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  #2641  
Old 07-17-2017, 10:58 AM
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Plus in fantasy if you dig too deep you get midichlorians.
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  #2642  
Old 07-17-2017, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
I didn't know if dragonglass is magic obsidian, or all obsidian is magic and it's just called dragonglass. The connection between dragonglass and Dragonstone made me wonder if dragons had a hand in making it or there was some other connection there, but maybe that's not necessary.
I don't watch the show, but in ASoIaF all magic is death magic.
The Children watered their weirwoods with blood. The Valyrians used slave labor to mine for dragonglass, their Steel, and other wonders until the combined deaths woke up some slumbering horror and obliterated their society. The Faceless Men can only take the faces of the dead, and their price is suicide. R'hllor, or whatever people are calling R'hllor, is fed by burning people alive. Only the Seven perform no obvious magic, and ask no human sacrifice.
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  #2643  
Old 07-17-2017, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ample Vigour View Post
Only the Seven perform no obvious magic, and ask no human sacrifice.
And probably aren't real.
I think they said the Targaryens brought the Seven, or they were the gods of the Andals, or something off the top of my head. I almost wonder if the point of their existence as a Church of non-real gods in a world of death magic gods is that rulers looked at the prices demanded of them by the gods/forces that existed and said "uh-uh we gotta do something else." Heck, that may have something to do with why Magic faded in the first place, as their worship did, though that causation could go either way (no magic -> no reason to believe another religion over the non-magical one, or more worship of non-magical false gods over real magical ones draining their power?
This is one of those things that likely will never actually be explained or known in the books, so, time to get some good old-fashioned Wylde Internette Theorie.
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  #2644  
Old 07-17-2017, 11:39 AM
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So, just to make sure I was reading things right, at the end of this episode the diseased hand that Sam saw sticking out from the door and asking about muh dragon queen was totally Jorah Mormont, right?
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  #2645  
Old 07-17-2017, 11:41 AM
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Yeah.
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  #2646  
Old 07-17-2017, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul le Fou View Post
...so, time to get some good old-fashioned Wylde Internette Theorie.
I don't read the books, but I love this shit.

And yes, WisHis.
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  #2647  
Old 07-17-2017, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
GRRM is double dipping a bit there.
I think you really might be overthinking this. It's a rock. Maybe it's obsidian specifically forged from dragon fire and/or fire magic instead of lava (so there would be a lot on Dragonstone as a side effect of using fire magic to construct a giant tower, or maybe it's just because it's an island so there was a recent history of volcanic activity). But it's basically just obsidian.

Magical forest sprites and advanced magical civilizations can both make things out of rocks.

In real world history, you find people from different regions and cultures making weapons and tools out of obsidian because it's very sharp. In the ASoIaF world, it's both very sharp and also imbued with fire magic. Multiple parallel cultures and civilizations made weapons out of the same rocks and metals based on what was available in their environment in real world history, that's also what's going on in this fictional world. (The availability of different materials for weapon/tool making plays a role in the political history of ASoIaF.)

Last edited by estragon; 07-17-2017 at 12:11 PM.
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  #2648  
Old 07-17-2017, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul le Fou View Post
This is one of those things that likely will never actually be explained or known in the books, so, time to get some good old-fashioned Wylde Internette Theorie.
There is only one god in Westeros. His name is GRRM. And we say to him "Finish the fucking book."

Ye Olde Wiki says that the Seven were first worshipped by the Andals before they came over to Westeros. The Andals claims the Seven walked among them and crowned their first king, then told him Westeros was their promised land (All of which reads like GRRM finally getting to pay homage to The White Stag.) The Targaryens later took to the Faith when they came over, which is really interesting considering that Valyria was an explicitly atheistic culture (at the top.)

I agree that this will likely never be laid out clearly (at least until someone publishes GRRM's personal notes after his death,) but there are the seeds of numerous explanations in that story: The Seven were culture heroes elevated to godhood; The Seven are real, and potentially tied into whatever hellfire-spewing monstrosity blew up Valyria; The Seven were invented/popularized by King Hugor in order to unify the Andal tribes; etc.
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  #2649  
Old 07-17-2017, 12:03 PM
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Also the war between the Andals and the Kings of Winter is fucking metal, as it involves one Andal army after another marching into the Neck to be annihilated by Crannogmen guerrillas.
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  #2650  
Old 07-17-2017, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by estragon View Post
I think you really might be overthinking this.
As others said, GRRM left it vague. That led me to asking about it. That's not overthinking it.

You could have been a bit more kind in your responses. No need to speak down to someone just because they asked a question.
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  #2651  
Old 07-17-2017, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by juanfrugalj View Post
Sam's montage was the highlight for me.
Yep.

Also as the montage started to get more rhythmic, I couldn't help but be reminded of that cups earworm from Pitch Perfect, and laughed out loud at the thought of Anna Kendrick singing over Sam slinging shit/gruel.
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  #2652  
Old 07-17-2017, 12:35 PM
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Hmmm. I didn't mean it to come across as confrontational or to be speaking down. I just didn't understand how it would be "double dipping" for multiple parallel civilizations to make things out of sharp rocks.
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  #2653  
Old 07-17-2017, 12:37 PM
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Black Stone is also magical in and of itself, irrespective of origin. I think dragonglass being inherently special fits in with the whole. Divinity/magic in ASoIaF is like radiation, and radiation contaminates things.
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  #2654  
Old 07-17-2017, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ample Vigour View Post
I don't watch the show, but in ASoIaF all magic is death magic.
The Children watered their weirwoods with blood. The Valyrians used slave labor to mine for dragonglass, their Steel, and other wonders until the combined deaths woke up some slumbering horror and obliterated their society. The Faceless Men can only take the faces of the dead, and their price is suicide. R'hllor, or whatever people are calling R'hllor, is fed by burning people alive. Only the Seven perform no obvious magic, and ask no human sacrifice.
Where do the Sorcerers from the House of the Undying get their magic from? In the show, their magic came back or was greatly strengthened by the dragons being around.

The opening episode felt like fan fiction sometimes, especially Arya's one woman slaughter. I still liked it, of course.
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  #2655  
Old 07-17-2017, 12:50 PM
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Being sharp isn't what kills white walkers. Valyrian steel and dragonglass are both magical in addition to being sharp, and they're the only things that kill white walkers, and they're now both linked to Valyria. I thought there might be more there since they specifically drew that connection in this episode, but it sounds like rocks are just magical in Westeros.

E- Also, it was a half-formed idea and I didn't present it very well in my first post about it. I could have just looked into some wikis.

Last edited by Patrick; 07-17-2017 at 01:01 PM.
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  #2656  
Old 07-17-2017, 01:03 PM
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Recap of Valyria/Valyrian Steel/Dragonglass

Valyria was the country that did too much fire magic and was destroyed for their hubris.

Valyrian steel is steel the Valyrians forged by using fire magic.

Dragonglass is a naturally occurring element (basically obsidian, so created by volcanic activity ... and in the case of Dragonstone maybe also powerful fire magic that might as well have been volcanic activity) that was used to make stuff because it's sharp. Magical ancient civilizations and magical forest sprites also used it because its volcanic origins imbued it with fire magic.


Quote:
Originally Posted by R.R. Bigman View Post
Where do the Sorcerers from the House of the Undying get their magic from? In the show, their magic came back or was greatly strengthened by the dragons being around.
Magic growing back is a global phenomenon, and your guess is as good as any as to whether you think some individual event in the story triggered it or whether that's just a cycle. (There is a dragon and egg question: Did the dragons hatch because magic was returning, or did Dany trigger the return of magic when she hatched the dragons?)

The Warlocks from Quarth are associated with all that mystical far east business that will probably never get more than a surface level explanation. You basically just get the sense that beyond the known world there are a lot of types of magic that will never be explained, including those guys.

However, I would say that you've be safe to bet that all of the analysis Ample Vigor laid out above about the in-world principles of magic apply to them as well, if a full explanation were provided.

And it seems like they largely practiced visions, glamours, and extending their own mortality by stealing the life from others, which is pretty much all within the realm of what anyone else has done with magic.

Whether that means they are getting magic from a god of fire, or whether you think that means maybe the god of fire isn't a thing at all in a first place is open to interpretation.

Last edited by estragon; 07-17-2017 at 01:33 PM.
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  #2657  
Old 07-17-2017, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
So, just to make sure I was reading things right, at the end of this episode the diseased hand that Sam saw sticking out from the door and asking about muh dragon queen was totally Jorah Mormont, right?
My mom is hard of hearing so we had to have subtitles on. Which gave away that reveal by putting the name in front of the dialogue.

I mean WTF
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  #2658  
Old 07-22-2017, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Issun View Post
My mom is hard of hearing so we had to have subtitles on. Which gave away that reveal by putting the name in front of the dialogue.

I mean WTF
I don't think there's meant to be any ambiguity, though. I feel like the idea is we don't need to see him to get the idea. He's basically the only guy we know who has dragon skin or whatever its called. I was surprised, though, because I totally forgot that he left Daenerys's side. Also, me and JBear were all like "What, where's Melissandra again?"
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  #2659  
Old 07-22-2017, 06:49 AM
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tbh GoT lost me a while ago but I kept watching for Jorah. Glad to see he is still, uh, kicking.

If he does things this season I may watch, but skip the episodes without Jorah.

I really like Jorah.
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  #2660  
Old 07-22-2017, 07:21 AM
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My wife was flipping channels the other day and landed on one of the Tomb Raider movies. The villain looked so familiar to me, but I couldn't place his face. Then he spoke and I realized: Wow, Jorah Mormont tried to kill Lara Croft.
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  #2661  
Old 07-23-2017, 07:10 PM
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Is Euron Greyjoy the new Ramsey Bolton?
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  #2662  
Old 07-23-2017, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R.R. Bigman View Post
Is Euron Greyjoy the new Ramsey Bolton?
Sorta. In the books:he sort of reads like a final fantasy villain
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  #2663  
Old 07-23-2017, 08:03 PM
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(1) What do people think the scenes with the wolves was setting up, either plotwise or just thematically?

(2) What terrible thing will Littlefinger do to provide a climax to his story this season before he's inevitably killed/exiled (or escapes)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.R. Bigman View Post
Is Euron Greyjoy the new Ramsey Bolton?
At this point, I would say no, if only because all of his scenes directly propel the plot forward. It's not like when they were doing Ramsay Bolton's Torture Porn Corner every week. I don't think the current pace of the show would allow that to happen to Euron.
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  #2664  
Old 07-23-2017, 08:04 PM
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He is super villain evil though.
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  #2665  
Old 07-23-2017, 08:10 PM
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Euron is actually cool, though. As far as supervillains go.
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  #2666  
Old 07-23-2017, 09:21 PM
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I feel kinda bad for wanting the sand snakes dead, and then to have them actually gutted. That wasn't a hilarious or glorious way to go, it was just kinda gross.
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  #2667  
Old 07-23-2017, 09:27 PM
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Eh, they had it coming.
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  #2668  
Old 07-23-2017, 09:37 PM
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Ellaria and what's her face are still alive.
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  #2669  
Old 07-23-2017, 09:39 PM
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"Let's take our two most awkardly adapted plotlines and smash them together to cull things a bit."
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  #2670  
Old 07-23-2017, 11:37 PM
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At least Euron is actually intimidating now instead of Boring McDullface.
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