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  #1081  
Old 02-24-2017, 11:32 AM
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Zef - those are covers from 2015. I knew something was odd when I scrolled down and was like "wait, why is Grayson back in the lineup?"

(Also, y'know... Darwyn Cooke has a cover there.)
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  #1082  
Old 02-24-2017, 02:14 PM
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Shit, my heart caught in my throat when I recognized Darwyn's work.
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  #1083  
Old 02-24-2017, 08:44 PM
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I need that on my wall
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  #1084  
Old 02-25-2017, 09:51 AM
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Anyone else gonna check out the new Bug the Forager mini?

I <3 Allred and The Bug's story in New Gods was, to me, the most compelling and interesting part of New Gods, so this will be the first Big Two comic I'm grabbing off the stands in some years.
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  #1085  
Old 02-25-2017, 10:55 AM
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I most likely will be. I like even second rate Kirby knock offs, and I'm sure Allred will deliver work that will clear that low bar. Plus, all of the other Young Animal books have been varying degrees of good.
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  #1086  
Old 02-27-2017, 06:37 PM
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RB, I finally broke down and read through Flintstones. It is indeed brilliant.

ARE YOU HAPPY NOW.
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  #1087  
Old 02-27-2017, 06:48 PM
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I'm glad you enjoyed it. I sincerely hope DC lets Russell keep doing things like Flintstones and Prez and Snagglepuss forever.
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  #1088  
Old 03-03-2017, 12:33 PM
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I think DC's got something with this Superman event. Even if starting it off by pretending to erase Jon from continuity is a bit of a weird tease since Super Sons just started, like, last week.
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  #1089  
Old 06-15-2017, 10:19 AM
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Just found out that the Wildstorm anniversary book will be a month late.

Perfect.
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  #1090  
Old 06-15-2017, 11:22 AM
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Staying true to the brand.
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  #1091  
Old 06-17-2017, 09:56 AM
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I've never been into DC and am just getting back into comics. I'm reading this thread from the beginning and I have: a question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by upupdowndown View Post
It's hyperbole to say that DC is uniformly terrible - there are totally bright spots in their output! many of which have been mentioned in this very thread! - but yeah, compared to Marvel I find them overly infatuated with confusing "maturity" for "grimdark 'n boobs", and their neverending visits to the continuity reset well aren't wearing well. When I look at the past 5 years or so in comics, Marvel just seems more with it and more in tune with who they are as a publisher, and DC seems more try-hard and all over the place.
Does this broad one-page-of-the-forum wide consensus still hold? (I know not everyone on that page agreed! I'm sure you did not) Was Marvel getting its ass kicked in terms of sales back then or is that more of a recent thing?

DC comics. What's up with that?

Thank you for your time and patience.
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  #1092  
Old 06-17-2017, 10:10 AM
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DC is hit-or-miss with me. I think one of the problems is, they have the original superheroes. The archetypes - the guys who were defined by their powers far moreso than their personalities. Marvel comics were always defined by mashing up superpowers with interpersonal conflicts. So DC sometimes I think tries too hard to force "real life" personas onto these legacy characters, and deflect that old silver age goofiness, which is bad.

I don't keep up 100% with comic stuff. But what I gather is that Marvel has done a much better job going forward into the 21st century with things like representation and diversity, while DC seems to get stuck in a rut of conflating maturity and progress with violence and swearing.

But you still get lots of great mature stories like Greg Rucka's Batwoman and Gail Simone's Secret Six, Birds of Prey, and Wonder Woman. And then you have things like All-Star Superman which tells a beautiful and mature story while embracing the crazy and ridiculous past elements of the Superman comic universe.

Still I don't think DC will ever have a more perfect version of their characters than the ones in the DCAU.
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  #1093  
Old 06-17-2017, 10:13 AM
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Marvel and DC are almost always at opposite ends of the fulcrum. When ones good, the other is bad, and vice versa.

Right now DC has a lot of fun and interesting things going on, so, naturally, Marvel decides to make Captain America a nazi.

And so the great cosmic dance continues.
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  #1094  
Old 06-17-2017, 11:10 AM
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What are Image, Boom, and IDW's places in that dance?
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  #1095  
Old 06-17-2017, 11:19 AM
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Boom and Inage are Hanging out near the snacks, trying to cram shrimp in their mouth discreetly.

IDW is playing Candy Crush on their phone.
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  #1096  
Old 06-17-2017, 11:58 AM
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IDW is getting a bad case of snack envy. I'm still not sold in their shared HasBro' Universe and their grim dark approach to most titles (MASK as a hunting unit against Cybertronian comes to mind)

Their Transformers comics are so good, though, partly because unlike the other Big Boys they don't care as much about keeping a status quo. Megatron switching sides and Starscream getting everything he wished for have been amazing plot generators and those are only two of several plates the writers keep spinning.
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  #1097  
Old 06-17-2017, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dracula View Post
I don't keep up 100% with comic stuff. But what I gather is that Marvel has done a much better job going forward into the 21st century with things like representation and diversity
At least with LGBTQ characters, this is pretty much exactly the opposite of the case. Neither are amazing, but DC is much better.

The new Iceman book is maybe a step forward, but I don't know much about it.
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  #1098  
Old 06-17-2017, 04:36 PM
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First issue wasn't as interesting as I'd like. Second issue... comes out on Wednesday.

Anyway, was DC not doing better than Marvel two years ago? How badly is Marvel doing now?
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  #1099  
Old 06-17-2017, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NavelsAreNeat View Post
I've never been into DC and am just getting back into comics. I'm reading this thread from the beginning and I have: a question.
Does this broad one-page-of-the-forum wide consensus still hold? (I know not everyone on that page agreed! I'm sure you did not) Was Marvel getting its ass kicked in terms of sales back then or is that more of a recent thing?

DC comics. What's up with that?

Thank you for your time and patience.
The cycle has turned the other way for now, with DC putting out actually mature (read Omega Men and The Flintstones) and fun books (Batman just did a crossover with Swamp Thing titled "The Brave and The Mold") while Marvel keeps tripping itself. In a year or so it will likely flip back.

As long as Dan Didio has a say in things DC will be in danger of falling back on the overwrought grittiness that he seems to love as an editorial direction See The New 52 and Countdown, or better yet don't.
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  #1100  
Old 06-17-2017, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by estragon View Post
At least with LGBTQ characters, this is pretty much exactly the opposite of the case. Neither are amazing, but DC is much better.

The new Iceman book is maybe a step forward, but I don't know much about it.
I'm glad to hear this. I've been out of the loop for a while in this regard.
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  #1101  
Old 06-17-2017, 06:56 PM
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Here's an interesting take.

Via Polygon

The DCEU has a problem — everybody likes Wonder Woman

Quote:
That has more to do with theme than it does with any specific character. Wonder Woman is optimistic. Gal Godot’s Diana wants to be a hero. She leaves Themyscira to be a hero, and while her faith is tested, her resolve ultimately holds. She climbs out of the trenches in WWI because there are human lives at stake and she’s going to protect them. Hers is a movie about a superhero making the choice to be a superhero, without any expectation of praise or reward.

That’s more or less the elevator pitch for superheroes as a concept, but it’s strangely at odds with everything we’ve seen from the DCEU thus far. Prior to Wonder Woman, DC’s output included two grim deconstructions of Superman and a third film about supervillains. All three have been skeptical of altruism as a concept, as if the most implausible thing about superhero movies is the hero’s willingness to help other people.
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  #1102  
Old 06-19-2017, 08:17 AM
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It's an interesting take, but it fails to recognise that of the three prior DC movies, (a) two were by Zack Snyder, and if you expected anything else you were foolish, and (b) one was freaking SUICIDE SQUAD and honestly was far less dark / more hopeful and optimistic than the comic version. Something tells me that James Wan isn't going to turn out a Snyderesque Aquaman given that the last time someone gave him a big budget, we got Furious 7.

(Mind you, 80s Suicide Squad might've been the best book DC published in that era. That vs. Titans vs. Swamp Thing is a very interesting discussion.)

Quote:
Anyway, was DC not doing better than Marvel two years ago? How badly is Marvel doing now?
Marvel's sort of stabilized over the past couple of months, but they had a spectacularly bad 2016 (by their standards; they still sold more books than anyone, but they had a steep, steep decline). Their more recent problems are more that the progressive Tumblr-based audience they'd so carefully cultivated over the last couple of years turned against them, but that's more of a PR issue than anything of significance.

I don't know if Marvel's overall line was any better two years ago, but DC's was demonstratably a LOT worse. I think we're almost exactly two years removed from the disastrous "Convergence" event that they published as cover while they moved offices from NY to LA, which was probably the low point. They've done a lot of retrenching since then, and it's paid off in a much-improved overall line.

And as long as IDW keeps publishing Hama's Real American Hero, they can have Bruce Sato decapitate Matt Trakker by pulling him apart with Lifter for all I care. The entire company is basically a vehicle for publishing Larry Hama stories (and whatever More than Meets the Eye turned into) as far as I'm concerned.
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  #1103  
Old 06-19-2017, 08:27 AM
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I think Marvel's been bleeding talent and they need to figure that out. A lot of their best, or at least most popular writers from the last decade like Brubaker, Fraction, Gillen, DeConnick, and Remender have all left super hero books.
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  #1104  
Old 06-19-2017, 08:32 AM
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Yeah, Marvel doesn't seem to have anything to throw at creators who want to go elsewhere at the moment. DC always has Vertigo or whatever deals they're throwing at Snyder (he implied this week that there's some new format they're allowing him to play around with before anyone else).

Part of Marvel's PR problem is that they talked quite a bit of shit about artists not mattering anymore. Which while not directly impacting writers, means that writers who aren't part of the inner circle like Bendis or Slott are always going to be looking over their proverbial shoulders for the moment that Marvel decides they don't matter either.
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  #1105  
Old 06-19-2017, 06:06 PM
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To add to the cyclical nature of these things, one thing to remember when considering Marvel's comicbook output is that the movie-side of Marvel is basically cannibalizing and destroying its comic side. Something that likely won't change anytime in the near future. This is manifesting in multiple ways, namely:

1) The most enduring and historically popular Marvel comics are being systematically undermined or straight up killed off. The X-Men, Spiderman, and anything else that the movie rights Disney doesn't control are taking a backseat to The Avengers. Hell, Fantastic Four is basically dead. There's a reason why the rights to those characters/franchises got sold in the late 90s and not the Avengers, because those are their most interesting properties and the Avengers is pretty boring.

2) When Disney bought out Star Wars, Marvel shifted a LOT of their editorial focus onto making a buttload of Star Wars comics, not something you'd think of traditionally as "Marvel Comics". IIRC, Star Wars comics are overwhelmingly the best selling comics by Marvel atm.

DC similarly exerts pressure on its comics side to promote whatever movie-thing is going to be happening next, but it's rarely at the expense of its most popular comics doesn't undermine them by doing so. It's the Dial H's and Legion Losts that get the axe over at DC.
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  #1106  
Old 06-19-2017, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
2) When Disney bought out Star Wars, Marvel shifted a LOT of their editorial focus onto making a buttload of Star Wars comics, not something you'd think of traditionally as "Marvel Comics". IIRC, Star Wars comics are overwhelmingly the best selling comics by Marvel atm.
Marvel published over 100 issues of Star Wars comics between '77 and '86. They tried to get the license back from Dark Horse during the 90s, too.

Comics aren't dying. More people care about superheroes than ever before. It's a goddamn golden age for that stuff. I think if more people actually cared about "comics" (as an actual medium), this wouldn't really be a topic of discussion because those people would be supporting artists rather than lamenting what they see as a lost opportunity to give their support to multimillion dollar corporate franchises.

As someone who doesn't read any current hero stuff, I feel fine about it. The popularity of the hero flicks, their respective comic book lines be damned, really does seem to have broadened the popular interest in comics. There's a wider variety of stuff available than ever! It's great!
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  #1107  
Old 06-19-2017, 07:00 PM
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GI Joe and Transformers both outdid Star Wars at Marvel (several times over in Joe's case) but that doesn't make them Marvel Books.

Heck, Transformers even got the traditional fourth issue Spider Man guest appearance! Ain't nothing more Marvel than that.
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  #1108  
Old 06-20-2017, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
1) The most enduring and historically popular Marvel comics are being systematically undermined or straight up killed off. The X-Men, Spiderman, and anything else that the movie rights Disney doesn't control are taking a backseat to The Avengers. Hell, Fantastic Four is basically dead.
I'm not sure what you mean because there are 6 current Avengers books (including Champions and Ultimates) to 10 current/upcoming X books and 10 current/upcoming Spider books. Fantastic Four is dead because nobody ever bought it.

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Originally Posted by ghosttaster View Post
Comics aren't dying.
Eh they kinda are
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  #1109  
Old 06-20-2017, 08:29 AM
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Comics aren't dying. More people care about superheroes than ever before.
Those are two unrelated thoughts-- the massive success of the Marvel movies is not affecting periodical or trade sales as far as anyone can tell. Marvel sales are slumping so hard they need to goose their circulation numbers by literally shipping retailers more copies than they paid for, and DC has had to cancel and relaunch their entire line TWICE this decade to keep the numbers up-- a strategy that Marvel has been using for years which seems to have hollowed out their readership. See "Colin Spacetwinks" (yes, really) or Comics Beat's analyses for details.

Now, none of those figures include digital sales, because no one releases those figures, but even if exactly as many people buy digital as do physical, those still aren't blockbuster numbers. And Marvel/DC outsell every other publisher!

(in the direct market, in periodicals, but even with caveats, Fantagraphics et al ain't selling millions either)

Quote:
As someone who doesn't read any current hero stuff, I feel fine about it. The popularity of the hero flicks, their respective comic book lines be damned, really does seem to have broadened the popular interest in comics. There's a wider variety of stuff available than ever! It's great!
Available? Hell yes, and I love it. But selling, and selling sustainably? Unless you're talking about Raina Telgemeier, citation needed.

Last edited by Joe McGuffin; 06-20-2017 at 08:44 AM.
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  #1110  
Old 06-21-2017, 02:41 PM
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RESET THE CLOCK.

Via the Mary Sue

DC Has No Idea What We Love About Wonder Woman, Introduces New Comic Arc About Diana’s Brother
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