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  #1501  
Old 03-18-2017, 09:06 PM
Dizzy Dizzy is offline
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Originally Posted by Bongo Bill View Post
Find a bad shot from a prequel.
Alright everyone, it's time to pack it up.
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  #1502  
Old 03-18-2017, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Bongo Bill View Post
Find a bad shot from a prequel.
Defined by me for these purposes as a shot that is exceptionally poorly done and/or one that pulls me out of the movie, just off the top of my head:

• The farting camel thing in Phantom Menace.
• Any of Jar-Jar's antics.
• Anakin riding the blimp cows in Clones, and the rolling in the grass with Padme afterward. And their firelight chat after that. Pretty much any scene where we're supposed to believe these two people possess warm human emotions toward each other.
• The bizarre shot where Obi-Wan herkily-jerkily discards his blaster after killing Grievous (where it rotates to his left before he tosses it aside is really weird, obviously manipulated, looks even worse on my TV than this clip)
• The similarly bizarre shot where Anakin's hand and datapad rotate weirdly smoothly because George Lucas decided to cut them off his wrist and rotate them digitally so he's doing something other than sitting there with a datapad in that shot.
• He does his best, but Ian McDiarmid does not really sell his character's lightsaber fighting ability against Mace, et al.
• Near every scene of the Jedi council is static as hell and boring as fuck.
• The birth of the twins and Padme's stupid death and that stupid midwife droid going "oooba, oooba."
• The Vader "noooooooooo" scene, which makes a potentially very dramatic moment (immediately following a very effective body horror/surgery montage) unbearably cheesy. It's fine right up until noooooooooo, but the combination of that and his swaying and arm movements kills the scene's drama entirely.

Last edited by Sarcasmorator; 03-18-2017 at 10:06 PM.
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  #1503  
Old 03-18-2017, 10:29 PM
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Default For that matter, somebody post a bad passage from Tolkien

A bad shot. None of those are shots. (Some of them might be bad effects.) Tell me more about the scenes in the Jedi Council, as it's possible you were talking about cinematography there.

The topic was about bad filmmaking. I'd like to see a bad photograph that George Lucas took. They do exist.
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  #1504  
Old 03-18-2017, 10:32 PM
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On that note, does anybody know if there's a sane way to play a blu-ray under Windows 10
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  #1505  
Old 03-19-2017, 01:32 AM
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What are you considering a shot here? Because I'm coming from the standpoint of a shot being any uninterrupted sequence of frames, so OK, some of those above don't qualify by that measure, but stuff like Obi-Wan throwing the blaster should. The shot that made it into the film is the shot, even if effects were added to it, so that's what I'm judging. Maybe you meant a badly blocked shot, but that's not what you said. And those bad effects are part of the shot, since Lucas loves to splice pieces of different shots together and the source material can't be viewed independently.

Last edited by Sarcasmorator; 03-19-2017 at 01:43 AM.
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  #1506  
Old 03-19-2017, 01:48 AM
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Maybe I was misunderstanding your intentions, but I interpreted most of that list as being about the story concept expressed in them, e.g. disliking that the farting camel exists.
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  #1507  
Old 03-19-2017, 02:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Bongo Bill View Post
On that note, does anybody know if there's a sane way to play a blu-ray under Windows 10
They removed Windows Media Player, so probably something like VLC.
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  #1508  
Old 03-19-2017, 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Bongo Bill View Post
On that note, does anybody know if there's a sane way to play a blu-ray under Windows 10
I don't know how sane you would call it but since I never found any good, free blu-ray player programs I use MakeMKV to extract the files from the disc to the hard drive. Then you can use VLC or Media Player Classic to watch the videos off the hard drive.
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  #1509  
Old 03-19-2017, 03:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bongo Bill View Post
Find a bad shot from a prequel.
I remember hating flubber Yoda.
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  #1510  
Old 03-19-2017, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bongo Bill View Post
Maybe I was misunderstanding your intentions, but I interpreted most of that list as being about the story concept expressed in them, e.g. disliking that the farting camel exists.
It's entirely possible for them to be both. I mean, I'm not eager to see a camel farting, but if you're going to have that gag, you better do it well.

And I fucking loved the concept and general intention behind the prequels. They just have a lot of stuff that is very distracting and doesn't work, unless you're into that mindset of cutting Lucas some major slack.
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  #1511  
Old 03-19-2017, 09:54 AM
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It's entirely possible for them to be both. I mean, I'm not eager to see a camel farting, but if you're going to have that gag, you better do it well.
Yes, exactly. A fart joke can be fine, even funny. The original trilogy is hilarious, and that includes some pratfall humor, like C-3PO throughout Empire, because his prissy whining lightens up some very dire circumstances for everyone. It works because it has a purpose. Almost every attempt at comedy is just there to be a dumb joke, and in TPM falls as flat as the groundhogs in Crystal Skull.

A bad shot can also be a superfluous one, which adds nothing to the film but puts a drag on the pacing.

I don't think I complained about any story elements above; only about their execution.

The prequel trilogy as a whole is like a drawing from an artist with a poor sense of composition. This detail is perfect, that shading is wonderful. Parts of it work, but they don't all fit together right, and some important bits are just sketched in. It's ... it's a Rob Liefeld drawing of a trilogy.
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  #1512  
Old 03-19-2017, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bongo Bill View Post
A bad shot. None of those are shots. (Some of them might be bad effects.) Tell me more about the scenes in the Jedi Council, as it's possible you were talking about cinematography there.
I'm pretty sure we had this conversation a couple years back. So I'm going to turn it around - what are shots from the prequels that you find particularly great, and why? And I promise I'm not just asking this so I (or other Tyrants) can shoot them down.

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Originally Posted by Sarcasmorator View Post
A bad shot can also be a superfluous one, which adds nothing to the film but puts a drag on the pacing.
I'd say that's more of an editing issue.
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  #1513  
Old 03-19-2017, 10:09 AM
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I guess? Shoot a drag of a shot differently and it can work, so imo the problem can be both at once, but that doesn't let the shot off the hook.
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  #1514  
Old 03-19-2017, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Sarcasmorator View Post
I guess? Shoot a drag of a shot differently and it can work, so imo the problem can be both at once, but that doesn't let the shot off the hook.
Yeah, cinematography and editing definitely work in sync, and I'm not denying that. I just think Bongo is specifically thinking in terms of bad framing, lighting, and generally anything that pertains to the shot as a still image. A shot can be both beautiful and completely superfluous, if it serves no purpose in forwarding the narrative, themes, etc.
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  #1515  
Old 03-19-2017, 11:08 AM
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What's the point of the question, Bongo?

Also: "One man's trash is another man's treasure." Some of us can find "shots" that are boring, silly or "bad" (Incompetent? Not following the "rule of thirds" for photography?) and you will counter or deflect by pointing all the ways they're good under some random, specious criteria. So I think this exercise is pointless.

One way you'll definitely do this is play semantic games. Because Sarc did draw examples of bad shots (see bullet points #3, #5 and #7 at the very least) and you handwaved them all completely by demanding examples under a specific, restricted sense of the word "shot," which, considering this is a medium of moving images, is a ridiculous demand. But whatever.
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  #1516  
Old 03-19-2017, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
semantic
actually
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  #1517  
Old 03-19-2017, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
One way you'll definitely do this is play semantic games. Because Sarc did draw examples of bad shots (see bullet points #3, #5 and #7 at the very least) and you handwaved them all completely by demanding examples under a specific, restricted sense of the word "shot," which, considering this is a medium of moving images, is a ridiculous demand. But whatever.
Ah yes, the "No True Wookiee" argument.
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  #1518  
Old 03-19-2017, 11:30 AM
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The reason I ask is because I was trying to get at exactly what was meant by describing the prequels as technically poor in aspects of cinematography and staging. The cinematography and staging are the parts that I found particularly good.
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  #1519  
Old 03-19-2017, 02:40 PM
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Pretty much ANY exposition dump is shot in the flattest, most colorless way imaginable, but the shots of Oh Big One, Yoda, and Mace walking around in their brown and sepia robes in an endless brown and sepia CGI corridor specifically come to mind as poor cinematography.
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  #1520  
Old 03-19-2017, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bongo Bill View Post
Find a bad shot from a prequel.
As we've discussed before, the space battle over Coruscant at the start of Ep III is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too busy. It leads to a bunch of badly-composed shots because there's just too much background noise.

(And for the record, my biggest gripe with the prequels is that I will go to my grave thinking that they fucked up the order of the scenes between Anakin and Padme on Naboo in Ep II. The dinner scene seems like it's the emotional climax of the sequence - Anakin confesses his love for Padme, gets shot down - but then it's followed by a bunch of scenes of them showing increased affection for each other.)

Anyway, since we have a whole other thread for endless griping about the prequels: TIL that they were worried the Ackbar puppet wouldn't be convincing, so there's footage of General Madine saying all of Ackbar's dialogue in Jedi.

(Also, Madine's beard was fake, because Kenner had made the toy first and it had a beard while the actor was clean-shaven.)
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  #1521  
Old 03-19-2017, 06:55 PM
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They also had a bunch of female pilots that they either cut out or dubbed over with a male voice.
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  #1522  
Old 03-19-2017, 08:16 PM
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I actually like the SFX shots of the Coruscant battle a lot. I'm generally not a fan of clusterfuck space battles in sci-fi, since they tend to substitute scope and spectacle for a strong narrative thrust. But the tight focus on Obi-Wan and Anakin's fighters helps ameliorate all the noise. And I think that initial tracking shot of the fighters overflying the Republic Cruiser and flying into the pitched battle is one of the best blocked and most electric shots in the series this side of the Trench Run or Hoth Asteroid Belt.

I think in general CGI didn't produce better visual outcomes in the PT than Dykstra and all the makeup artists and mupeteers managed in the OT. But I do think the Coruscant battle is a good use of the tech. There's a spacial coherence to the scene that's only allowed for by rendering everything at once, instead of having to photograph and composite all the elements. I mean, Rogue One probably does it better in a better* movie, but I still might prefer Coruscant to Death Star II, at least until the characters start talking.
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  #1523  
Old 03-19-2017, 08:20 PM
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The shot of Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Mace Windu walking down the great hall of the temple in Revenge of the Sith is a pretty bad one, yeah. The lighting in the matte painting doesn't match the angle of the lighting in the foreground, for one thing.

The worst set in the prequels is the ship that Anakin and Padme travel in incognito in Attack of the Clones. They're only there for a very brief scene, but there's just no visual interest at all.
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