The Return of Talking Time

Go Back   The Return of Talking Time > Talking about media > Talking about television games

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 07-30-2015, 01:09 PM
Voncaster's Avatar
Voncaster Voncaster is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Floating down here
Posts: 1,905
Default

Yes Bed of Chaos is terrible. After that part, I didn't care about Dark Souls anymore, and I just used a guide to get through it. The game became like a 1000 page book that I got to page 750 of. I was going to finish it, regardless of how much fun I was having.

I also looked up one solution in Demon Souls at the very start. I couldn't find the monumental. It turns out the monumental is not the giant monument looking thing in the center or the nexus, nor is it the small stone statue with the candle at the foot of the nexus. It turns out the monumental is some child that looks nothing like a monument. It says the souls wiki that he is shown in a cut scene, I must have been tired or not paying attention when that played.

Last edited by Voncaster; 07-30-2015 at 01:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 07-30-2015, 01:12 PM
Alixsar's Avatar
Alixsar Alixsar is offline
The Shogun of Harlem
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Harlem
Posts: 23,644
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voncaster View Post
Everyone is going to be different, but part of the joy I take from he souls games is figuring out how to advance on my own sans guide. But without using a guide you are likely to miss some areas and PvP is probably something that should be avoided at all costs. Fighting with imperfect information is not in my experience a great idea.
I've used a wiki for every souls game, but mostly for planning builds and deciding which weapon to use, and such. Part of the fun of a Souls game is exploring and finding things, but squeezing all of the numbers out of weapons takes a guide, sometimes. I try not to look at maps and such. It takes the fun out of the "what's around the next corner" aspect of the game.

Dark Souls etc. is a weird mix of Zelda and Castlevania. You've got to explore and find things, and learn enemies and patterns. Using guides kinda lessens the whole experience.

That said, asking people online for help is part of the game too. But it's different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by misadventurous View Post
use the grass crest shield, permanently strapped to your back.
To be fair, when I say "no shields", this is what I mean. I've used that shield on every character, on their back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madhair60 View Post
Might be cool not to post so many spoilers in this first-timer thread, guys.
Pretty much everything people have said is another language to first timers. They'll be fine.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 07-30-2015, 01:12 PM
conchobhar's Avatar
conchobhar conchobhar is offline
[kɾoˈxuːɾ]
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Snowy climes of Canada
Posts: 2,354
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alixsar View Post
Shields are a crutch. Dark Souls is a test of sheer willpower and determination.
I mean, it is a crutch, but what of it? Dark Souls is a tough game, but fetishising that difficulty, and expecting everyone else to get on board the "hardest game ever" train is dumb. One of the best things about it is that there are so many different ways to get through the game, and using shields is just as valid a choice. I'd say it's practically the only choice if playing with heavy armour.

The thing is, I basically agree with you. I'm playing Dark Souls II for the first time right now, and I thought it might be interesting, after two games of playing strength-build tank knights, to play something more agile. And I'm having a blast; dodge rolling makes things more tense and makes counterattacks easier, as well as just feeling more fun. But I do drop back to my shield every now and then, and I really can't fault someone else for just playing through the game like that entirely.

I mean, I get that you're being a little facetious here and playing it up, but that seems to me like it's just going to give the wrong impression to someone who's just starting out!
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 07-30-2015, 01:25 PM
Diplo's Avatar
Diplo Diplo is offline
Binglebottom
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
This game is going to beat the shit out of you and it's going to make you upset.
"Let me tell you what sort of emotions you're going to feel."

: \

I can remember a few instances of Dark Souls making me frustrated, but my overall experience was characterized by wonder with the world.

Issun: The most important thing in initially approaching Dark Souls is taking the time to consider your surroundings. People build up these games like they're the most soul-crushing experiences ever, but they're so, so, so manageable if you have a cautious stance towards each new space.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alixsar View Post
1) Don't use a shield.
Oh, bullshit.

Use a shield if you want to. Use whatever you have at your disposal. Enlist helpers. There is no shame in making use of what the game offers.

Stats don't matter much. You should only obsess over them if you're trying to make a specific type of character. Otherwise, level up the basic attributes as you need to (Vit, End, Str, and Dex) and level up the others if you wanna use a magic spell and don't have enough Int or Faith. Resistance is ignorable. That's it. Nothing more.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 07-30-2015, 01:30 PM
Alixsar's Avatar
Alixsar Alixsar is offline
The Shogun of Harlem
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Harlem
Posts: 23,644
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by conchobhar View Post
I mean, I get that you're being a little facetious here and playing it up, but that seems to me like it's just going to give the wrong impression to someone who's just starting out!
So yeah.

My hardline stance of "use dodge rolls, don't block or use shields, don't summon phantoms" that I've taken over the years has upset a lot of people in the past. All of the usual people who post in the Souls game threads and I have gone back and forth over it many times. My stance is that these features, while helpful for getting someone through a rough patch, cheapen the overall experience.

To me, Dark Souls is all about learning enemy patterns, knowing when your windows are, pressing at the right times and backing off at the right times. Shields/heavy armor kind of do away with all of that. You just kinda stand there and it's fine because you're hella strong. It's a different way of playing the game, but to me it kinda fundamentally breaks the game's core dynamics. The same goes for summoning phantoms, since a lot of bosses' AI just simply don't know how to handle two/three targets at once.

I think a good analogy would be how in Mario 3D Land/World, when you die a lot, they give you that super powerup that lets you essentially skip the level? You never overcome that obstacle, you just skipped it. I feel like just because features are in a game, using them isn't necessarily a good idea, and I always tell people not to use them and to stick to it. That, to me, is what Dark Souls is all about. If you're stuck and frustrated, but you keep at it, get slightly better each time, and then flip off your monitor and spike your controller because FUCK YOU I DID IT

But you're not wrong; this game is hard and using whatever tools the game gives you is fair and fuck it who cares as long as you win. I don't think this way, but I get that I'm in the minority and most players are really only concerned with Making Progress™ and Beating The Game™ and that's fine. Those things I don't like about the game Aren't For Me™ and thatch fine. I'd rather beat the game my way even if it's harder, than take (what I view as) shortcuts just because I can.

That still doesn't mean I'm not going to suggest it every time, though.

See also: that time I said that playing Fire Emblem Awakening on Hard/Classic was the best way to play it, and everyone reacted essentially the same way as what's happening right now.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 07-30-2015, 02:05 PM
YangusKhan's Avatar
YangusKhan YangusKhan is offline
does the Underpants Dance
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 5,477
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alixsar View Post
You just kinda stand there and it's fine because you're hella strong.
That's...not actually how it plays out at all? Shields aren't some kind of get-out-of-shit-free card, because they still have a learning curve of "how do I shield properly?" That's why it drains so much of your stamina when you block an attack. You think it cheapens the experience by making it way easier than it actually makes it. It doesn't make it that much easier.

But whatever, this thread is already clogged way too much with info dumps and tips, so I don't wanna get into that again.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 07-30-2015, 02:34 PM
spineshark's Avatar
spineshark spineshark is offline
forbidden noise
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: cube hell
Posts: 11,653
Default

i wish brickroad were here because he was pretty good at arguing the "play the game however you enjoy it" side beyond the point of utter tedium

it's a really long game and there's a ton to see so there's no point in holding yourself back for some kind of platonic ideal, especially if you're not sure you're gonna want to play the whole thing again. because, uhh, you really might not
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 07-30-2015, 02:44 PM
Tefari's Avatar
Tefari Tefari is offline
contains words & diagrams
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 9,980
Default

Find what works for you and run with it. My very first run through any Souls game was a Drake Sword Lightning Spear Havel's Armor Giant Shield Pyromancer cheeseball and I fucking loved every second of it. The game's hard enough as it is that you don't need to give yourself an arbitrary challenge run your first time through.

People are taking Alixsar about 90% too seriously. He's right that leaning too heavily on your shield doesn't work because lots of stuff can break right through anything that isn't a great shield but shielding is still a really useful tool so yeah.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 07-30-2015, 02:47 PM
misadventurous's Avatar
misadventurous misadventurous is offline
angry little slice of pie
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 212
Default

Yeah it is frustrating how much of the talk re: these games is focused on the "hardcore challenge" since the real draw & strength is building your own adventure out of what the game (doesn't) show(s) you. the difficulty is just part of the atmosphere. Once you get your bearings, Dark Souls is only as hard as you want it to be.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 07-30-2015, 03:07 PM
jpfriction's Avatar
jpfriction jpfriction is offline
Outraged!
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Almost, but not quite, in ND
Posts: 3,191
Default

Actually Alixsar, the entire game is built around you shield-parrying and doing ripostes. Quit playing the baby way you baby.



Dodge-rolls are for babies. I'm super serious.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 07-30-2015, 03:11 PM
aturtledoesbite's Avatar
aturtledoesbite aturtledoesbite is offline
hi there
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Lafayette, LA
Posts: 15,107
Default

guys if shields are so great, why not use two
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 07-30-2015, 03:12 PM
spineshark's Avatar
spineshark spineshark is offline
forbidden noise
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: cube hell
Posts: 11,653
Default

they don't really let you use two of anything until dark souls 2. that's like the one good part of that game

double greatshield play in that game is horrid but hilarious. 2-handing one shield is pretty funny too
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 07-30-2015, 03:13 PM
pointzeroeight's Avatar
pointzeroeight pointzeroeight is offline
A real human being
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 2,040
Default

I'm pretty sure you could in demons souls. Dual tower shields was a thing.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 07-30-2015, 03:16 PM
spineshark's Avatar
spineshark spineshark is offline
forbidden noise
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: cube hell
Posts: 11,653
Default

wait, what does that even do?

i just remember trying to dual wield daggers in demon's and being so disappointed that the game had literally zero mechanics for it, even trying to alternate hands is just slower than comboing with one hand
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 07-30-2015, 03:21 PM
pointzeroeight's Avatar
pointzeroeight pointzeroeight is offline
A real human being
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 2,040
Default

Nothing beyond two shields. It was just a thing you could do.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 07-30-2015, 04:57 PM
Alixsar's Avatar
Alixsar Alixsar is offline
The Shogun of Harlem
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Harlem
Posts: 23,644
Default

You can dual wield shields in Dark Souls 2. It's actually pretty strong.



Quote:
Originally Posted by jpfriction View Post
Actually Alixsar, the entire game is built around you shield-parrying and doing ripostes. Quit playing the baby way you baby.

Dodge-rolls are for babies. I'm super serious.
I'm super serious too...that you're A DUMB DUMB OHHHHHHHH

BURNNNNNNNN

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tefari View Post
People are taking Alixsar about 90% too seriously
I think 90% is being a little generous. One would think that, like, after 2 or 3 years of talking about this and continuously exaggerating more and more each time it comes up...like, ya know, you'd think people would get it? But that's okayyyyyyyyyyy
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 07-30-2015, 05:11 PM
Galadrome's Avatar
Galadrome Galadrome is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: The Capital of Canada
Posts: 2,322
Default

In Dark Souls I the Actual Best Strategy is to use a shield and parry everything. Parrying is supah easy in DSI; once you nail the timing you can wreck the entirety of the game. Dodge rolling is best against most bosses (Unless you can parry them) and dual wield. I can't really think of any situation where shielding is better than good spacing and dodge rolling.

In DSII I could literally never figure out how to parry properly, unfortunately. Roll against everything.

Shields suck.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 07-30-2015, 05:12 PM
Falselogic's Avatar
Falselogic Falselogic is offline
Threadcromantosaurus Rex
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: California
Posts: 29,630
Default

well, for a short time, this thread had the potential to be helpful!

so fleeting...
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 07-30-2015, 05:17 PM
Tangent Vector's Avatar
Tangent Vector Tangent Vector is offline
y cant axiom crawl?
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: The Abyss
Posts: 2,746
Default

Getting started in Souls is all about learning how much you have to lose, how much each death can cost you, and how to proceed cautiously and carefully while minimizing risk.
.
Getting good at Souls is all about learning how little you have to lose, how little any one death can set you back, and how to be reckless and aggressive when it matters.

Also:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alixsar View Post
To me, Dark Souls is all about learning enemy patterns, knowing when your windows are, pressing at the right times and backing off at the right times.
Dark Souls is, first and foremost, a game about observation. This applies across combat, exploration, and narrative. It expects the player to pay attention, notice details, and make connections.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 07-30-2015, 06:32 PM
Alixsar's Avatar
Alixsar Alixsar is offline
The Shogun of Harlem
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Harlem
Posts: 23,644
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falselogic View Post
well, for a short time, this thread had the potential to be helpful!

so fleeting...
Nobody's posted with things they're stuck on yet, ya goober!
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 07-30-2015, 06:57 PM
R.R. Bigman's Avatar
R.R. Bigman R.R. Bigman is offline
Family Man
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Knoxville! Knoxville! Knoxville!
Posts: 8,911
Default

I can't believe this little nugget hasn't been brought up yet: Do not attack non hostile NPC's!
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 07-30-2015, 08:23 PM
misadventurous's Avatar
misadventurous misadventurous is offline
angry little slice of pie
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 212
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falselogic View Post
well, for a short time, this thread had the potential to be helpful!

so fleeting...
My heart is breaking...
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 07-30-2015, 09:18 PM
Issun's Avatar
Issun Issun is online now
Thwomp Boyardee
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sad Lesbian Capital of the World
Posts: 13,061
Default

Spent nearly two hours just trying to get as far as I could through the cemetery in Firelink. Still picking up the ins and outs. Mostly luring the skeleton mooks away from spawning points so if I die I can get my souls back without having to wade through fights. The problem is when I end up having to fight two at once I get overwhelmed. When one is vulnerable, the other is striking. And then I have to run away but one of the skeletons seems to always magically speed up and shank me in the back.

Fighting them on cliffs seems to work best, though, because half the time they end up falling off.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 07-30-2015, 09:34 PM
Alixsar's Avatar
Alixsar Alixsar is offline
The Shogun of Harlem
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Harlem
Posts: 23,644
Default

Mega Protip: you're going the wrong way.

Don't worry, we all did the same thing.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 07-30-2015, 09:38 PM
LancerECNM's Avatar
LancerECNM LancerECNM is offline
Not A Low-Level Life Form
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Space Virginia
Posts: 7,483
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Issun View Post
Spent nearly two hours just trying to get as far as I could through the cemetery in Firelink. Still picking up the ins and outs. Mostly luring the skeleton mooks away from spawning points so if I die I can get my souls back without having to wade through fights. The problem is when I end up having to fight two at once I get overwhelmed. When one is vulnerable, the other is striking. And then I have to run away but one of the skeletons seems to always magically speed up and shank me in the back.

Fighting them on cliffs seems to work best, though, because half the time they end up falling off.
Blunt weapons will help against skeletons dramatically. But more importantly, you're going the wrong way -- the cemetery leads to a midgame area. You can do it early, and there are good reasons to do so, but I wouldn't suggest it for a first timer.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 07-30-2015, 09:38 PM
aturtledoesbite's Avatar
aturtledoesbite aturtledoesbite is offline
hi there
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Lafayette, LA
Posts: 15,107
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alixsar View Post
Mega Protip: you're going the wrong way.

Don't worry, we all did the same thing.
Well, that could be argued if he wants the zweihander or winged spear. But if he gets that, then yeah, nothing left that way for him except sadness.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 07-30-2015, 10:01 PM
spineshark's Avatar
spineshark spineshark is offline
forbidden noise
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: cube hell
Posts: 11,653
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alixsar View Post
You can dual wield shields in Dark Souls 2. It's actually pretty strong.
huh, is the clap unique to that set? i tried messing with various kinds of shield attacks and honestly they all just seemed too slow and short-ranged to be practical on a regular basis (of course when the alternative is the super broken double blunt stagger i guess a lot of things seem weak)

and they didn't hit very hard and trying to upgrade them was a pain in the ass too
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 07-30-2015, 10:07 PM
Loki's Avatar
Loki Loki is offline
#deadfish2017
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 14,378
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alixsar View Post
Don't worry, we all did the same thing.
Not true! I went to New Londo.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 07-30-2015, 10:26 PM
Issun's Avatar
Issun Issun is online now
Thwomp Boyardee
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sad Lesbian Capital of the World
Posts: 13,061
Default

Got a little ways into Undead Burg before calling it a night. The first clue I was going the right way was that the enemies were exponentially easier.

Edit: Two other things.

1) Is there any point in ever becoming unhollowed if you're not planning on interacting with other players?

2) Are there any glitches in the Steam version I should be wary of?

Last edited by Issun; 07-30-2015 at 11:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 07-30-2015, 11:57 PM
Awkward Grunt's Avatar
Awkward Grunt Awkward Grunt is offline
Prancing in the rain
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Maryland, right next to that capital of the U.S. thing.
Posts: 709
Default

1) If you want to upgrade your bonfire by spending humanities you need to be human to do it. each bonfire is upgraded individually, and each stage gives you 5 extra flasks up to a max of 20 whenever you rest at that bonfire.

2) unless you're using DSfix and have unlocked your FPS from 30, then there are no PC specific glitches.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
crutches , dark as balls , dark souls , from software , hell of dark , hold with both hands , praise the sun , secret best zelda , this is my drill , you defeated , you died

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Your posts ©you, 2007