The Return of Talking Time

Go Back   The Return of Talking Time > Talking about media > Talking about TV and film

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #9721  
Old Today, 08:36 AM
Büge's Avatar
Büge Büge is offline
Safe Space
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TO, ON, CA
Posts: 14,394
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
The design for Klingons was even in flux during TOS. In the first season, they were just regular looking honky humans in slightly different pajamas than Starfleet ones.

That's from the second season episode "The Trouble With Tribbles".

Quote:
Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
By the third season they had blackface, crazy eyebrows & facial hair, and a cromagnon brow.

That's from "Errand of Mercy", which is the first appearance of the Klingons.



And this is from "Day of the Dove" which is the third season.

It seems to me that, for one reason or another, they simply neglected the heavier makeup for Season 2. Probably budget reasons, since they were doing a lot more elaborate costumes and sets and couldn't spare the shoe polish.
Reply With Quote
  #9722  
Old Today, 08:44 AM
Positronic Brain's Avatar
Positronic Brain Positronic Brain is offline
Out Of Warranty
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Barcelona, Spain
Posts: 8,437
Default

*snaps fingers* That's what is so weird about Discovery's klingons - they don't have beards. They look too generic without them, frankly. What was wrong with the beards?

Pls, Star Trek, bring back klingon beards. And throw in some moustaches, please. Bonus points if they can twirl them.
Reply With Quote
  #9723  
Old Today, 09:14 AM
Traumadore's Avatar
Traumadore Traumadore is online now
An Animal of Joy
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Twin Cities
Posts: 7,819
Default

Yeah, Saru and Michael were great foils so far, looking forward to more of that. I don't think Trek has had a character with an ultra-cautious method before, so it's fun to see how it plays off the usual archetypes. Is Doug Jones really that tall and skinny? I thought he was animated at first.

Captain Georgiou was fantastic, but it was pretty obvious in the trailer that she wasn't going to make it far into the show since her ship was not the titular Discovery. I am disappointed that the new captain is going to be Another White Guy because the trailers also made it seem like Michael was going to get her own command very soon. Obviously that will be a long time coming, if ever. Jason Isaacs is great though, and it looks like his character will be a little more complex like Sisko.

Stupid minutia:

Yes, holograms were very unnecessary, but maybe they wanted people acting with one another rather than talking to screens. It's a valid experiment I guess, but then there's hilarious stuff like Sarek's 'gram walking over and leaning on a table in the briefing room. What!?

The long-range mind meld does have precedence, as Tuvok uses a similar technique at a range of up to 3-4 light years before losing the connection. Obviously this is a totally different scale.

They never explain how they recovered Michael, after going to great lengths to justify why the only possible scouting option was a single crew member in a suit. I guess they could have sent a couple other people out on a spacewalk to get her.

Light travelling faster than light! This shit shows up in Star Trek '09 and The Force Awakens too, and it drives me up the wall. Sarek says they already have reports of the light from the beacon when Michael calls him, even though Captain Georgiou literally just said the nearest Federation outpost was 3 light years away.
Reply With Quote
  #9724  
Old Today, 09:40 AM
Paul le Fou's Avatar
Paul le Fou Paul le Fou is offline
We just don't know.
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 18,551
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parish View Post
OK, I watched "Tuvix." Alas, I am too tired to process my thoughts at the moment. I can see why people get all angried up about it, but it clearly was meant to spark controversy and debate, so… mission accomplished.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chud_666 View Post
I like that he was deTuvix'd by character action rather than plot contivance.
I'm not doing a rewatch, nor have I recently, but my friend likes to host Terrible Trek Nights where she curates some of the worst episodes Trek has to offer, and last time we watched Tuvix.

The thing that infuriated me about that episode (and then stuck with me) was the ending, because it cuts off at the exact moment that the whole conceit and central conflict of the episode was about to get interesting. So they break him back apart into Neelix and Tuvok and... neither of them has even a single line of dialogue afterwards. There's no indication whether they even remember being combined, much less what they might have thought about staying combined or being split, the opinions and choices they might have had or made regarding the unique dilemma... Nope. They're back to normal and Janeway walks out into the hallway like "welp, that settles that," roll credits, without a single moment of reflection or fallout. Which is where, I insist again, things would have really gotten interesting.
Reply With Quote
  #9725  
Old Today, 09:51 AM
chud_666's Avatar
chud_666 chud_666 is offline
120 Days
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Salo
Posts: 7,802
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul le Fou View Post
I'm not doing a rewatch, nor have I recently, but my friend likes to host Terrible Trek Nights where she curates some of the worst episodes Trek has to offer, and last time we watched Tuvix.

The thing that infuriated me about that episode (and then stuck with me) was the ending, because it cuts off at the exact moment that the whole conceit and central conflict of the episode was about to get interesting. So they break him back apart into Neelix and Tuvok and... neither of them has even a single line of dialogue afterwards. There's no indication whether they even remember being combined, much less what they might have thought about staying combined or being split, the opinions and choices they might have had or made regarding the unique dilemma... Nope. They're back to normal and Janeway walks out into the hallway like "welp, that settles that," roll credits, without a single moment of reflection or fallout. Which is where, I insist again, things would have really gotten interesting.
This is my big issue with Voyager in general - they don't really deal with the questions they ask. And all the questions are good! on individual level, the eps are fun, some very excellent. BUT! - they seem very happy to close the lid as soon as possible
Reply With Quote
  #9726  
Old Today, 11:03 AM
Parish's Avatar
Parish Parish is offline
Your life is forfeit
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Rally, Nerf Cackolacka
Posts: 11,148
Default

Well, I finished Voyager season 2. I can't believe the next five seasons of the show are going to be about the Kazon hijackers ruining the Delta Quadrant with the ship! Pretty ballsy creative choice.
Reply With Quote
  #9727  
Old Today, 11:17 AM
R.R. Bigman's Avatar
R.R. Bigman R.R. Bigman is offline
Family Man
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Knoxville! Knoxville! Knoxville!
Posts: 8,924
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parish View Post
Um exCUSE me [pushes glasses up bridge of nose] but the concept of money has been rendered obsolete by the time of Star Trek and
I've been poking my head in this thread lately after hearing Brett Elston gush about TNG on the Thirty Twenty Ten podcast. Star Trek's universe doesn't use money?
Reply With Quote
  #9728  
Old Today, 11:18 AM
chud_666's Avatar
chud_666 chud_666 is offline
120 Days
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Salo
Posts: 7,802
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parish View Post
Well, I finished Voyager season 2. I can't believe the next five seasons of the show are going to be about the Kazon hijackers ruining the Delta Quadrant with the ship! Pretty ballsy creative choice.
hahahah. Starring Cullah.
Reply With Quote
  #9729  
Old Today, 11:38 AM
Gaer's Avatar
Gaer Gaer is online now
beech i told u
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,010
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.R. Bigman View Post
I've been poking my head in this thread lately after hearing Brett Elston gush about TNG on the Thirty Twenty Ten podcast. Star Trek's universe doesn't use money?
Yeah, humans live in a post-scarcity society and there's no more use for money. The Federation also has no use for currency.

In the few times that Voyager needs to have money (since they're in the Delta Quadrant and the only Federation presence there), it's implied they use replicator rations to generate it.
Reply With Quote
  #9730  
Old Today, 11:42 AM
Kate or Die!'s Avatar
Kate or Die! Kate or Die! is online now
crazy sniffable
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York Peninsula
Posts: 2,785
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaer View Post
Yeah, humans live in a post-scarcity society and there's no more use for money. The Federation also has no use for currency.

In the few times that Voyager needs to have money (since they're in the Delta Quadrant and the only Federation presence there), it's implied they use replicator rations to generate it.
Yeah, since money (and gold) can be replicated there isn't much value in it. Latinum, however...
Reply With Quote
  #9731  
Old Today, 12:05 PM
Gaer's Avatar
Gaer Gaer is online now
beech i told u
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,010
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kate or Die! View Post
Yeah, since money (and gold) can be replicated there isn't much value in it. Latinum, however...
That's where we get the fun bartering and trade episodes! And I'm not being sarcastic, watching Federation officers -- people raised in a society without money -- deal with this is entertaining. They learn to barter quickly and stuff, but I really like that little wrinkle.
Reply With Quote
  #9732  
Old Today, 12:05 PM
ThornGhost's Avatar
ThornGhost ThornGhost is offline
That bug is NUTS!
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,099
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chud_666 View Post
This is my big issue with Voyager in general - they don't really deal with the questions they ask. And all the questions are good! on individual level, the eps are fun, some very excellent. BUT! - they seem very happy to close the lid as soon as possible
Haha, I remember a later season of Voyager where some race of slug aliens needed some DNA to like, reproduce? And Janeway says something like "And everyone on Voyager was happy to donate some of their DNA to help them." This produces a society of essentially clones of that live on that planet and Voyager just flies off and everybody waves.

Reply With Quote
  #9733  
Old Today, 12:47 PM
chud_666's Avatar
chud_666 chud_666 is offline
120 Days
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Salo
Posts: 7,802
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaer View Post
That's where we get the fun bartering and trade episodes! And I'm not being sarcastic, watching Federation officers -- people raised in a society without money -- deal with this is entertaining. They learn to barter quickly and stuff, but I really like that little wrinkle.
I like Jake repeating Picard's speech from First Contact, and getting made fun of by Nog.
Reply With Quote
  #9734  
Old Today, 01:55 PM
Traumadore's Avatar
Traumadore Traumadore is online now
An Animal of Joy
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Twin Cities
Posts: 7,819
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThornGhost View Post
Haha, I remember a later season of Voyager where some race of slug aliens needed some DNA to like, reproduce? And Janeway says something like "And everyone on Voyager was happy to donate some of their DNA to help them." This produces a society of essentially clones of that live on that planet and Voyager just flies off and everybody waves.

If that was "Demon", then I especially enjoy that the clones go on to have an entirely different set of weekly misadventures before disintegrating in "Oblivion". It's a real wasted opportunity that there wasn't a third episode where the crew had to answer for something the clones did.

Last edited by Traumadore; Today at 05:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9735  
Old Today, 03:11 PM
SpoonyBardOL's Avatar
SpoonyBardOL SpoonyBardOL is offline
I. Love. It.
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Newfie Land
Posts: 14,987
Default

More V'GER.

Thirty Days: Paris done effed up, finally writes a letter to his dad, is demoted for like a season or so. Not a bad episode, and it's nice to see Tom show some growth by... doing the sort of thing he ALWAYS used to do, but for an actual reason this time.

Counterpoint: "PRAX!" A really good one where Voyager has to pass through a region of space belonging to an almost cartoonishly fascist race of telepathy-phobes. Voyager is, of course, acting as a transport to get refugees from one side to the other, and winds up picking up a defector from the Space Nazis. The whole episode you're asking not only whether or not this guy is on the level, but whether or not Janeway is falling for it. As it turns out, he's not, and she doesn't. Voyager gets away a bit too scott-free at the end, but the will he/won't he and will she/won't she tug of war sure is fun to watch.

Latent Image: Hot damn Season 5 is on fire. Probably the best Doctor episode since The Swarm. What happens if an AI has an ethical crisis? Or rather, what happens when an AI that was never meant to be a fully fledged AI has an ethical crisis? This probably never would have happened to Data, but Data was designed from the ground up to be as human as possible, The Doctor wasn't. But if that wasn't good enough, the parts of the episode focusing on Seven and Janeway kind of steal the show. Seeing those two debate the finer points of individuality is always a great watch.

So far the season is going strong. I wonder what the next episode is---

ohboyohboyohboyohboy

Last edited by SpoonyBardOL; Today at 03:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9736  
Old Today, 03:57 PM
WisteriaHysteria's Avatar
WisteriaHysteria WisteriaHysteria is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,700
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Büge View Post
It seems to me that, for one reason or another, they simply neglected the heavier makeup for Season 2. Probably budget reasons, since they were doing a lot more elaborate costumes and sets and couldn't spare the shoe polish.
I stand corrected. It's still some wide variance in how things get portrayed. And I always thought S3 was supposed to be the season TOS had its budget slashed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traumadore View Post
They never explain how they recovered Michael, after going to great lengths to justify why the only possible scouting option was a single crew member in a suit.
I watched the 1st episode twice, and they definitely say in sickbay that they beamed her out once she'd drifted far enough away from the Klingon ship's interference thingiemajig.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThornGhost View Post
Haha, I remember a later season of Voyager where some race of slug aliens needed some DNA to like, reproduce? And Janeway says something like "And everyone on Voyager was happy to donate some of their DNA to help them." This produces a society of essentially clones of that live on that planet and Voyager just flies off and everybody waves.
1) Star Trek has a really weird/problematic relationship with cloning. But this is an episode I was OK with. The situation was, there were already clones of some of the crew. This civilization of space blobs was already indelibly affected by Voyager so the damage was done/Prime Directive wasn't an issue. It doesn't really hurt anything to let the peaceful blobs make more copies of the crew. And you can trust the space blobs to be responsible because, well, they're just copies of you. You can trust yourself, right? I liked it. A happy end and solution for all. Until...

2) If you're using this as a "LOL Voyager" example where the show is consequence free, you're forgetting that there was a follow up to this episode, and it was probably one of the best episodes in all of Trek, never mind just Voyager. Getting to watch how the crew conducts itself knowing its demise is imminent was fascinating and deeply affecting.

3) I'd like to remind people to throw some spoiler tags on some stuff like this where applicable. Some people in the thread are going through Voyager for the first time, and it would be nice if they didn't get things spoiled for them too much.
Reply With Quote
  #9737  
Old Today, 04:18 PM
YangusKhan's Avatar
YangusKhan YangusKhan is offline
does the Underpants Dance
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 5,507
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chud_666 View Post
This is my big issue with Voyager in general - they don't really deal with the questions they ask. And all the questions are good! on individual level, the eps are fun, some very excellent. BUT! - they seem very happy to close the lid as soon as possible
I'd say this was my only problem with Tuvix as well. Like Paul said, they don't say anything about what just happened to them at the end. I mean I suppose that's a way to continue the proverbial "debate" about the episode, but it is an unnatural thing to do. You'd think after spending so much time fused together and then not, they'd say something at first. I can appreciate how the episode is supposed to be focused on The Question instead of The Answer, but the execution at the end could've been better and still achieved what it set out to do.
Reply With Quote
  #9738  
Old Today, 04:49 PM
R.R. Bigman's Avatar
R.R. Bigman R.R. Bigman is offline
Family Man
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Knoxville! Knoxville! Knoxville!
Posts: 8,924
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaer View Post
Yeah, humans live in a post-scarcity society and there's no more use for money. The Federation also has no use for currency.
I have no idea how that would work on a day to day level.

If someone were to be interested in giving a Star Trek a watch, where would a good place be to start?
Reply With Quote
  #9739  
Old Today, 04:56 PM
Falselogic's Avatar
Falselogic Falselogic is online now
Threadcromantosaurus Rex
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: California
Posts: 29,670
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.R. Bigman View Post
I have no idea how that would work on a day to day level.

If someone were to be interested in giving a Star Trek a watch, where would a good place be to start?
TOS holds up well enough. I'd start there.
Reply With Quote
  #9740  
Old Today, 05:05 PM
WisteriaHysteria's Avatar
WisteriaHysteria WisteriaHysteria is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,700
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.R. Bigman View Post
I have no idea how that would work on a day to day level.
We use money because it's a self-regulating way to manage a scarcity of resources. We also use money because people are generally not educated and enlightened enough to be beyond materialism. In the world of Star Trek, there is no scarcity of resources when you can just create anything you want or need out of thin air. And when nothing has any value because nothing is scarce, you don't need money either. All that's left is to train society to not be materialistic, in which case a good education should do the trick. And it's a lot easier to be non-materialistic when there's no value in goods and zero pressure to accrue wealth to survive. Imagining how such a society would operate is actually kinda easy. Imagining how we get there first is the hard part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.R. Bigman View Post
If someone were to be interested in giving a Star Trek a watch, where would a good place be to start?
Star Trek covers a wide array of things that vastly change in tone and theme. So there's no one ideal entry point IMO because it kinda depends on the kinds of media you inherently enjoy to begin with. It also doesn't help that the first season of most shows are very mediocre in quality as the shows find their footing.

To me, Star Trek is like comic books. It really doesn't matter where you start, just pick a place and try to stick with it. I started with the TOS movies (the 80s films that starred William Shatner). I think they're probably an easy jumping on point and self-contained enough. Others began with TNG (The Next Generation) or TOS (The Original Series) or VOY (Voyager), etc. This new show honestly might not be a bad place to start either. So just pick a show/film and roll the dice.

Even "bad" Trek isn't actually bad, IMO. Star Trek has a long history of being ridiculous and campy at times in ways I've always enjoyed and found fun. So if you can enjoy something that shifts tones between genuinely good and ironic good, you'll be at home with wherever you start out in Star Trek.

Edit: Also, make sure to watch both the Star Trek episode of Futurama, as well as Galaxy Quest at some point early on if you can't quite wrap your head around the camp of Star Trek.
Reply With Quote
  #9741  
Old Today, 05:22 PM
R.R. Bigman's Avatar
R.R. Bigman R.R. Bigman is offline
Family Man
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Knoxville! Knoxville! Knoxville!
Posts: 8,924
Default

So the people in Star Trek can just create anything they want? It's like that magic kiln from The Day the Earth Froze.

I'm not a big Sci-Fi person, but hearing about how passionately people feel about Star Trek has made me curious. My dad used to love The Next Generation, which soured me on the series in general since he was an awful person and my kid brain couldn't separate him from the show for a very long time. Maybe I could give that a shot.
Reply With Quote
  #9742  
Old Today, 05:25 PM
Destil's Avatar
Destil Destil is online now
TARANTUL
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 20,767
Default

My wife and I tried to go to a post-scarcity and Star Trek economics lecture at Dragon Con this year, but it got bumped from the schedule (think the presenter was sick), which was a real shame.

Also a shame how they didn't announce that before hand, so we sat through the first 5 minutes of something like "Fan Speculation on Discovery" before looking at each other, getting up and leaving.
Reply With Quote
  #9743  
Old Today, 05:47 PM
Parish's Avatar
Parish Parish is offline
Your life is forfeit
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Rally, Nerf Cackolacka
Posts: 11,148
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.R. Bigman View Post
So the people in Star Trek can just create anything they want? It's like that magic kiln from The Day the Earth Froze.
This has turned out to be a major plot point in Voyager, since it's unique technology and a whole lot of people want it.
Reply With Quote
  #9744  
Old Today, 06:04 PM
Torzelbaum's Avatar
Torzelbaum Torzelbaum is offline
????? LV 13 HP 292/
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 9,929
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Positronic Brain View Post
Pls, Star Trek, bring back klingon beards. And throw in some moustaches, please. Bonus points if they can twirl them.
Twirling? That doesn't seem like a very Klingon-y move to me.
Reply With Quote
  #9745  
Old Today, 06:06 PM
estragon's Avatar
estragon estragon is online now
この世の最も無智なる者
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 14,914
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.R. Bigman View Post
My dad used to love The Next Generation, which soured me on the series in general since he was an awful person and my kid brain couldn't separate him from the show for a very long time. Maybe I could give that a shot.
TNG is a great place to start, although the first two seasons can be a chore. If you want to get a taste of what makes Star Trek good, just start with TNG season three. TNG is mostly from an era of self-contained episodes where every episode ends with a return to the status quo, so it's fine to just start in the middle like that. There is some continuity but for the most part every episode assumes you've never seen Star Trek before.

Because a lot of Star Trek is self-contained, another option would just be to google "star trek best episodes"(there are a lot of Lists of Star Trek Episodes on the internet) and checking some out from different shows, avoiding occasional entries that sound continuity heavy and/or are finales that expect you to care about characters already.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
anomaly , fascinating , four lights , get the cheese to sickbay , gold-pressed latinum , i'm sensing hostility , it's a faaaake! , khaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan , live long and prosper , lt. barclay , no it's real!!! , o'brien's shoulder , octo-good , resistance is futile , reverse the polarity , science fiction , shaka when the walls fell , shut up wesley , star trek , tachyon , temba his arms wide , the punishment zone , there is one bridge! , welshy!!!! , wesley crusher

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Your posts ©you, 2007