holy Diver, an Irem game akin to Castlevania and one of the hardest games on the system. It also loooooves to eat your jump inputs if you don't know how to avoid it, but even if you do, you will die from it a few times.
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
Is there any consensus on Paprium yet? I know the YouTuber St1ka thinks it's the best 16 bit beat 'em up.
 

ShakeWell

Slam Master
(he, etc.)
Brawler speedrunner Murphagator apparently hated it, and even though Joe from Game Sack said he liked it, his review made me feel like I probably wouldn't.
 

Sarge

hardcore retro gamin'
No consensus that I know of. I see some people saying it's amazing, some saying it's absolutely awful, and a lot in between. I lean more toward the awesome camp, although I have some quibbles with it. Hits need more impact (sound effect is too low/muffled), jump kicks can be too effective at times, grabs are a little wonky (but honestly not that bad), and... well, that's about it. I'd probably give it an 8/10; I've played through the game five or six times at this point, taking different routes.

It won't dethrone SoR2, though. Not a chance.
 

Yimothy

Red Plane
(he/him)
A while back now I got a MiSTer, and I’ve mostly been fiddling with its settings and trying to modify the cores (one pull request accepted, one rejected but apparently I annoyed sorgelig enough that he’s gonna implement the feature I was going for himself even though he doesn’t want it). I decided to actually do some gaming on the thing, and I’ve settled on Knight N Grail, a 2009 Commodore 64 release which does have a physical release (but I bought my ROM copy on itch.io). 2009 is not exactly new, but it’s pretty recent for a C64 game.

I played a fair bit of C64 as a kid at my grandfather’s house, but not much since. The MiSTer goes so far as to replicate the loading times of old hardware (hooray), and seems pretty accurate to my dim memories. The joystick only has one button so you have to use it in conjunction with the keyboard, but I was able to map several keys to the other buttons on my controller and not have to go back and forwards between peripherals, which greatly improves playability. Duplicate mapping up to a button for jumping helps too.

It’s a metroidvania, seemingly a fairly simple one. You wander around a dark castle activating switches to open doors. There are also armour, sword, and max health upgrades, and signs with cryptic messages. The weapon upgrades change the arc of the sword - the default throws it straight forward and it comes back, but I’ve also found a couple that arc like a castlevania axe and one that flies off diagonally upwards. They’ve got elemental names and seem to do different damage to different enemies. The armour also has elemental names and seem to have different properties. I found one by a sign that said it would protect me from rain, though I haven’t seen any rain (come to think of it though, there is damaging water dripping from ceilings all over the place, I should see if it makes me immune to that). There was also a sign before the first boss saying I needed armour to protect me from dust to proceed. I already had the earth armour equipped at that point, so not sure what would have happened without it.

I recently got the double jump, so it’s definitely a proper metroidvania. There’s a sign by a locked door early in the game saying you can go faster once you get through it, which cannot come soon enough because the knight is s-l-o-w. One annoyance in the game is that when you open a door it doesn’t tell you where it is. Usually it’s pretty close to the switch, but in my session just now I triggered a switch and backtracked to the two nearest doors I knew of, neither of which was opened by it, and then died trying to get back to the save point. At which time I learned that death is handled differently once you have a save - when I died in the early game before finding a save point, I was booted to the castle entrance with my progress intact but my money gone. When I died after saving, the only option given was to reload. If I’d known that, I would have been more cautious about going back to the save point straight away instead of checking doors that might have opened. I’ll know for next time, at least.

As usual I’m finding it easier to complain than to praise the game, but I am enjoying it. The limits of the system that it’s on contribute to a sort of lonely aesthetic that works quite well and it’s got the usual loop of seeing something I can’t reach and then giving me the thing I need to get there, balanced by the need to remember where it was and how to get there. There is a map, but it’s very minimal - just the outlines of rooms and where they connect. I think the only type of room highlighted on the map so far is for the area transitions. I’d probably like it better if the doors and whether they were open or not were shown, and maybe the save point, but I think it’s a fairly small game and hopefully I’ll be able to keep that stuff in my head.
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
I've just found out about Haradius Zero, which is soon to be released on the NES. Having seen it, I'm not even sure how it's possible on that hardware. Amazing feat of programming.

 

Yimothy

Red Plane
(he/him)
Regarding Paprium, I got an email from Watermelon:

Keep cool, WM's Magical Game Factory is not closed but we will need your full attention for the next couple of days.

PAPRIUM is the biggest game of its kind and should be sooner or later recognized as a landmark of the genre.
However, this game has been developed, manufactured and shipped at our own expenses.
We can't allow any further #LOCUSTERY to happen: We will fight-back.

With links to a press release and interview. I read the press release and I have no idea what they’re talking about. Piracy? Some kind of distribution deal gone wrong?

with the rise of management by bots, political correctness, quantum computing fabrication, design over function and digital fart ownership, combined with the recent taste for mediocrity from various worldwide monopolistic internet actors such as Paypal, Amazon and Google, it seems harder, if not impossible for companies of our size to get paid for our work

What is going on at watermelon?
 

Sarge

hardcore retro gamin'
Watermelon has been a mess for a while. I guess Fonzie is what's going on there. :p

Supposedly they're going to sell their IPs. Weird. Not sure I buy it. May be a move to try to juice value or more pre-orders for the remaining run of Paprium. I just have no idea at this point. I'm just glad I somehow got my copy.
 

Mightyblue

aggro table, shmaggro table
(He/Him/His)
Why do so many American indie 'retro' game devs appear to have their head firmly lodged in the conspiracy theory hole?
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
Maybe they do, but Watermelon is French.

My guess would be that they have cashflow problems. They spent years developing the game without any more income coming in, and while they'd absolutely sell more copies it's expensive to order tonnes of their custom cartridge design. Meanwhile all the time they're stalling emulators are becoming more capable of playing the game.

Meanwhile, they had issues with Paypal, so that makes sense. Amazon let people sell knockoffs, no questions asked, and even make their own knowing people can't take them on. Maybe that's an issue if they went for Chinese fabrication?
 

Sarge

hardcore retro gamin'
My understanding is that basically all that's left of Watermelon is Fonzie. And he doesn't know how to communicate well, isn't very transparent at all, and suspicion that he wasted all the money and that the PayPal claims are just cover for that. I don't know, though. Maybe he's been telling the truth about all the stuff in the background.

I know that the entire group that was there to release Pier Solar is long gone. That I even managed to get a game out of it at all is frankly shocking.
 

Yimothy

Red Plane
(he/him)
Knight N Grail, a 2009 Commodore 64 release

I finished this. Initially I got the bad ending, but there’s a big clue to how to get the good ending right before you finish the game, so I followed that and got most of the way to the good end before being stumped by my inability to triple jump. Eventually I looked it up - turns out I had found the ability I needed but misunderstood the clue that told me how to use it. The clue says to hold fire, which I had interpreted as telling me not to attack (as in “hold your fire”), or maybe to not act somewhere. So I’d gone to the places I was stuck and tried waiting there, but nothing came of it. Turns out the clue was more literal than I thought: I had to hold the fire button to transform into a bird. Once I knew how to do that, I got the good ending quickly. Quite a good twist ending, too. One that in retrospect was clued pretty strongly in the manual and at least once very directly in the game.
 
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