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  #1  
Old 08-23-2012, 06:13 AM
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Default Talking During Movies: MST3k, Rifftrax, Cinematic Titanic

We were having a bit of MST3k discussion over in the Awesome Fanart Thunderdome and rather than resurrect a thread that hasn't had anything posted in it in three years I thought I'd just make a new one.

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Originally Posted by Zef View Post
OK, I know it's just a show and I should really just relax, but since I enjoy the characters now I'm dying to know how the hell the Satellite of Love got its dog-bone shape, how Gypsy and Tom got upgraded, and who Doctor F's previous assistant was (I've only ever seen him with Frank.)
There's a lot of information out there as far as the history of the show. The MST3k Temple, while definitely hailing from a whole other era of the internet, does a fantastic job of tracing the history and minutiae of the show.

But I can at least answer your question about Dr. Erhardt. Here he is with Dr. F:



Just a kid! I think he left the show when he was 18 years old.

Anyway, in more recent Riffing news: Did anybody go to see Manos: The Hands of Fate Rifftrax Live? I was in the theater the crew were broadcasting from because it was a relatively close drive for me and I just didn't want to miss the opportunity. I thought the riffs were awesome though I kind of wish they had waited until the remastered version had come out. That would have been great.
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Old 08-23-2012, 01:23 PM
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Three things to get people started with MST3K if they've never watched it before.
Shorts! They're easier to get through than a full episode and are often funnier. Plus they're all over Youtube.
Poopie! The unbelievably great outtakes video.
Space Mutiny! One of the funniest episodes. Crunch Bonemeal!
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:16 PM
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I maintain that The Movie is one of the best ways to introduce folks to the show. It puts host segments almost purely on the back burner in favor of the show's meat. It came at a point in the show's life where the writing was starting to get really sharp, and This Island Earth is just awful enough to make for some great riffing, but not so awful that it's distracting. The only thing I might knock against it is that some of the jokes date it a little more than other episodes.

I'd also recommend Danger! Death Ray. It's my favorite episode, so I'm a bit biased, but the submarine sequence is simply the best thing they've ever riffed on.
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Old 08-23-2012, 04:44 PM
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The Movie is probably the best way to get someone introduced to the show, yes, but it overall isn't one of their stronger efforts. The MST alum have told endless stories about how studio interference really made their lives complete hell during production.

I have no preference toward Joel or Mike, but I would still say stuff from the Sci-Fi era is best for newcomers. You can tell the moment Bill Corbett jumped onboard as Crow that the writing became less about smirking at the movies and more about mercilessly destroying them. The Joel era was certainly a lot kinder at first glance.

That said, here are three episodes from both the Joel and Mike eras that I'd recommend for new viewers:

Joel

- #212: Godzilla vs. Megalon (silliness applied to maybe the worst Godzilla film ever made)
- #505: Eegah! (Bad music! Richard Kiel as a caveman! Disgusting overtones all around!)
- #507: I Accuse My Parents (Apparently Joel's favorite episode. It's a masterful viewing of how they would slowly dismantle a movie through endless running jokes.)

Why not Manos or Mitchell? The former because it is NOT a film for newcomers and the latter, though amazing, because having Joel's final episode be a first episode is um...weird.

Honorable mentions: Warrior Of The Lost World, Pod People, Earth vs. The Spider...any of the Gamera films.

Mike

- #820: Space Mutiny (You've probably already heard about this one, if only for a certain meme. It also uses footage from original BSG for no reason.)
- #822: Overdrawn At The Memory Bank (PBS! Raul Julia! Huge slams on anteaters out of nowhere!)
- #904: Werewolf (Horrible werewolf movie, actors with randomly-changing accents (and hair color) throughout, a lead female actress who has "absolutely fascinating" line reads, random Joe Estevez sightings and more.)

Honorable mentions: Giant Spider Invasion, Prince of Space, Pumaman, The Final Sacrifice (specifically for Canadians), Merlin's Shop of Mystical Wonders

Why not Hobgoblins? Again, it's a classic episode featuring a really, really, really bad movie. Unless you like 80s monster schlock, it shouldn't be your first episode. I'd also stay away from some of Season 6 until you're ready, as the Coleman Francis trilogy (Skydivers, Red Zone Cuba and Beast Of Yucca Flats) is not easy. Season 10 is also pretty dire at times, though it also has some of my favorite random episodes.

Last edited by PT; 08-23-2012 at 10:46 PM.
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  #5  
Old 08-23-2012, 05:16 PM
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Coincidently I just started getting back into this! I watched Merlin's Shop a few days ago and it's easily the worst movie I've seen all year. Yeeech!
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Old 08-23-2012, 06:12 PM
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I love both Joel and Mike but they do bring distinctly different flavors to your MST3K experience. I tend to enjoy Mike episodes more often but anyone preferring one guy over the other to the extent that they won't watch the other guy's episodes is definitely depriving themselves of great stuff.

Some things you notice about how they roll differently:

-Joel is more mellow and world-weary, seeming to accept his captivity with a glum smile and subtly snarky subservience. As the builder of the Bots he tends to treat them more like children with fatherly tones and reassurances. His snarking style tends to lean towards that stoner friend who makes clever disarming remarks, and it makes it pretty funny when a movie does something so heinous that it actually aggrivates him (Manos has a stellar example). His episodes follow the formula pretty strongly for the most part, with invention exchanges at the beginning and fanmail at the end and few big plot revelations to mix things up in-between theater segments.

-Mike is more upbeat and spunky. He acts much more rebellious towards The Mads/Pearl with mischief and sarcasm, and treats the Bots more like annoying roommates. He's snappier with his jokes and is more likely to become emotionally devastated along with the bots at the more aggressively bad films. His episodes, especially by the Sci-Fi era, focus a lot more on changes to the plot and a running continuity in the sketches between theater segments, to the point where eventually invention exchanges and fanmail are abandoned altogether to focus on a larger cast of supporting characters and development. His episodes also tend to have a very noticeably higher budget. And that's saying something considering how campy it all still looks.
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Old 08-23-2012, 08:04 PM
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I guess I better repost this here!



I've only really watched a smattering of episodes, because we didn't get MST3K in Mexico so my only access was through the DVD releases. And the boxsets are outrageously expensive! ...though I'm still more than tempted by the sets that come with a mini-Tom or Gypsy My favorites, from the ones I've seen, natch, would be Mitchell, The Movie, Santa Claus, and Prince of Space. And of course, I count last week's Manos Live Rifftrax as a full-fledged MST I tried watching The Brain That Wouldn't Die to see Mike's introduction, but it was a fairly ho-hum episode altogether.

I don't really remember the shorts, though. I remember laughing like a madman at the one about springs, but I don't even remember its title or the movie it was attached to :/ But hey, with everything up on Netflix, I have a LOT of MSTings to catch up with!
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Old 08-23-2012, 08:22 PM
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Fun fact: the guy who runs Ballyhoo Productions, which does the MST3k DVD features, lives in my town, and I got to meet him last year at my film club, where he was showing a documentary he'd made about that night's feature, Dark Night of the Scarecrow. Cool guy.

I'll second I Accuse My Parents. I also have kind of a soft spot for the Hercules movies and The Violent Years.

And pretty much any kaiju movie. But I like kaiju anyway.
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  #9  
Old 08-23-2012, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanagi View Post
Shorts! They're easier to get through than a full episode and are often funnier. Plus they're all over Youtube.
This thread is timely - just in the past couple of weeks I've gotten back into MST3K in a major way, and it's because I learned that you can find ANY episode on Youtube. I finally got to see classics like Mitchell, Hobgoblins and Pumaman, visit old favorites like Girl in the Gold Boots, Prince of Space and Cave Dwellers, and experience lesser known delights like Deathstalker and the Warriors from Hell, The Dragon and the Sword, and Girls Town.
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:43 PM
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Pumaman was really special. Most MST3k fodder is just sad dull and uncomfortable without the commentary, but here we had this almost-passable superhero movie and a legitimately catchy theme song.
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  #11  
Old 08-23-2012, 11:15 PM
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Default From the Say Something Nice Dept.

I Accuse My Parents is a favorite of mine, too. The movie is not bad by MST3K standards, mostly because the lead actors do a good job of making their dopey characters likable. The sound is good. The cheesiness and frequent resort to cliches comes off as funny instead of annoying.

Another relatively good one, The Thing That Wouldn't Die has distinct characters that actually develop throughout the movie. Part of why it's such a great MST3K episode is because the riffers get a lot to play off of with these characters. And it's actually fun to watch them get corrupted by The Thing. In fact, if the focus of the movie was on Jessica turning evil and screwing with the others, it'd be awesome.

The Undead - Far from good, but I have to give it some credit for being complex and ambitious. This is a movie where a time-traveling, hubristic hypnotist matches wits with Satan, and they aren't even the main characters.

Time Chasers - Another one with ambition. The script hits all the high points of time travel plots. There's more brain here than in most movies that take on the subject.

Soultaker - Just reshoot this one with better actors and it'd be pretty good. Oh, and lose the shapeshifting incest stalker WTF scene.

Hamlet - Yeah, this script might be salvageable.

Diabolik - I honestly LOVE the music. It's at odds with the mercenary nature of the title character, but it's just so groovy.
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Old 08-24-2012, 03:36 AM
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Santa Claus Conquers the Martians is near the top of my list for episodes you'd introduce someone to the series with, it stands alone well, there's later callbacks to some of the jokes and the movie is just so amazingly awful that it actually loops back around and becomes fun to watch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torgo View Post
I'd also recommend Danger! Death Ray. It's my favorite episode, so I'm a bit biased, but the submarine sequence is simply the best thing they've ever riffed on.
"Special effects by: Billy!"

I'm going to toss my hat in on The Movie as the best way to start with the series and agree on the general praise for I Accuse My Parents.

City Limits is another "this movie would almost be watchable on its own" entry. Gamera, Secret Agent Super Dragon and Agent for H.A.R.M. would also be on the short list of things someone new to the series could stomach.
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Old 08-24-2012, 04:00 AM
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Quote:
I Accuse My Parents
Moment for moment very possibly the best of the Joel era. And quotable as heck: Just this evening something happened at work and I said, "That guy is eavesdropping on his eavesdropping."

(The most quotable episode, for the record, is Mitchell.)
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  #14  
Old 08-24-2012, 05:23 AM
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Hot Merging Action.
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  #15  
Old 08-24-2012, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkpen View Post
His episodes, especially by the Sci-Fi era, focus a lot more on changes to the plot and a running continuity in the sketches between theater segments, to the point where eventually invention exchanges and fanmail are abandoned altogether to focus on a larger cast of supporting characters and development.
If I remember correctly, Mike actually stopped doing invention exchanges because Joel actually made all of the wacky inventions that showed up each week himself and Mike just didn't have the kind of mind to come up with that stuff.
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Old 08-24-2012, 05:40 AM
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On an almost unrelated note, people who actually talk through movies deserve to be flayed in front of their children.

The one episode and movie of MST3K that I saw were good.
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Old 08-24-2012, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teg View Post
If I remember correctly, Mike actually stopped doing invention exchanges because Joel actually made all of the wacky inventions that showed up each week himself and Mike just didn't have the kind of mind to come up with that stuff.
Truth! Before he made Mystery Science Theater 3000, Joel had a props-based comedian/magician act where he claimed that all of his props came from the Mystery Science Lab. Dude was always making weird stuff.

I think I might recommend Time Chasers as an introductory episode. The movie itself is new enough that it won't seem completely alien and boring (like a lot of those old black and white scifi movies will) to a modern viewer, but is still pretty laughably bad. The riffs are also pretty spectacular and really pick the movie completely apart ("I'll walk back to the past!")
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Old 08-24-2012, 07:36 AM
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Has anyone mentioned Jack Frost yet? I find that one more re-watchable than most.

I was a huge MST3K fan in grade school, and I still watch them every now and then. I've seen 2 or 3 of the Rifftrax live events (including Manos), and I have the Rifftrax versions of 300 and I think Startrek V (which I've only seen once, with their commentary).

I'll second Mitchell (my favorite one), Pumaman, Eegah, and the shorts. There are a ton of others I'm forgetting.
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Old 08-24-2012, 03:00 PM
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I made that old, dead thread! And three years later, I've seen a lot more MST3k and Rifftrax.

Favorite MST3k episodes: Werewolf, Pumaman, The Final Sacrifice, Overdrawn at the Memory Bank, and Space Mutiny.

Wait, are those all Mike episodes? I really don't care about Mike vs. Joel stuff because they're both funny in different ways, but those ones happen to be my favorites.

Favorite Rifftrax... well, they're all pretty good! I've seen Star Wars (original trilogy), Twilight, Raiders of the Lost Ark, 300, The Matrix trilogy, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Plan 9 from Outer Space, Roadhouse, Little Shop of Horrors (the old one, not the one with Rick Moranis), and probably a bunch of others as well that I've forgotten.

Seeing the Manos performance in the movie theater was really amazing, though. I was kind of apprehensive because I had seen the original MST3k episode before and it was just. so. bad. But they did a great job with it! I have never laughed as hard or as much while watching a movie in a theater. Definitely gotta see their performance for Birdemic.
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Old 08-24-2012, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeaceTalk View Post
- #904: Werewolf (Horrible werewolf movie, actors with randomly-changing accents (and hair color) throughout, a lead female actress who has "absolutely fascinating" line reads, random Joe Estevez sightings and more.)
The "and more" featuring a hilarious musical number with the bots dressed up like a 50's teenybopper girl band.

I would like to re-watch MST3K more often, as I have a ton of the tapes and have seen them all at least once, plus many of the DVDs. It's just that, well, it's time consuming, sadly. At least there's rifftrax for tolerating today's crap.
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Old 08-24-2012, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
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The Final Sacrifice
How did I forget this?!
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Old 08-24-2012, 08:06 PM
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Patrick! Jack Frost is my favorite episode, as the material is that tried and true Russo-Finnish fairy tale withe sharpness of lare-series writing skill. The end result is razor-sharp, merciless mocking, but with a layer of obvious affection. Plus one of the skits references Sanford, Maine, the town I went to high school in.

Close second is Merlin's Shop. "I'm a pillow with features!" "Try the Merlin Chop: a half-pound slice of Merlin served with steak fries, veg-a-tab-le of the day, and whhhipped dessert." "Grampa Borgnine, no!"
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Old 08-24-2012, 09:15 PM
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Best Short: The Home Economics Story

Best Film: The Final Sacrifice

For introductory purposes, pretty much anything in Season 3 is a good bet, with the exception of The Castle of Fu-Manchu (not only do the movie's dubious casting decisions take away from an already mediocre movie, they seriously derail the riffing too.)
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Old 08-24-2012, 09:20 PM
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Jack Frost is my favorite episode, with Space Mutiny in second place. The problem with my favorite episodes is that I've seen them all so many times that they don't make me laugh much anymore, so whenever I go to watch an episode on YouTube, I end up with a B-tier episode and I end up having a good time, regardless.

My favorite short is Uncle Jim's Dairy Farm. A Case of Spring Fever is waaaay up there, though.
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Old 08-25-2012, 05:26 AM
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My favorite episodes are invariably the ones with the least likeable protagonists, so obviously I am a huge fan of Warrior of the Lost World and Final Justice (not to be confused with Final Sacrifice - this guy is no Zap Rowsdower). I'm also a big fan of Riding with Death, which is in the "two episodes of a tv show slammed together to make one incoherent movie" genre, and Soul Taker just because it stars Joe "Did You Know Martin Sheen Had a Brother?" Estevez.
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Old 08-25-2012, 07:24 AM
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My personal favorite episode of MST3K. I owned the VHS when I was younger and I watched it so many times that I practically wore out the tape.

"Trumpy, you can do stupid things!"

I haven't checked out Rifftrax or Cinematic Titanic so I can't speak for them, but I will say that I enjoy the hell out of MST3K though I have only seen a pretty small percentage of the episodes. There's tons of them, and at 90 minutes each, they require a higher level of commitment than say an episode of Simpsons or Always Sunny or whatever.
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Old 08-25-2012, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosencrantz View Post
My favorite short is Uncle Jim's Dairy Farm.
Yes, definitely. I think it might be the short with the highest ratio of dark humor to wholesome imagery. Every joke is about how spending the summer on a dairy farm is a nightmare of forced labor and animal cruelty and insane, controlling relatives. Also "I-I gotta be careful of my new jeans, 'cause I got 'em at Pamida!" "That's JAM HANDY!"

Plus "Bloodlust" is one of the best epsisodes in general, easily in my top 5. I would even say it's perfect as a "first episode" episode: it's not heavy on show lore (such as it is) while giving perfect, weird little character interactions. Mike going off to be Kenny G, Crow and Tom's therapy sessions, Dr. F being cruel and demanding while also sniveling, and the introduction of Pearl! Who likes the adorable Frank much more than her own son. The host segments here kind of encapsulate the entire series.

What I'm saying is, go watch Bloodlust on Youtube right now, even if you've already seen it. I can't believe they only made one Brady Bunch joke, I feel like if it were a later series episode or Rifftrax, they'd be going back to that well again and again.

So hey, speaking of, do people prefer Rifftrax or Cinematic Titanic? I feel like CT has more of the classic MST3K feel, aside fom the shadow characters. The jokes are more like seasons 3-7, whereas Rifftrax has been leaning much more on pop culture references and internet humor. I still like them both but I wish CT was capable of the output of Rifftrax.
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Old 08-25-2012, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessorS View Post
"Trumpy, you can do stupid things!"
"A sack of monkeys in my pocket, your sister's ready to go..."

I had Pod People in mind when I wrote my last post but forgot to include it!
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Old 08-25-2012, 10:22 AM
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"Steady as a goat, we're flying over trout..."


He's really good, isn't he?
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Old 08-25-2012, 01:04 PM
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The best short is probably a two-way tie between The Truck Farmer (paired with I Accuse My Parents) and Progress Island U.S.A (paired with The Beast of Yucca Flats).

Speaking of The Beast, I gotta give to Colman Francis for making a film so bad that I almost couldn't get through it. It pays off after a couple viewings, but The Beast is one of the most insufferably awful films they've ever riffed on. It'd definitely go in my top list, but if there's an episode I wouldn't recommend for a first-timer, it's that one.

And Zef mentioned it, but Santa Claus. No, not Conquers the Martians, the one where Santa fights Satan and runs a sweatshop filled with ethnic stereotypes.
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