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  #31  
Old 12-29-2011, 07:50 PM
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and that's inter-cut with behind-the-scenes footage of Lucas just sitting behind two monitors with each camera on them. I mean, sure, he's getting old, and probably doesn't have the stamina to direct these people on his feet like he did back when he was making A New Hope, but COME ON.
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  #32  
Old 12-29-2011, 07:53 PM
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In my opinion, the original Star Wars Trilogy is unmatched.

LOTR and Harry Potter are trying to emulate what Star Wars perfected decades ago: a compelling fantasy universe with characters that the audience identifies with and cares about.

Darth Vader is easily the most iconic villain ever committed to celluloid.
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  #33  
Old 12-29-2011, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Loki View Post
The part of Red Letter Media's dissection that really shocked me is in their Phantom Menace review where it's revealed that every conversation is shot with the characters walking, then stopping in front of computer generated loveliness, maybe the character sit down, but basically it's the most boring, redundant, and generic direction ever.

I was all like "fuck!"
Oh yeah. Once you even hear about this, you can't watch or remember those movies without seeing how every shot is carefully formatted to not require anything that a Green Screen box can't deliver. And they really suffer for it.

I've read a couple articles recently about indie movie producers deciding that 3D special effects aren't worth all the money they have to spend on them. They can get better results at a fraction of the cost using old-fashioned models and doing a bit of digital post-production.
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  #34  
Old 12-29-2011, 09:23 PM
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Haters gonna hate. I like Episode I & II and I don't care who knows it. I also enjoyed Shadows of the Empire (the game) and most everything I've read of the Expanded Universe (which is probably only a tenth of what's out there but still). Star Wars is awesome.

Revenge of the Sith is so awful though. I can square with Jar Jar Binks, Ewoks, and all that goofy nonsense that Lucas is always so bent on. I can forgive whiny kid Anakin and the glaring plot hole of him building C-3P0. Revenge of the Sith, however... it has its moments in the actiony bits, to be sure, but the acting in it is sooo baaaaad. I mean, I'll admit that Attack of the Clones had some quality ham in there, and I might go so far as to say that if you're expecting high storytelling out of Star Wars you're Doing It Wrong, but Sith is absolutely cringe-worthy from beginning to end.

YOUNGLINGS IS NOT A WORD THEY'RE CALLED CHILDREN AUUGHH~
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  #35  
Old 12-29-2011, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Egarwaen View Post
I've read a couple articles recently about indie movie producers deciding that 3D special effects aren't worth all the money they have to spend on them. They can get better results at a fraction of the cost using old-fashioned models and doing a bit of digital post-production.
Yeah, Tom Hooper (the dude who directed The King's Speech) uses inflatable peoples for crowed scenes.

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Originally Posted by Wikipedia Sez..
The opening scene, set at the closing ceremony of the 1925 British Empire Exhibition at Wembley Stadium, was filmed on location at Elland Road, home of Leeds United, and Odsal Stadium, home of the Bradford Bulls. Elland Road was used for the speech elements of the prince stammering his way through his first public address, and Odsal Stadium was selected because of the resemblance of its curved ends to Wembley Stadium in 1925.[23] The crew had access to the stadium only at 10 pm, after a football game. They filled the terraces with inflatable dummies and over 250 extras dressed in period costumes. Live actors were interspersed to give the impression of a crowd. Additional people, as well as more ranks of soldiers on the pitch, were added in post-production with visual effects.
I guess he also used inflatable dudes for a crowd scene in his earlier film The Damned United, but I haven't seen that.
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  #36  
Old 12-29-2011, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
Return of the Jedi will always be my favourite. Everything from Luke and Leia's last conversation onward is really what I'm in this for. It really is a tremendous payoff.
I feel you. I accept that Empire is the best, and I don't like the Care Bears scenes, but it's a great way to end the trilogy. It has the best lightsaber battle AND space fight of the original trilogy. Not to mention the speeder chase. Jedi is a great movie which is sadly held back by those stupid stupid STUPID Ewoks.
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  #37  
Old 12-29-2011, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Voncaster View Post
LOTR
If you're talking film-wise then yeah.
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  #38  
Old 12-29-2011, 10:32 PM
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If you're talking film-wise then yeah.
Yes I was comparing film franchises.
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  #39  
Old 12-29-2011, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Mightyblue View Post
tl;dr latter day George Lucas is insane.
Latter day nothing. He didn't write the script for any of the real Star Wars movies, but is responsible for THX-1138, and seriously pushed for Indiana Jones to be a pedophile while brainstorming Raiders.

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You're the first person I know of who thinks the whole serial killer thing is compelling in its own right rather than an annoying distraction (well, the second if Plinkett counts.)
I really liked it in Phantom Menace, past that it started to feel really forced and ate up too much time.
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  #40  
Old 12-30-2011, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Googleshng View Post
Latter day nothing. He didn't write the script for any of the real Star Wars movies, but is responsible for THX-1138, and seriously pushed for Indiana Jones to be a pedophile while brainstorming Raiders.
I thought he did write the script for the original Star Wars, which is one reason why it's among the weakest of the original trilogy?

At any rate, I'm a firm believer in the idea that creativity requires cooperation and constraint. The fact that the three Star Wars movies made solo with an unlimited budget blow is one of my primary points of evidence. Among the supporting evidence is the fact that one of the scriptwriters for Jedi wanted the movie to end with Solo and Chewie dead, Luke storming off because of Leia's "betrayal" with Han, and Leia standing there in despair with the handful of rebel survivors, unable to think of what to do next.

Scuttlebutt is Lucas made him change it. Ewok Dance Party may not be the ideal ending, but it's sure as hell better than that.

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Originally Posted by Alixsar View Post
I feel you. I accept that Empire is the best, and I don't like the Care Bears scenes, but it's a great way to end the trilogy. It has the best lightsaber battle AND space fight of the original trilogy. Not to mention the speeder chase. Jedi is a great movie which is sadly held back by those stupid stupid STUPID Ewoks.
I... Kinda like the Ewoks. I think they're an adorable reminder not to take the films too seriously. If Jar-jar had been more like the Ewoks, I'd have had less of a problem with him.

Instead we got Magic Negro v2.0.
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  #41  
Old 12-30-2011, 02:33 AM
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Ewok dance party is a little lame, but I dig that Vader was cremated.

Although it kind of bugged me as a kid. The idea of cremation, that is, but now the idea of not being cremated bugs me.

EDIT: Actually, I just rewatched the ending of ROTJ and it's pretty good! The cremation scene is nice, Luke comes to the party and hugs everyone (Including Han! I like it when dudes hug each other, I guess), has a moment looking off at some blue force ghosts, and then goes back to the party. Nice stuff.

I think I used to be kind of mad about the ewoks (after liking them as a child), but a year and a half ago I just watched parts of the Star Wars movies in Japanese since someone had uploaded the dub and I was curious about the voices. Anyway, it got to the scene where an ewok is on a glider and dropping rocks on stormtroopers and I just smiled and said to myself "Haha.. Star Wars is dumb". And that's why it's great!

Last edited by Posaune; 12-30-2011 at 02:45 AM.
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  #42  
Old 12-30-2011, 03:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Egarwaen View Post
I... Kinda like the Ewoks. I think they're an adorable reminder not to take the films too seriously. If Jar-jar had been more like the Ewoks, I'd have had less of a problem with him.
I thought they were annoying when I was five and they have only gotten more so with time. The absolute worst part of the entire Ewok menance is when they show the one dead one and the other one shaking it, as if to say GET UP MAN WHY WONT YOU GET UPPPP and sad music plays.

Not only do they shamelessly interest MOTHERFUCKING TEDDY BEARS into a Star Wars movie, but they KILL ONE OFF IN A TEARJERKER MOMENT. It's fucking stupid and it's been stupid since forever. Thankfully, the non-Ewok moments of Jedi are good enough that I can forgive it but it has always always always bugged the fuck out of me that there are midget teddy bears in Star Wars.
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  #43  
Old 12-30-2011, 04:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Egarwaen View Post
I thought he did write the script for the original Star Wars, which is one reason why it's among the weakest of the original trilogy?
Lucas wrote something like 9 screenplays which can be found floating around the internet if you look hard enough, all of which were terrible by all accounts, bloated with a lot of political talk and unrelatable weirdoes, as one would now expect, and so far removed from what we got that it's like hearing Dark Star was the original script for Aliens or something. It'd be neat if someone actually polished up a remix and filmed it some time. The actual script they shot with is the result of Lucas finally saying @%#$ it and having a couple friends "help," at which point they pretty much just cherry picked out a couple things that sorta worked, and wrote them into an otherwise completely fresh script for him.*

* Or at least, I recall that being that the direction I recall the evidence was pointing in this pretty freaking thorough wad of research I read through on all this once.

Quote:
At any rate, I'm a firm believer in the idea that creativity requires cooperation and constraint. The fact that the three Star Wars movies made solo with an unlimited budget blow is one of my primary points of evidence. Among the supporting evidence is the fact that one of the scriptwriters for Jedi wanted the movie to end with Solo and Chewie dead, Luke storming off because of Leia's "betrayal" with Han, and Leia standing there in despair with the handful of rebel survivors, unable to think of what to do next.
Are you sure about that? I mean, it had the same writer as Empire, and that would kinda seem to seriously contradict a lot of the foreshadowing from it.

Quote:
I... Kinda like the Ewoks. I think they're an adorable reminder not to take the films too seriously.
I have seriously never understood the ewok hate. They're a race of fuzzy little savages who help fight, with heavy losses, a proper civilized military force using guerilla tactics and a greater familiarity with the terrain, which is Generally A Pretty Solid Concept. They really aren't that cutesy (I mean, they indisputably eat humans and hollow out their skulls for drums). And the only real argument most people seem to muster in defense of hating on'em is that the original plan was for them to be wookies... which are the exact same freaking thing, just taller. And height discrimination is messed up yo.
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  #44  
Old 12-30-2011, 06:06 AM
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I thought the Red Letter Media serial killer thing was pretty entertaining actually. I don't really know why he chose that particular backdrop, but I like the idea of the review actually being in the frame of a narrative. It is funny in that it infers that this guy who's incredibly despicable and terrible, who should be completely numb to all levels of atrocities, is troubled by Star Wars. Maybe it's not the best joke in the world, but it's clever and well done.

I also agree with Google that I'd love to see someone take one of the original scripts of Star Wars and film it. We'll probably have to wait until Lucas is dead to see that happen, but I'd line up to see that. Girl Luke? Storm Troopers with light sabers? Hells yeah.
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  #45  
Old 12-30-2011, 07:49 AM
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Someone with some hardcore Star Wars knowledge is probably about to come along and school me on this, but I've always found one thing really funny about the series. The prequels would have you believe that the Jedi were a massive political and peacekeeping force in the galaxy, but barely twenty years later, Han Solo is all HAHA OH YOU MEAN THAT ANCIENT RELIGION????????

I mean... Jesus, Han. I wasn't perhaps the most observant ten year old, but if my world had been populated by somersaulting psychic monks with laser swords, I think that's a memory I would probably have held onto into my adult life. Maybe Han just has an undiagnosed brain tumor. Is that covered in the novels?
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  #46  
Old 12-30-2011, 07:59 AM
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What's even better is the middle-aged Imperial apparatchik who would have been like, twenty at least when the deal went down expressing his doubts in no uncertain terms to the Giant Cyborg Death Wizard during the Death Star staff meeting.
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  #47  
Old 12-30-2011, 08:05 AM
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Man, inconsistencies in Star Wars canon are like hints of homoeroticism in 80s action movies. Apologists will try to explain them away, but wishing don't make it so.
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  #48  
Old 12-30-2011, 09:17 AM
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George's approach to continuity can be summed up by how Obi-Wan tells Luke about his father, and what he does when it comes back to bite him in the third movie.
First he says one thing, then instead of admitting he lied or changed his mind, he just fudges an explanation that absolves him of having made any mistake whatsoever.
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  #49  
Old 12-30-2011, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Dart Zaidyer View Post
George's approach to continuity can be summed up by how Obi-Wan tells Luke about his father, and what he does when it comes back to bite him in the third movie.
First he says one thing, then instead of admitting he lied or changed his mind, he just fudges an explanation that absolves him of having made any mistake whatsoever.
"'A certain point of view'?"

"Yes. And if he ever tells you that I cut off his arms and legs and left him to burn to death in unspeakable agony at the shores of a river of lava, well, that's just HIS point of view. "
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  #50  
Old 12-30-2011, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Posaune View Post
Ewok dance party is a little lame, but I dig that Vader was cremated.
I guess I kind of assumed it was just his armor at that point? Like he disappeared like Obi-Wan and Yoda, only offscreen. Nothing to really back that up, though.

The Ewoks are fine and, yeah, not really that cutesy. They were going to burn everyone alive until Luke tricked them into thinking C-3P0 was a god.
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  #51  
Old 12-30-2011, 09:59 AM
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I feel like I'm the only person who liked the new Ewok dance party music from the Special Edition more than the original music.

I also liked the part in Revenge of the Sith where Palpatine implies that Darth Plagueis controlled midichlorians to create Anakin. I mean, I'd rather the whole "virgin birth" thing not be in the movies at all, but I thought it was better than just leaving it as The Force Did It.
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  #52  
Old 12-30-2011, 10:06 AM
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One note in favor of the prequels: Without them, we might not have Darths & Droids.
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  #53  
Old 12-30-2011, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Rosencrantz View Post
I feel like I'm the only person who liked the new Ewok dance party music from the Special Edition more than the original music.

I also liked the part in Revenge of the Sith where Palpatine implies that Darth Plagueis controlled midichlorians to create Anakin. I mean, I'd rather the whole "virgin birth" thing not be in the movies at all, but I thought it was better than just leaving it as The Force Did It.
What? No, the revamped music was a billion times better than YUB NUB. One of the few genuine improvements in the Special Editions. Who says otherwise, and why are they allowed to mingle within polite society?

I thought Sidious' entire backstory reveal was handled unusually well. It was a borderline plot dump, but it was presented as a thinly veiled fiction rather than the more typical WELP TIME FOR OL' OBI-GHOST TO SIT ON A STUMP AND BURP OUT SOME EXPOSITION that Lucas usually goes for. And it was thinly enough that even dumbass Anakin was clearly having some misgivings about the fact that his buddy was basically saying, "I am your evil Force step-brother, mwah hah hah!"
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  #54  
Old 12-30-2011, 10:13 AM
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What? No, the revamped music was a billion times better than YUB NUB. One of the few genuine improvements in the Special Editions. Who says otherwise, and why are they allowed to mingle within polite society?
Weird! I remember fanboys going crazy about the new music when it first came out. Maybe it was just a loud minority of crazy people.
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  #55  
Old 12-30-2011, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Sarcasmorator View Post
I guess I kind of assumed it was just his armor at that point? Like he disappeared like Obi-Wan and Yoda, only offscreen. Nothing to really back that up, though.
Does... does that mean that his ulcerous carcass disappeared, but not his cyborg components?
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  #56  
Old 12-30-2011, 11:12 AM
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Does... does that mean that his ulcerous carcass disappeared, but not his cyborg components?
Well, they were all integrated into the suit, and the suit's still there, so yeah? All those mechanical limbs and replacement organs rattling around on the shuttle trip down to Endor must have been distracting.

Actually, you know, I'm getting this from one of the books where Luke reminisces about setting the empty armor on fire, I think. Not sure which one. Maybe one of Zahn's initial trilogy? I figured it fit, because until the prequel trilogy EU stuff went into how you had to work really hard to prepare yourself for manifesting from beyond death, it simply seemed like light-side folks vanished to become one with the Force, and dark-side dudes like the Emperor blew up. And since Vader didn't blow up ...

Last edited by Sarcasmorator; 12-30-2011 at 11:55 AM.
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  #57  
Old 12-30-2011, 11:27 AM
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Re: Ewoks

I am ok with the Ewoks. (I'm more or less ok with the Gungans too for that matter.) I just lumped them in with Jar Jar because they're a good example that the craziness of the prequels was already there and festering back in the original trilogy. Also: Wicket is so broken and awesome in Super Return of the Jedi.

Return of the Jedi might be my favorite film. It definitely has the best space battle, one thing that the prequel trilogy did completely flub it on in all three flicks.*

Anyone else ever play Galactic Battlegrounds, that bizarre Star Wars rts with the Age of Empires 2 engine? I mean, the game itself was decent enough since the engine was solid, but talk about shoehorning it.

*No it's not podracing be quiet anakin.
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  #58  
Old 12-30-2011, 11:41 AM
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I've never hated the Ewoks, but my first experience with Star Wars was Ewoks: Battle for Endor starring the one and only Wilford Brimley.
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  #59  
Old 12-30-2011, 12:18 PM
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Are you sure about that? I mean, it had the same writer as Empire, and that would kinda seem to seriously contradict a lot of the foreshadowing from it.
Not certain, no. But the films did have different scriptwriters! Jedi was Lucas and Kasdan, with uncredited contributions from a dude named David Webb Peoples. Empire's original was done by Leigh Brackett, finished by Lucas and Kasdan after she died (Lucas didn't like her ending at all) and then edited by a couple other dudes. Lucas is also the only author mentioned for the script of Star Wars, though the final editing for that film was apparently done by others without his input, which is apparently the only thing that saved it from he unimaginative, by-the-book editing of the prequels.
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  #60  
Old 12-30-2011, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Sanagi View Post
The original trilogy was a true collaborative effort. Everyone from the actors to the costume designers to the sound effects artists infused Star Wars with their personalities. George Lucas had to incorporate all those distinct visions into Star Wars, and like a great rock band, that collaboration was where the magic happened.
Mark Hamill once told an anecdote about how he would suggest ways for Luke to act in certain scenes and Lucas would gainsay him, so Harrison Ford took Mark aside and advised him to just do the scene the way he wanted and if Lucas said anything, just play dumb.
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