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Old 02-05-2017, 02:34 PM
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Default 1000 Pictures are worth a Lot of Words - Comics & Graphics Novels nomination thread

Well look at that, after suggesting it for, I dunno, a year or something, my top 50 idea finally won the poll, so now we get to answer this question:



Spoiler: the answer is no! Because one will be Talking Time's favorite, and another 49 or more will be ranked in order of preference!

Most of you know the drill by now, but just in case anyone new is coming over from the print forum or something, let's go over the basics:

How this works: You submit to me, via DM, a list of your most favoritest 25 comixes, mangoes, and graphical novels. Go in order starting from your fave. Your #1 will receive the most points, going on down to down to your #25. (If you don't have 25 comics you love, submitting a shorter list is fine.) Then everything will be tallied up and I'll present the winningest 50 (or maybe a few more, if there's ties or notable honorable mentions). Easy!

To maintain suspense, please don't post your lists publicly before the Top 50 is completed. Also, a lot of people like to avoid mentioning specific candidates here in the preview thread to avoid biasing folks, but sometimes it's hard to discuss list ideas without concrete examples. Use your judgement.

Deadline: I looked through some old threads and it seems like the average submission time was a couple weeks, so for now let's say please send your lists to me by the end of President's Day, February 20th. (However, we usually don't overlap lists - I expect Musicals will be done by then, but if it's not there will be an extension.)

Details: What sort of stuff should I submit? Here's my basic thoughts, to help me tally and make sure people are voting for things in a consistent way:

For creator-owned or -controlled comics (which will include most manga, most newspaper strips, and most one-off graphic novels), just submit the whole thing as a single entry.

For corporate properties, like most western superhero comics, things get trickier because they get farmed out to a huge variety of creators often of wildly varying content and quality. What I would shoot for is naming a particular storyline or run by a particular author or creative team. Sometimes books make it easy by giving that kind of unit its own title (usually something like "Superhero: This Particular Story"); other times you may need to resort to "Author's run on BookTitle". If it seems like what you're referring to is at all ambiguous, give me as much info as possible, like the publishing year and as much of the creative team as necessary.

In the end, of course, vote how you want, but I think the above guideline will help votes align to give lots of good works a decent chance of making the final list. If you have questions or comments, this thread is where to do it. Also, I'm not 100% decided on which of the two tallying systems to use (votes get 25 through 1 points, or 35 through 11 to keep lower-ranked votes still useful), so if you have an opinion after seeing the new scheme in action once feel free to say so.

Also, since I originally suggested this top 50 because I wanted to vote on it... I'm gonna vote too. But I'll make my list before I start tallying anything, so I can't be influenced by the rankings.

Oh, and aside to our veteran list-runners: if you have google doc templates for tallying that you like, I'd love to see 'em. Thanks! Oh hey, Positronic sent one already, you rock.


Okay, I think that about covers it. Vote for some comics!

Last edited by Kirin; 02-11-2017 at 12:11 PM.
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  #2  
Old 02-05-2017, 03:16 PM
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Are webcomics allowed?
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  #3  
Old 02-05-2017, 03:42 PM
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Don't eat mangos.
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Old 02-05-2017, 04:04 PM
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What about crossovers/events that span multiple titles?

Or what if there's a series that had a specific creative team, but only one part of the series is actually worth listing?
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Old 02-05-2017, 04:11 PM
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I can't speak for Kirin, but I'd say any given single story arc would count as a single entry.

So, to use your questions, you could vote for the whole Onslaught story arc, even though it was only told through a number of unrelated series, or just specifically the Beta Ray Bill arc of the Simonson Run on Thor (as well as the whole of Simonsons run, if I'm reading the rules right)
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Old 02-05-2017, 09:39 PM
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Yeah, about what Octo said sounds good. I'm not going to argue you shouldn't vote for whatever chunk you think makes a cohesive creative work - the real trick is, will other people vote for it too? But if an entire multi-title crossover work is well-regarded as a whole, go for it. Just make sure you give me enough info that I can look it up and decide who all's voting for the same thing. Of course, if I run into anything I can't figure out, I'll ask for clarification.

Similarly if you want a single story out of a longer run, that's probably fine as long as the story is well-known. If it's collected into a book with a unique subtitle or something, that's probably a good sign and makes things easier. As long as it's clear-cut. Like, manga arcs are often a bit ambiguous and may be more fan-defined than official, which is why I'd tend to vote for entire series there.

Basically, if a work is pretty consistent throughout, it's probably safest to vote for the whole thing rather than risk votes getting split up and not making the final list. But if it varies wildly by all means vote for the good part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aturtledoesbite View Post
Are webcomics allowed?
Don't see why not. A lot of them are collected into books anyway, and it would be weird to leave *those* out, so may as well be inclusive.

(It could certainly be interesting to have separate lists for web-comics, gag comics, and long-form visual storytelling each as separate lists, but seeing how long it took to get this idea voted in at all I doubt that would happen for a long time, so we're probably best off throwing everything together here.)
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Old 02-05-2017, 11:25 PM
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What about nectarines?
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Old 02-06-2017, 02:36 AM
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They're more prose-based.
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Old 02-06-2017, 06:09 AM
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It might not always be obvious when it happens, but if someone say, votes for a writer's whole run on a super hero book, and someone else votes for a specific arc of that run, it might make sense to combine those somehow.
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Old 02-06-2017, 07:01 AM
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Sure, I'll definitely use discretion about combining votes, if it's pretty obvious that they contain a lot of the same work.

Why American superheroes gotta be so complicated?
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Old 02-07-2017, 08:08 AM
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How about series that have a consistent creative team but are split into multiple stand-alone volumes, like Criminal or Phonogram?

edit: nuts to it, I'm including these as single entries rather than splitting them up into various volumes, they're telling a complete overall story.

Last edited by ajr82; 02-07-2017 at 08:48 AM.
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  #12  
Old 02-07-2017, 09:01 AM
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I'd suggest that, yeah, for things with a single author/team and continuing story, mainly because they're more likely to make the top 50 that way. It'd be sad to see something great get shut out just because five different people picked five different books of it.

I feel like this is gonna be another list where there's a lot of things to pick from and not a ton of obvious winners ahead of time, so it'll be more about what makes the list at all rather than known faves competing for score (like a lot of our game lists).
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Old 02-07-2017, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirin View Post
so it'll be more about what makes the list at all rather than known faves competing for score (like a lot of our game lists).
That is definitely a huge reason I've been submitting my list. I feel that there's a few obvious contenders, but there's no way of being 100% sure what's going to top the list. Hopefully soon...

With that shameless plug out of the way, I'm not really sure how many submissions I'm going to have for this list but, like Tabletop Games, I think it'll be a fun form of education on something I don't know much about. I am super excite!
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Old 02-07-2017, 02:50 PM
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Yeah, just to give a very early idea of how this is shaping up... with just half a dozen lists in, I already have 112 titles, only 16 of which have more than one vote yet. I have a feeling that like with musicals, every vote will count, especially for the 25-50 range.
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Old 02-09-2017, 09:13 AM
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whoops I accidentally forgot to put any yuri on my list /shrugggg
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Old 02-09-2017, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
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whoops I accidentally forgot to put any yuri on my list /shrugggg
i'll look forward to the honorable mentions

(i forgot to put some too, though i don't know what i'd take away)
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Old 02-09-2017, 10:19 AM
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I wasn't going to participate, but Johnny twisted my arm, and I managed to drum up a dozen things to list. Anything more than that and I'd have literally been listing every comic I've ever read, so I guess this will be my first incomplete list submission.
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Old 02-09-2017, 03:01 PM
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I am not super deep into this genre, but I will try to at least get a partial list in. I do have some faves.
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Old 02-09-2017, 03:11 PM
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My list probably won't be very long. I doubt I've even read 25 comics aside from the mostly mediocre stuff in the newspaper.
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Old 02-10-2017, 05:35 PM
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I would prefer the 35-11 points system used if possible. in 35-11, something needs to be picked 4 times at #25 to beat someone else's #1. In 25-1, Something needs to be picked 25 times to beat someone else's #1...that seems like way too big a spread, given how the musicals list is going right now.
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Old 02-10-2017, 06:01 PM
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I was actually thinking that I prefer the old point system because it gave us more variety and surprises. The new system makes it very unlikely that we'll see something that only one person voted for, even if it was their number one pick. Instead we end up with choices that received multiple votes but maybe weren't very high on any individual's list.

I guess I like the old system because it's more likely to introduce me to somebody's favorites. I'm more likely to check out a movie if one person tells me they absolutely loved it than if five people told me they thought it was pretty good.
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Old 02-10-2017, 09:23 PM
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Hmm. I could split the difference and add 5 to each instead of 10 (so, 31-6 points per vote). Should be an easy adjustment on the spreadsheet PB hooked me up with.

I dunno, at this point I think I want to wait to see what the spread looks like before committing - right now there's still nowhere near 50 things with multiple votes, so plenty of single faves would show up either way, but hopefully I'll get a bunch more lists in before the deadline. (I'd do my best to make a decision based on the overall distribution of points, without paying attention to which individual titles move on or off the list, to try not to bias the decision with my personal preferences.)

Whichever method I end up with, I'll probably also throw in quick honorable mentions at the beginning for things that got the most votes without making the top 50.
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Old 02-10-2017, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulgakov View Post
I would prefer the 35-11 points system used if possible. in 35-11, something needs to be picked 4 times at #25 to beat someone else's #1. In 25-1, Something needs to be picked 25 times to beat someone else's #1...that seems like way too big a spread, given how the musicals list is going right now.
I'm glad we're trending this, its a good adjustment.

I have read one piece, sin city, bone and ranma 1/2, none very deeply. How do I fill the other 21 spots so I can play too? Just list things I haven't read?
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Old 02-10-2017, 10:13 PM
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Just put Bat-man in the other 21 spots. With the hyphen.
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Old 02-10-2017, 11:14 PM
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I did a tiny bit of research to jog my memory and holy crap, even as a fan of the art form, I'm amazed at what a crazy amount of great indie stuff is out there that I haven't even heard of.
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Old 02-11-2017, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guild View Post
I'm glad we're trending this, its a good adjustment.

I have read one piece, sin city, bone and ranma 1/2, none very deeply. How do I fill the other 21 spots so I can play too? Just list things I haven't read?
You don't need a full list if you don't/can't/won't/other list 25.
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  #27  
Old 02-11-2017, 10:28 AM
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Adding things to your list that you don't care about just to make for a full 25 leads to a really crummy final list. A bunch of half-assed votes for a Batman comic can easily overpower a really good indie comic that only one or two people have read.
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Old 02-11-2017, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teg View Post
Adding things to your list that you don't care about just to make for a full 25 leads to a really crummy final list. A bunch of half-assed votes for a Batman comic can easily overpower a really good indie comic that only one or two people have read.
Yep. I ended up sending in a list of 20 because that's all I felt confident pointing to as my absolute top picks.
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  #29  
Old 02-11-2017, 12:08 PM
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I did the full 25, but I cut a couple of books that I felt like I was obligated to vote for (namely Watchmen and Maus) in favour of ones that I wanted to vote for.
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Old 02-11-2017, 12:10 PM
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Yes, by all means send in a list of less than 25 if you don't have that many comics you love. It's no problem. Maybe I should edit the OP to note that.
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