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Bayonetta: Hale to the Queen

Becksworth

Becksworth

Aging Hipster Dragon Dad
Discuss sexy witch character action games here. Like the upcoming 3rd entry...

...and the surrounding internet drama too. Can't have a new Bayonetta game without that.
 
Daikaiju

Daikaiju

Rated Ages 6+
(He, Him)
Kotaku update on the whole VA thing...

Update 10/18/2022 4:30 p.m. ET: According to a report from Bloomberg, which was later corroborated by Video Games Chronicle, PlatinumGames wanted to bring Hellena Taylor back to Bayonetta 3 and offered to pay somewhere between $3,000 and $4,000 per four-hour session for at least five recording sessions, for a total of at least $15,000. Evidence of Platinum’s offer to Taylor was reviewed and verified by Bloomberg reporter Jason Schreier.

Sources close to the matter also told Bloomberg that negotiations between Taylor and PlatinumGames fell apart after she requested a “six-figure fee” as well as residuals for her work on Bayonetta 3. In an email response to Bloomberg, Taylor stuck by her account of what transpired, saying that the anonymous sources’ account was “an absolute lie” and an attempt at “trying to save their ass and the game.”

When VGC reached out to Taylor for comment, she said “I’d quite like to put this in the [rear view] mirror and leave the whole bloody franchise behind,” adding that she’ll let the claims from her video stand because she “spoke the truth.”
Click to expand...
 
muteKi

muteKi

Geno Cidecity
God, assuming that either a corporation or a terf is telling the truth in a dispute hurts my brain
 
Daikaiju

Daikaiju

Rated Ages 6+
(He, Him)
I'd be lying if I said that statement from Taylor at the end didn't sound like "pay no attention to man behind the curtain!"
 
Paul le Fou

Paul le Fou

24/7 lofi hip hop man to study/relax to
(He)
I admit that I was angry when she first released her video, but even then the timing seemed a bit odd (although I'm not sure earlier would have been a good time for her to do this either). But the longer it goes and the more we find out about it and her, the less I'm inclined to pay much attention or give her much sympathy.

Voice actors deserve to be paid more, absolutely. I hope the conversation can return to and stay focused on that even if her original claims end up being total lies.


As for the game itself, a year ago I started Bayonetta 1 but didn't get very far. I think I'll try again after I finish my current game, see if it clicks. I hear Bayo 2 is better, so maybe if I'm feeling really silly I'll pick that up even if Bayo 1 doesn't click. But why would I do that?

And if I'm REALLY silly, and it gets really good reviews, I might just watch recaps of 1 and 2 and skip right to 3. But that's, as I said, silly!
 
Becksworth

Becksworth

Aging Hipster Dragon Dad
Bayonetta 2 is good. My proof of which is that you can equipment chainsaws to your feet and motor skate around on chainsaws.
 
Sprite

Sprite

(He/Him/His)
muteKi said:
God, assuming that either a corporation or a terf is telling the truth in a dispute hurts my brain
Click to expand...
What’s wild to me is that everyone will report this as he said she said when in fact the accounts fit together pretty neatly, except for the accusations of lying. Assuming everyone is telling the truth from their perspective, I think the timeline went like this:

- Platinum went to Taylor and offered a deal of 3-4k per session for four sessions
- Taylor decided she was worth more than that and asked for six figures plus residuals
- Platinum shrugged and opened auditions
- Taylor appealed to Kamiya that she was too integral to cut out of the franchise
- Kamiya pulled some strings and got her a condolence offer of $4k for one session
- Taylor felt insulted and decided to torpedo the whole thing

I’d be willing to bet there was some communication breakdown in regards to language barriers, particularly between Taylor and Kamiya. If nothing else this situation shows why companies use NDAs.
 
Becksworth

Becksworth

Aging Hipster Dragon Dad
Adrenaline said:
I think Bayonetta 2 is a lot more fun than Bayo 1 on the default difficulty.
Click to expand...

Yeah, one problem with the Switch version of Bayonetta 1 was the difficulty settings were less granular than the Wii U version (i.e. if the the default difficulty is too hard your only other option, at least last I checked, was to play easy with the combo assist on).
 
Becksworth

Becksworth

Aging Hipster Dragon Dad
muteKi said:
God, assuming that either a corporation or a terf is telling the truth in a dispute hurts my brain
Click to expand...
If it is any consolation, Nintendo/Platinum haven't said anything, so it's more TERF vs. respected journalist whose has worked the video game beat for years.
 
Purple

Purple

(She/Her)
I'm pretty well done discussing some creep's effort to jump on the GG gravy train several years too late, but hey, Bayonetta! Fantastic series of games!

Something I really like in the first one in particular is how the optional challenge rooms force you to learn less obvious mechanics one by one. Like if you're not inclined, you can just skip'em, and if you decide to leave sure, but if you commit, yeah, you cannot proceed past this until you learn why there's a taunt button/how to do hair attacks/etc. and mostly you get rewarded with really cool stuff for bothering. That and the movelist on the side training room loading screens. Which... I assume has to be kind of lost in more recent ports where those aren't going to be up for so long. Especially on the Switch.
 
muteKi

muteKi

Geno Cidecity
Becksworth said:
If it is any consolation, Nintendo/Platinum haven't said anything, so it's more TERF vs. respected journalist whose has worked the video game beat for years.
Click to expand...

I guess, but "anonymous representative from the company, reporting to someone now working at the WSJ" isn't that much more reassuring

Sprite said:
What’s wild to me is that everyone will report this as he said she said when in fact the accounts fit together pretty neatly, except for the accusations of lying. Assuming everyone is telling the truth from their perspective, I think the timeline went like this:

- Platinum went to Taylor and offered a deal of 3-4k per session for four sessions
- Taylor decided she was worth more than that and asked for six figures plus residuals
- Platinum shrugged and opened auditions
- Taylor appealed to Kamiya that she was too integral to cut out of the franchise
- Kamiya pulled some strings and got her a condolence offer of $4k for one session
- Taylor felt insulted and decided to torpedo the whole thing

I’d be willing to bet there was some communication breakdown in regards to language barriers, particularly between Taylor and Kamiya. If nothing else this situation shows why companies use NDAs.
Click to expand...

I would certainly buy this argument, as it's one of the few that really makes sense to me. If you're the voice of the title character, a bit weird to not make an ambitious opening bid in negotiations.
 
Oathbreaker

Oathbreaker

The weirdest part of all this for me is Jason Schreier having one of his investigative pieces published on Bloomberg essentially resulting in defending the company. If it were anywhere else I wouldn't bat an eye but there was a full minute of me just staring into the distance thinking about the cliche. My brain doesn't like it. The most surprising part is watching a VA do what no VA ever does and break NDA thus tanking whatever her prospects were for... this mess. I don't even see a goal other than pettiness.

Here's hoping Bayo's entire performance in the game is as good as we've already seen so far. Dunno if I'll even be able to get it this year but I will eventually unless this causes some hidden dark secret about Platinum to be uncovered.
 
Tomm Guycot

Tomm Guycot

(he/him)
(this is not an argument that VA's shouldn't be paid more)

Video game / anime / etc. voice talent is not paid 6 figures for a single role of this scope. It's not done. It's not that she came out with an ambitious bid to value herself - it's that she asked for something entirely out of scale for the work being done. Which she is entitled to do if she wishes, but she never should have expected anything to come of it.

When celebrities do voice work in games, they are not offered that much. They are given the same base rates as "normal" voice actors for voice work, multiplied by whatever is negotiated. But even if six figures means 100,000 (it would usually mean more) that is 20x scale.

She essentially asked "I want to be the highest paid talent in video game history."
 
muteKi

muteKi

Geno Cidecity
She's British and right-wing. Known to follow Caroline Farrow, dunno if anyone's bothered to dig deeper for any others she follows.
 
Phantoon

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
Phew, I thought we were repeating the mistake we just made of accusing people of things on the flimsiest of evidence
 
Becksworth

Becksworth

Aging Hipster Dragon Dad
I believe someone also flat out asked her if Bayonetta supported trans right and she gave a weird, evasive, both sides-esque response.
 
ShakeWell

ShakeWell

Slam Master
(he, etc.)
Tomm Guycot said:
(this is not an argument that VA's shouldn't be paid more)

Video game / anime / etc. voice talent is not paid 6 figures for a single role of this scope. It's not done. It's not that she came out with an ambitious bid to value herself - it's that she asked for something entirely out of scale for the work being done. Which she is entitled to do if she wishes, but she never should have expected anything to come of it.

When celebrities do voice work in games, they are not offered that much. They are given the same base rates as "normal" voice actors for voice work, multiplied by whatever is negotiated. But even if six figures means 100,000 (it would usually mean more) that is 20x scale.

She essentially asked "I want to be the highest paid talent in video game history."
Click to expand...

Michael Hollick got $100k 14 years ago to voice a lead character for the first time, not the third.
 
Regulus

Regulus

Sir Knightbot
That's a really good example of why context matters, actually. After looking into it, it sounds like Hollick spent more than a year doing recording sessions for the game, and also performed motion capture. He was still only paid around 1k per session - a fraction of the hourly rate that they allegedly offered Taylor. He only received as much as he did because he worked significantly more. Also... it's largely immaterial to this situation, but GTA is a significantly more successful franchise than Bayonetta.
 
BEAT

BEAT

LOUDSKULL
(DUDE/BRO)
I am in no way trying to imply that voice actors aren't constantly lowballed, underpaid and mistreated.

But this seems... Bad.
 
Becksworth

Becksworth

Aging Hipster Dragon Dad
Jesus, by her own admission Kamiya went to bat for her and got her a 50% pay raise, and her response was to sic an angry mob on him.
 
Tomm Guycot

Tomm Guycot

(he/him)
ShakeWell said:
Michael Hollick got $100k 14 years ago to voice a lead character for the first time, not the third.
Click to expand...
Not for this scale of work at all. As others have said, he was paid $1k per session - but many many more sessions, with much more work involved (mocap, etc).

Video games are technical and that's why the union rates have so many specifications. There is not a "main character" rate because in some cases it might involve mocap and rewrites and physical acting and all kinds of things.

In other cases all that was finalized in the Japanese version and you're just reading loc dialogue for 2 hours.

Another important thing to keep in mind is I believe the VA community has had 2 major negotiations/strike type situations since this "14 years ago" incident. So all the "we did it guys!" victory tweets VA's have tweeted in the meantime? Those are all IN EFFECT in the rates that Hellena was rejecting. So are Voice Actors underpaid? Maybe. But that is no longer part of the Bayonetta discussion it's a separate issue.

EDIT:
To be direct I guess, I've seen a lot of people going "both can be true: She could have lied AND the evil corporations of PG and Nintendo could have underpaid her"

They're not both true. She was offered well above union scale rate. They tried to play ball.
 
MetManMas

MetManMas

Me and My Bestie
(He, him)
Loads of people should be paid way better than they are for putting the hard work into the various media we love, but every new reveal makes it clearer and clearer that Hellena Taylor is nobody's friend here.
 
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