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  #6481  
Old 07-24-2017, 08:57 AM
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ASandoval ASandoval is offline
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Rewatching that train scene also reminded me:

Is there ever going to be a Spider-man movie where Peter remembers to keep his damn mask on?!*

*Note: I have not watched the Amazing Spider-man movies and am just going to treat them as if they don't exist.
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  #6482  
Old 07-24-2017, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deptford View Post
Still, great hero and villain as 'Characters' if not also as 'Action Scene Sparring Partners' do count for plenty, so I greatly enjoyed parts of it, and there were some quality laughs throughout too, even though I sometimes felt they were a bit too willing to sacrifice tone or theme or characterization for the sake of a quick gag. "I THOUGHT IT WAS THE ANTI-GRAVITY GUN" did get a laugh from me, but it also undermined his competence about the stuff he's supposed to be the professional grown-up, self-taught badass about, and also made it a bit harder to find him quite as scary in the scenes later on where he threatens to kill Peter and everyone he cares about, when the only other time he killed anybody was just a dumb wacky mistake with a punchline after it...so, WAS that laugh worth it in the long run?
To me, the characterization I took away from that was holy shit, this guy just threw someone's life away by accident; what a hard ass terrifying man
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  #6483  
Old 07-24-2017, 09:18 AM
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Rather than serious, I'd say the Raimi movies are earnest and grounded. But, I agree with Deptford's larger point. Homecoming is fluffy and light in comparison.

Westerhof said that the movie's lack of consequences is a moral judgement on Peter, and that his decision at the end is the payoff, but the more I think about it then less I like that. The movie clearly wants that to be the payoff, but it never does the work to get there. If they wanted to do that, the movie would actually have to make some moral judgments against Peter at some point. The only time it's critical of him is when Stark yells at him and takes his suit away after the Ferry scene. And instead of learning his lesson, Peter doubles down on disobeying Stark and putting himself in danger. And then Stark realizes that Peter was right all along and he is rewarded for doing the exact thing he was told not to do. And then he decides not to take the reward, but it's just something that happens instead of growing out of the lessons he learned.

Raimi's Parker was often punished even when he was doing the right thing. Homecoming's Parker is rewarded for everything he does, regardless of whether it's right or wrong. I still like Homecoming a lot because it's charming and fun as hell, but the way the movies and their worlds treat the main character is wildly different.
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  #6484  
Old 07-24-2017, 09:25 AM
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Vaeran Vaeran is offline
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As Marvel Studios effectively owns Tom Holland's ass until he's 40, I'm confident that we're going to see Peter in more complex and difficult moral circumstances in later films. The light, fluffy nature of Homecoming was, I think, partially to serve as a palate cleanser after the dour Amazing Spider-Man 2, and also to firmly establish what Peter Parker is like on a good day before they start filling his calendar with really bad days.
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  #6485  
Old 07-24-2017, 09:37 AM
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Note that his good day still resulted in the implosion of his romantic life (also including his girlfriend's life), created several lifelong enemies out for his blood, and outed him as Spider-Man to most of the important people in his life (one of which can probably put the kibosh on it). And millions of dollars in property damage, various injuries, etc.

I mean, yeah, the movie didn't ruin Peter's life, but to say it didn't have consequences is sort of misleading. It just didn't fridge people for his character's 'benefit'.
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  #6486  
Old 07-24-2017, 09:56 AM
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I mean, point taken, but we're talking about Peter Parker here. When I say "a good day," I'm grading on a curve.
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  #6487  
Old 07-24-2017, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deptford View Post
I sometimes felt they were a bit too willing to sacrifice tone or theme or characterization for the sake of a quick gag. "I THOUGHT IT WAS THE ANTI-GRAVITY GUN" did get a laugh from me, but it also undermined his competence about the stuff he's supposed to be the professional grown-up, self-taught badass about, and also made it a bit harder to find him quite as scary in the scenes later on where he threatens to kill Peter and everyone he cares about, when the only other time he killed anybody was just a dumb wacky mistake with a punchline after it...so, WAS that laugh worth it in the long run?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady View Post
To me, the characterization I took away from that was holy shit, this guy just threw someone's life away by accident; what a hard ass terrifying man
Meanwhile, I took that moment as an early hint that the Vulture isn't pure evil since he wasn't actually planning on killing that guy, even if he's not going to beat himself up over it either.
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  #6488  
Old 07-24-2017, 02:58 PM
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I forget the exact word he used, but didn't he describe himself as a pragmatist? Seems like that fits pretty well with how that particular scene went down.
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