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  #5821  
Old 03-20-2017, 01:50 PM
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I'm not saying that you can't find ways to make that sort of thing work. Like showing two angles of a fight could be cool. Showing two separate fights synching up could work as well. There are ways to do this!

But just suddenly cutting the screen in half for 2 seconds to show DOJO LADY and VISITOR GUY fighting 2 randos during a group rando fight is not it.
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  #5822  
Old 03-20-2017, 02:57 PM
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Iron Fist is some pretty dire viewing but as the wise screams of the Skeleman point out it has some nice things like Drunk Fu Manchester Man, And the Game of Death style Gauntlet of dudes. Basically "Lets crib directly from Kung Fu movies" is a winning strategy for winning. But they BLEW IT ALL UP and didnt have any Training Montages which is total garbage. Especially because Danny is an insufferably pushy and entitled self righteous billionaire in addition to being the magical chosen one of prophecy and destiny. A training montage would have been nice to give the impression that he had actually worked toward something. Maybe even a montage of learning how to be a business person or even just learning how to drive?

Everything else is up in the air though because the fevered effect of "is...is this better or just welcome relief from the nonstop torrent of stupid shut up shutupshutupshutyourmouth that is Danny Rand."

Stray thought: My initial read of Danny's eastern wisdom nonsense felt like Hansel from Zoolander? Then Bakuto shows up and Just goes full Zoolander voice? Its all very offputting because I guess its supposed to sound serious.

Its probably a bad sign if you can gauge likeability of characters based on how often they will tell Danny Rand, the protagonist how stupid he is being. But this metric lets us watch Ward, the horrible child who cheats at monopoly go on a magical character arc to being the most sympathetic character for some reason. That Reason is poor Ward is just endlessly beset by people rising from the dead to tell him what to do

Also Iron Fist stands unique among the marvel shows in that... its Back half is probably better than its first five episodes? At no point does it become good, but it finds Danny something to do besides going into womens houses and ignoring them when they ask him to leave.

This show is a headache because it has a lot of things wrong with it, and the initial casting complaint is kind of minor but also emblematic of how tone deaf the whole thing feels?
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  #5823  
Old 03-20-2017, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAT View Post
I'm not saying that you can't find ways to make that sort of thing work. Like showing two angles of a fight could be cool. Showing two separate fights synching up could work as well. There are ways to do this!

But just suddenly cutting the screen in half for 2 seconds to show DOJO LADY and VISITOR GUY fighting 2 randos during a group rando fight is not it.
Ang Lee's Hulk
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  #5824  
Old 03-20-2017, 05:02 PM
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I've been watching Star Trek Voyager on the Netflix and I'm at the end of Season 2 so after watching episodes like 'Threshold' and 'Tuvix' I thought "Y'know what? Everyone's ragging on Iron Fist so let's watch a different black sheep fourth entry!" So now I'm watching this against all advisement.

First episode in so far and while it's not offensive, it's pretty hilarious for the wrong reasons. After watching Danny try barging into his old stomping grounds and reconnecting with acquaintances and making new friends and being super trustring all I can think of is



Seriously, at the end of the first episode he gets into a predicament the likes of which his contemporaries might be able to put off until, like, episode 6 or 7.

Iron Fist! Hero! The Fourth Defender! Incapacitated in Episode 1!
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  #5825  
Old 03-20-2017, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunther, an Otter View Post
Its probably a bad sign if you can gauge likeability of characters based on how often they will tell Danny Rand, the protagonist how stupid he is being. But this metric lets us watch Ward, the horrible child who cheats at monopoly go on a magical character arc to being the most sympathetic character for some reason. That Reason is poor Ward is just endlessly beset by people rising from the dead to tell him what to do
I had a big huge thing almost completely written out and then Chrome ate it and I"m not gonna re-write it. Maybe tomorrow.

Essentially it was 1000 words to the effect of "It's fucking weird that STOCK CHARACTER 007: ASSHOLE YOUNG CEO ends up being the most interesting and sympathetic character".
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  #5826  
Old 03-20-2017, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAT View Post
"It's fucking weird that STOCK CHARACTER 007: ASSHOLE YOUNG CEO ends up being the most interesting and sympathetic character".
I agree entirely. Ward's character arc is really the only one I want to see more of at this point.

What did I think of the series overall? Well, it's a pointless slog at first, but like Gunther said, it actually picks up for the last five episodes. If they had started there, with Danny hunting The Hand with his girlfriend because they're infiltrating his company, it would have been a fun, action-packed miniseries.

It also would have improved the character of Danny Rand. The scriptwriters obviously thought that introducing him as a humble vagrant orphan would make him easier to like, but instead he only comes across as blunt and ignorant. But if you start watching at Episode 8, he feels more like a protagonist - he's got a goal and a plan, at least. (Even if it is a bad plan.)
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  #5827  
Old 03-20-2017, 07:22 PM
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Man, now I just had a thought for this show: what if they simply started from when they were all kids and made episode 1 that, ending with the plane crash and finally older Rand coming back to the company building? There's already a smattering of scenes from kid-Ward being terrible and stuff like that, so unless they stop doing having those scenes then I like my idea better as a starting point.
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  #5828  
Old 03-20-2017, 07:52 PM
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Should I skip to episode 8?
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  #5829  
Old 03-20-2017, 09:06 PM
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The show does get better as it goes along, as the inherent goofiness starts to sneak through the dour haze that the show wants to be. Episode 11 has Colleen and Danny standing on a rooftop spouting absurd dialogue at each other about how they their allegiances conflict. I think it is the only time the show has genuinely made me smile.

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Should I skip to episode 8?
Why would you skip it if you are watching the rest of the series? It has the best fight through the first 11 episodes.
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  #5830  
Old 03-21-2017, 12:12 AM
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Straight up fell asleep during episode 2 just to wake up to see Fisto punch hard for the first time. I guess I didn't miss much.
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  #5831  
Old 03-21-2017, 12:09 PM
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Fuck SPOILER POPS and SPOILER WARNINGS if you still want to watch this show for some unthinkable reason just... scroll quickly or something.

Okay so take 2.
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Originally Posted by Gunther, an Otter View Post
They BLEW IT ALL UP and didnt have any Training Montages which is total garbage. Especially because Danny is an insufferably pushy and entitled self righteous billionaire in addition to being the magical chosen one of prophecy and destiny. A training montage would have been nice to give the impression that he had actually worked toward something. Maybe even a montage of learning how to be a business person or even just learning how to drive?
If we had spent ANY TIME AT ALL in Danny Boi's magic monastary (in another dimension) well that would have been just great. Spoiler alert. It never fucking happens. At all. Oh sure he TALKS about how tough it was, how hard he fought to overcome his outsider status, we get occasional ancedotes of him goofing off with the other kids and getting into the KUNG FU versions of teenage shenanigans, all of which could have totally made for entertaining TV, but they never SHOW us any of it. I mean, yeah I know these things are made on a budget compared to stuff like Dr Strange or Civil war, But couldn't they have asked for even a LITTLE bit of that Disney Money?

Without this, we never get to see Danny Grow into this "Iron Fist" dude that everyone seems to think is so important. We just see Danny being Danny. And Danny is... well... bad.
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Originally Posted by Gunther, an Otter View Post
Everything else is up in the air though because the fevered effect of "is...is this better or just welcome relief from the nonstop torrent of stupid shut up shutupshutupshutyourmouth that is Danny Rand."
Did anyone know that one guy in college? You know the one. The guy who's parents had enough money to send him on that whole "semester traveling across Asia" thing, and he came back thinking he was a fucking guru, spouting half-remembered quotes from Confucius and trying to get laid by offering to "teach" girls "yoga". Start with that as your base. Add to that a tendency towards temper tantrums and whining when things don't go his way. Add to that a big old dose of plain old bad writing where the character jumps from serene to goofy to traumatized to pompus to stoic to whiny. Then add some MORE bad writing in the form of "maniac pixie dream whiteboy" variety where they're paradoxically so perfect and wonderful even as they're being just the worst.

That's Danny. The "hero" of the show.

I don't THINK they wanted us to hate Danny but it's kinda hard NOT to hate a guy who walks into someone else's Martial arts class, scream at the students for daring to have a good time and then kneecap one of em when they're rightfully like "wtf man". That's not "stern respect for the dojo" that's just being a fucking asshole. You could argue that he's somewhat less terrible by the end, but he never actually becomes likable or interesting. This is supposed to be a Kung Fu Adventure! So why is so much of it spent watching this twit who brags about how fucking enlightened he is debate fake contract law to become a billionaire again?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunther, an Otter View Post
Its probably a bad sign if you can gauge likeability of characters based on how often they will tell Danny Rand, the protagonist how stupid he is being. But this metric lets us watch Ward, the horrible child who cheats at monopoly go on a magical character arc to being the most sympathetic character for some reason. That Reason is poor Ward is just endlessly beset by people rising from the dead to tell him what to do
As Gunther said, it's ambiguous as to what parts of the show are actually good and which parts just seem good because of just how bad everything surrounds them is. But I think most people who tough it out through this garbage will zero in on two characters that sort of sucked less than everything else: Claire and Ward.

I assume anyone who watches this already knows Claire. She's the nurse lady who shows up in literally every other Marvel Netflix shows, sorta like what Agent Coulson did way back in the first days of this whole mess. She's a breath of fresh air in this one because she's the only one who's apparently aware of the fact that Danny is just terrible, and never misses an opportunity to tell him it. On one hand thank GOD someone is saying what the audience is thinking. On the other hand, how dire has shit gotten when the show's only way of building goodwill is to turn to the camera and say "HOW LAME AND DUMB AMD I RIGHT GUYS" before diving right back into the pit of lame dumbness. Claire is awesome, but she was already awesome, in FOUR other seasons of marvel Netflix shows. Her suddenly going from non-combatant voice of reason to bull-headed superheroes to ignored voice of reason getting swept up fighting ninjas feels almost like they shoehorned something that we all recognized as good, in order to salvage the trainwreck of literally everything else. I'm totally down with her finally getting into the thick of it, I just wish that her big moment to transition from medic to fighter wasn't this.

And then there's Ward, who we don't already know from 4 other far better seasons of TV. Ward hits literally every single check box for EVIL CORPORATE EXECUTIVE on the movie stock villain list. It's like he modeled his entire life off the business card scene in American Psycho. Fitted suits, slicked back hair, monologues about making money, bored monotone, prescription drugs, the works. And then we quickly flash back to teenage him cheating at monopoly and picking on kid 5 years younger than him just to seal the deal. We've seen Ward countless times in other shows and movies, we recognize him immediately, and we all just start waiting for the magical moment where the heroes will save the rec center and his Lamborghini gets T-boned by a manure truck.

And then he becomes the best part of the show, to the point where I'd call him the actual hero.

One thing that dawned on me while I was putting together a Storify of my awful unreadable tweetstorm was that both Ward and Danny sort of have to live double lives: the public one as part of GENERIC COMIC BOOK ULTRACORP, and the secret one where they gotta deal with BAD GUYS. But we never see Danny actually suffer under that supposed weight. He never really deals with any of his responsibilities as BILLIONAIRE SHAREHOLDER, and he has an easy answer to all NINJA BADGUY problems with punching. He wins most of his fights, and the one time he "loses" on a technicality, he literally throws a fucking temper tantrum about it while walking away.

Ward on the other hand, does nothing BUT suffer for his double life. He spends all his time GENERIC COMIC BOOK ULTRACORP scrambling to clean up Danny's messes, and in the private one filled with BAD GUYS, punching isn't an option, only compromising with the various badguys to try and keep the people he cares about alive. And it kicks the shit out of him.

Danny's front and Center 90% of the show, but we don't really ever get to see who he was, or watch him change or... anything really. He's just kind of this insufferable white savior dweeb from start to end. But with Ward we see who he is at the start, find out WHY he is that way, watch him struggle with his flaws, try to do the right thing in spite of himself, and eventually come out on the other end a changed man.

Is he enough to save the show? No. It still sucks. But he's definitely the only character I was actually invested in by the end. So props to ya Ward. Hopefully you can stick around and make Danny's Inevitable part in the Defenders a little less insufferable.



Aw, I love you too, buddy.

Last edited by BEAT; 03-29-2017 at 09:14 AM.
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  #5832  
Old 03-21-2017, 05:17 PM
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Wow, I think this is worse than anything the people behind the GitS movie have said in response to whitewashing:




How did we go from JJ to Luke Cage to this?

More here
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  #5833  
Old 03-21-2017, 05:26 PM
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Roy Thomas is a very old man. He also had nothing to do with the show.

He says he wasn't trying to make any kind of statement when he made Iron Fist a white guy; "He was just a man," he says. That's probably true. The piece he's missing is why it's bad that white men are the default form of protagonists.
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  #5834  
Old 03-22-2017, 08:57 AM
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Iron Fist was mediocre but it did get better as it went on.

Theory for Defenders: Sigourney Weaver is playing Danny Rand's mom.
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  #5835  
Old 03-22-2017, 09:35 AM
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I choose to believe his mom got abducted by Aliens, instead of blown away by crazy strong wind.

Yes.

This makes perfect sense to me.
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  #5836  
Old 03-22-2017, 11:53 AM
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For some fucking reason this show refuses to stop rattling around in my brain, so I'm going to write more about how all of the characters are kind of bad & don't work in a mad attempt to exorcise these demons. I'll start with GOOD GUYS GUYS WHO ARE NOT OBVIOUSLY ANTAGONISTS.

So at the start of the show, best character Ward is the OBVIOUSLY BAD HALF of a brother-sister duo. The OBVIOUSLY GOOD HALF is JOY, referred to in my tweetstorm as SISTER DOUCHEFACE to match BROTHER DOUCHEFACE (Ward) and FATHER DOUCHEFACE (uuuugggghhhhhhghghgh). You get the impression that she's supposed to be like the mirror version of Ward, going from good to bad as he goes from bad to good, but her characterization is such a fucking mess you'd never know it from just watching. She ping pongs between GOOD GUY ACTIONS and BAD GUY ACTIONS so constantly and so pointlessly that we never really get any idea of who the fuck she's supposed to be. She goes directly from crying tears of joy about how the crazy Krate hobo that's been bothering them really is Danny, to trying to force Danny to sign a contract claiming he's totally not Danny. One moment she's happily bribing business prospect with, I shit you not, a stolen human liver and the next she's feeling really bad about how the company she just literally harvested organs for has a factory that might be bad for people's health.

There's no gradual change of thought or fall into darkness or rationalization for her actions or anything. She just sorta does things. A long chain of actions all taken for no discernible reason until the show just ends.

And on top of that she's really fucking bad at figuring out that her obviously evil™ (undead) dad is, in fact, not good. I mean it was REALLY obvious from the moment they first met. And once that whole train has started-
FATHER DOUCHEFACE: U CAN TRUST ME.
DAUGHTER DOUCHEFACE: OK I TRUST U.
FATHER DOUCHEFACE: MUAHAHAHA ALL ACCORDING TO MY EVIL PLANS!
DAUGHTER DOUCHEFACE: WAT?
FATHER DOUCHEFACE: NUTHIN
DAUGHTER DOUCHEFACE: DAD, ARE YOU, UH, EVIL?
FATHER DOUCHEFACE: NO! I'M GOOD
DAUGHTER DOUCHEFACE: YOU SURE?
FATHER DOUCHEFACE: THAT WAS A GOOD GUY LAUGH.

It just keeps going
DAUGHTER DOUCHEFACE: HEY DAD YOU *SURE* YOU'RE NOT EVIL
FATHER DOUCHEFACE: YEAH I'M TOTALLY GOOD.
DAUGHTER DOUCHEFACE: OK.
FATHER DOUCHEFACE: *SETS BOX OF PUPPIES ON FIRE*

And going
SON DOUCHEFACE: SO SIS. HERE'S THE THING. DAD'S EVIL.
DAUGHTER DOUCHEFACE: NO HE'S GOOD.
FATHER DOUCHEFACE: YEAH I'M LIKE, SUPER GOOD.
SON DOUCHEFACE: ARE YOU KIDDING ME. HE'S SO OBVIOUSLY EVIL
FATHER DOUCHEFACE: *EATS AN ADORABLE KITTEN*
SON DOUCHEFACE: SEE?
DAUGHTER DOUCHEFACE: THAT KITTEN WAS PROBABLY BAD.
SON DOUCHEFACE: OH MY GOD.

And going
BAKUTO: HEY WHAT'S UP DOUCHEFACES!
SON DOUCHEFACE: OH GREAT.
BAKUTO: LET ME INTRODUCE MYSELF. I'M BAKUTO. I'M EVIL! MORE EVIL THAN YOUR EVIL DAD!
DAUGHTER DOUCHEFACE: THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE CUZ MY DAD'S GOOD.
FATHER DOUCHEFACE: *BLOWS UP AN ORPHANAGE*
DAUGHTER DOUCHEFACE: SO GOOD.
BAKUTO: WOW REALLY?
SON DOUCHEFACE: I KNOW RIGHT.

And going
SON DOUCHEFACE: SO YOU KNOW OUR DAD IS EVIL RIGHT?
DAUGHTER DOUCHEFACE: ACTUALLY UR EVIL!
SON DOUCHEFACE: ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
DAUGHTER DOUCHEFACE: SHUT UP, EVIL!
SON DOUCHEFACE: I LITERALLY WATCHED HIM MUTILATE 2 DEAD BODIES FOR HOURS.
DAUGHTER DOUCHEFACE: WHATEVER, EVIL.
SON DOUCHEFACE: HE MADE ME HIDE THE CORPSES.
DAUGHTER DOUCHEFACE: UR BEING VERY UNFAIR TO DAD

Until fucking finally the thing that makes it all end is this.
SON DOUCHEFACE: HE'S BEING MEAN TO KARATE HOBO
DAUGHTER DOUCHEFACE: OMG! HE REALLY IS EVIL!
SON DOUCHEFACE: WAIT THAT'S THE FACT THAT CONVINCED YOU?
DAUGHTER DOUCHEFACE: I'M SO MAD AT MY EVIL DAD!

That happens at about the halfway point of the last episode. And then 30 minutes later, RIGHT AFTER we saw her abandon evil dad because he was being mean to Danny she meets up with some guy I'll get to later to talk about how THEY GOTTA KILL DANNY SO HARD! Seriously! I couldn't make this shit up if I wanted to.

Let's see, who's next...

Last edited by BEAT; 03-23-2017 at 06:50 AM.
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  #5837  
Old 03-22-2017, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
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Why would you skip it if you are watching the rest of the series? It has the best fight through the first 11 episodes.
No, skip to it. Like, skip episodes 2-7.
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  #5838  
Old 03-22-2017, 01:43 PM
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Detour from Iron Fist talk: I finally watched Doctor Strange and enjoyed it as pure popcorn entertainment. It had barely anything to say about anything but goddamn was that team creative with its set pieces. Just, everything about every fight was great, and even the final boss brought a great twist on how Strange was gonna beat him. Magic is cool and fun.
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  #5839  
Old 03-23-2017, 09:04 AM
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Let's see, who's next...
You'd think it'd be out of my system by now, but nope! I suffered and that means you all have to suffer. Did I say have to? Sorry I meant get to. Reading my garbage is now classified as a privilege.

So I guess the next one I'm gonna tackle is Colleen Wing referred to as DOJO LADY in my nightmare thread. A lot of people seem to want to think of her as one of the "good" parts of the show because she's a badass martial arts instructor. They're wrong, but I understand where they're coming from. It's not bad to want to love a badass martial arts instructor. Hell, I was raised by a badass martial arts instructor!


I <3 U MOM

So it's just heartbreaking that Colleen is just as bad as everybody else not named Claire or Ward.

In the first couple of Episodes all of Colleen's screen time is spent between getting harassed by Danny & company, and being the least accurate depiction of a martial arts instructor I've ever fucking seen. Lack of accuracy isn't a BAD thing in a comic book show, but as many people have pointed out, Iorn fist takes itself WAY seriously. This makes it really hard to watch her "teaching" her students to mug her in the streets (with karate), or get into a massively extravagant underground illegal fights where she takes on 2 giant mma dudes (with karate). And while I know it's all a dumb TV show and I'm supposed to suspend disbelief, every time one of those segments happened all I could think about was the 2 decades I've spent actually teaching kids martial arts and what happened to poor poor Fred Ettish, so for the first third of the series she didn't really do anything for me.

Then Danny goes and asks her to help him do hero stuff, because a random karate teacher is the very best choice to take on a heavily armed mob operation and because she's literally the only other person he knows.

Then she and Danny have sex. This happens about an hour after Danny told her about his vow of chastity for no reason. And after that she's just "Danny's Girlfriend", existing only to try and convince us that Danny doesn't suck, because how could someone that sucks have a hot karate girlfriend?! Then some dumb shit happens and it's revealed that she's actually a part of THE HAND, which is you might remember as the worst part of both seasons of Daredevil. Then she quits because she LOVES Danny so much. Then she just tags along with Danny until the series ends. She gets 1 showcase fight in the second-to-last episode against the bad guy I mentioned in one of my spoiler-pops in the Joy post that in a better show would have had real impact, but in this show it just registers as "a thing that happened".

She spends the first half of the series as laughable filler and the second half as a shallow love interest. That is how Iron Fist a show about ASIAN MARTIAL ARTS used it's ONE (1) Asian main character.

Yeah.

EDIT: I didn't really get across just how dumb the reveal that Colleen was SECRET TEAM BAD was. But instead of trying to actually re-write or improve any the above terrible paragraphs I'm just gonna quote some of my tweets. Because ahahaha and fuckit.

THE REVEAL!
KARATE HOBO: MAGIC GRANDMA JUST TOLD ME THIS PLACE IS EVIL!
DOJO LADY: OH YEAH. OBVIOUSLY.
KARATE HOBO: HOOOOW?!?!
DOJO LADY: BAD IS GOOD ACTUALLY.
KARATE HOBO: NO! BAD IS BAD!
DOJO LADY: NO IT'S GOOD.
KARATE HOBO: BAD!
DOJO LADY: NO ITS GOOD.
KARATE HOBO: IT'S BAD!
DOJO LADY: ACTUALLY BAD IS REALLY GOOD.
KARATE HOBO: BAAAAAAAD!
DOJO LADY: IT'S GOOD.

THE SEEDS OF DOUBT!!
BAKUTO: HEY YOU KNOW BAD IS GOOD RITE?
DOJO LADY: I'M HAVING DOUBTS.
BAKUTO: BAD IS SO GOOD.
DOJO LADY: BUT
BAKUTO: BAD IS SO GOOD.
DOJO LADY: I GUESSSSSSS
BAKUTO: IT'S GOOD.

THE FACE TURN!!!
DOJO LADY: HEY SO, BAD IS GOOD, RIGHT?
BAKUTO: *STRAPS DOJO LADY TO CHAIR* RIGHT.
DOJO LADY: AND YOU'RE GOOD RIGHT?
BAKUTO: *REVS POWER TOOLS* RIGHT.
DOJO LADY: OK. SO WHAT IS THIS ROOM?
BAKUTO: OH THIS IS THE NINJA GOO ROOM.
DOJO LADY: WHAT'S NINJA GOO?
BAKUTO: WATCH DARE DEVIL SEASON 2 ON NETFLIX.
DOJO LADY: BAD... IS BAD! *ESCAPES BY DUCKING AND THEN ATTACKING ANOTHER HAND MEMBER WITH HER BUTT.*

Last edited by BEAT; 03-23-2017 at 10:30 AM.
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  #5840  
Old 03-23-2017, 09:35 AM
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I see your Fred Ettish reference and raise you a "I'd rather have watched a series focused on Jon Hess teaching SAFTA to a bunch of underprivileged youths before trying to gouge their eyes out."
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  #5841  
Old 03-23-2017, 09:51 AM
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Beat, I hope your mom has registered as a lethal weapon because that looks like she can shatter people's limbs with a single strike.
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  #5842  
Old 03-23-2017, 10:01 AM
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So the final guy on team GUYS WHO ARE NOT OBVIOUSLY ANTAGONISTS would have to be Davos. I almost feel like I shouldn't talk about Davos like he's a main character, because "main characters" typically don't just show up in the 10th episode of a 13 episode series, but here we are.

Before Davos just pops in with no explanation, Danny mentions him a few times in his stories about Kun Lun and yes I'm still mad that we never actually see any of them. Those few fleeting mentions imply they were total bros and got up to all kinds of magic monastery teenage shenanigans and aaah that would have been so cool to see the fuck wasn't half the show set there?! We are lead to believe that he'd be basically the character we all wanted Danny to be, you know, maybe like a chill dude who's fun to hang out with but also enlightened af and also good at punching.

And for a moment, it seems like maybe, just maybe that's who we got! Davos shows up, kicks the shit out of a bunch of dudes, calls Danny "The worst Iron Fist ever" and tells Danny off for abandoning all of his duties at magical interdimensional monastery to fuck around in NYC like some hipster douche. All good things! You're off to a pretty good, if very late start, Davos!

Then he just exposits about how Kul Lun has all this sickass stuff that we'll never get to see and throws a temper tantrum. Then he tags along with Danny for a little bit until he suddenly decides that he's jealous of Danny's ability to punch kinda hard once an episode, and peaces out. Then at the very end he meets with Joy where the two decide they are bad guys who have to kill Danny now because sure why the fuck not.

Well, at least he was cool in the flashbacks. Or would have been cool in them, if there were any. Which again, there were not.

Holy fuck this show.

EDIT:I checked a recap and was reminded that Davos ACTUALLY first shows up in episode 9! He breaks into some guys food truck, makes throwing stars out of aluminum foil and throws them around the dude's head to freak him out. He never speaks. Neither his needless torture of a guy who was just trying to sell hamburgers, or his ability to turn food wrappers into weapons that can pierce steel are ever brought up again.

Last edited by BEAT; 03-23-2017 at 10:33 AM.
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  #5843  
Old 03-23-2017, 12:52 PM
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Okay so that's the heroes "heroes". I guess up next is The Villains.

Pre-Iorn Fist, a fucking amazing villain in a Marvel Netflix show was something you could just take for granted. Daredevil's Kingpin was amazing as awkward and restrained yet somehow still terrifying and dangerous crime boss. Jessica Jone's Killgrave owned that whole "what if a 10 year old actually got everything he asked for" angle. And the exact moment Luke Cage started to suck was when it swapped out the compelling and interesting Cottomouth for some idiot that drove around in a humvee yelling quotes from the Warriors. So obviously Iron Fist was gonna have at least one great bad guy, right?

Ahahaha lol no.

So instead of having one main bad guy, Iron Fist splits it's time between three of em, because splitting it between two worked so fucking well in Luke Cage. The best of those 3 is also the one anyone watching will remember from Daredevil. I'm talking about the barely-mobile, four-foot-tall septuagenarian Madame Gao, or as I like to call her, MAGIC GRANDMA.

Honestly? Gao's pretty great! I love how she owns the whole "little old lady that everybody is terrified of" thing, slowly walking around with her little old lady cane flanked by a pair of enormous goons. I also love how she effortlessly dunks on on FISTO & FRIENDS every time they try to step to her with little old lady trollish delight. She's absolutely one of the high points of the series!

So how does the series use this obviously great character? Spoiler alert: it's fucking criminal.

The first few times Gao shows up she's just a voice and a shadowy silhouette, which makes no sense, because we all already know exactly who Gao is, so what the fuck is this "reveal" bullshit what the fuck are you doing Iron Fist? Then she invites Danny to this crazy Game of Death tournament to save some girl, then whips out a knife right before Danny's "Wins" and says "hey forfeit or I kill her". Danny shocked reaction to a bad guy not giving a shit about "honor", and the subsequent "it's not fair I should have won" temper tantrum he throws as he walks away are fucking priceless.

After that she does some BUSINESS STUFF in the company Danny started owning 2 days ago, and then fucks off to China. So Danny & friends go to China drag her back to the states and tie her to a chair.

And then she stays either tied to that chair or locked in a basement FOR THE ENTIRE REMAINDER OF THE SERIES.

I literally cannot imagine what the writers were thinking when they took one of the precious few good things this show had going for it, and just sort of set it off to the side to never be used! Was she just too good to be the main villain in this horrible series? Is this a situation where they couldn't possibly have her as the main villain because she owns Danny so effortlessly every time she sees him, which would cause us, the viewers to have trouble buying any ending where the good guys win, because come on, how's a lame-ass white savior dweeb gonna compete with someone as great as magic grandma?

I figure that has to be it. I mean even after they strap her to that chair they can't stop her from effortlessly fucking everybody up. Such as when Danny has to run an errand and leaves Claire and Colleen to watch her...
MAGIC GRANDMA: IMMA PLAY HANNIBAL LECTER MIND GAMES.
NURSE: STFU
MAGIC GRANDMA: IMMA DO IT.
NURSE: OMG STFU
MAGIC GRANDMA: HERE I GOOOOO
NURSE: AAAAAA FUK U FUK U.
DOJO LADY: UR NOT GONNA MIND GAMES ON ME!
MAGIC GRANDMA: OH YA?
DOJO LADY: YA!
MAGIC GRANDMA: IMMA DO IT NOW.
DOJO LADY: NOOO SHUT UP PLZ.
MAGIC GRANDMA: HAHA I'M HAVING FUN.

Or when Danny tries to make her talk with Sodium Pentothal...
MAGIC GRANDMA: WOW THESE DRUGS ARE GOOD AF.
KARATE HOBO: TELL THE TRUTH!
MAGIC GRANDMA: LOL NO.
KARATE HOBO: AAAAAAA I HATE YOU.
MAGIC GRANDMA: LMFAO.

Or when they visit her basement cell in the last episode to try and get her to tell them about an... uh... an Ipad. (No seriously. The final climax of the show revolves around Danny trying to get a free Ipad this fucking show I swear to gog.)
MAGIC GRANDMA: I KILLED YOUR PARENTS.
KARATE HOBO: YA
MAGIC GRANDMA: BET YOU FEEL GUILTY ABOUT IT.
KARATE HOBO: WHAT
MAGIC GRANDMA: SO GUILTY
KARATE HOBO: OH GOD I DO!
MAGIC GRANDMA: LOL
DOJO LADY: WAIT WHY SHOULD HE FEEL GUILTY ABOUT YOU KILLING HIS PARENTS?
MAGIC GRANDMA: SUPER GUILTY!!
KARATE HOBO: OH GOD THE GULT!
MAGIC GRANDMA: AHAHA THIS IS FUN. OH BTW I DIDN'T REALLY KILL YOUR PARENTS.
KARATE HOBO: THE GUILT EATS AT MY SOU- WHAT.
MAGIC GRANDMA: YA IT WAS FATHER DOUCHEFACE. I MEAN OBVIOUSLY.
KARATE HOBO: WHAT.
MAGIC GRANDMA: YEAH LOL. YOU SHOULD TOTALLY, LIKE, MURDER HIM. FOR LIKE, DESTINY OR SOMETHING.
KARATE HOBO: *RAGE HATE FREAKOUT*
DOJO LADY: OK LET'S GO
MAGIC GRANDMA: HAVE FUN LOSERS LMFAO

As great as those "I'm not trapped in here with you, you're trapped in here with me" moments are, the price paid to get them is way too fucking high. Another sacrifice to Iron Fist's grim idol to the god of wasted potential.

Last edited by BEAT; 03-23-2017 at 01:06 PM.
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  #5844  
Old 03-23-2017, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by BEAT View Post
So the final guy on team GUYS WHO ARE NOT OBVIOUSLY ANTAGONISTS would have to be Davos.
A perfect name for a good guy.
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  #5845  
Old 03-24-2017, 03:23 AM
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Shouldn't a character named Davos be neutral?
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  #5846  
Old 03-24-2017, 07:16 AM
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The Davos on Game of Thrones is like the only decent dude in the entire series.
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  #5847  
Old 03-24-2017, 07:59 AM
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I'm not sure If I'm gonna do another post yet because I'm not sure if I'm interested enough to remind myself what the fuck Bakuto's Deal was, and I'm not sure if I'm FUCKING INSANE enough to try and actually describe the maddening abyss that is Father Doucheface.
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Old 03-24-2017, 09:36 AM
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The only way out is through, BEAT.

I'm only up to episode 4 and while I've been trying to remain positive about the series as much as possible, Danny Rand really just sucks non-stop. Everything about him that was probably written to make him seem principled, disciplined, naive and charming just makes him come off like the most irritating self-obsessed asshole in the world. If I knew this guy in real life I wouldn't be able to get away from him fast enough. I can't tell yet how much of that is the writing and how much is Finn Jones' portrayal -- not that he's a bad actor, but maybe someone else could have been a better fit for the role.
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Old 03-24-2017, 11:46 AM
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Ah fuck it it's a slow day.

So the second-to-worst bad guy in this series is this dude named Bakuto, but my self-imposed twitter rules demand I call him SENSEI, because I don't want to run the risk of confusing him with KABUTO THE PYTHON who is a god. Oh also because he's DOJO LADY's Sensei. That too.

He shows up once in the hazy slog that is the first half of the show to drop by DOJO LADY's dojo and impart some generic fake karate wisdom. Then she shows up again during the "we tied magic grandma to a chair but her owns are just too sick" arc to reveal that he knows more about how to use the Iron Fist than the Iron Fist does, and "rescues" everybody from the little old lady they have tied to a chair. They all go and hang out on his massive private campus where everything is awesome and everybody just hangs out and does kung fu and yoga all day.

But then suddenly, PLOT TWIST! Bakuto is part of THE HAND! And so is Colleen because she's his student! I didn't see that coming!

No really, I seriously didn't! And that's because it MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE. Like, let's take a few steps back and examine what exactly all means.

So THE HAND is the thing Madame Gao runs. It's a massive conspiracy/ninja death cult that perfected the ancient art of stealth by wearing all-black onsies and getting around town with SUVs & motorcyles. Their favorite things in the world are digging big mysterious (magic?) holes, making ninja goo out of people, and selling heroin. They accomplish this by having their ninjas dress up as flight attendants. Also they're using Danny's new company for... stuff.

ANYWAYS apparently, shit uh, at least a decade ago, Bakuto, member of THE HAND decided that instead of hooking people on drugs, he was gonna get people OFF drugs! And teach yoga. And start a scholarship program for inner-city youth. And open up a real swank private-college looking place where everybody could chill out and read pretentious books while sitting in the shade of nice big trees. But they were still gonna be a death cult that made ninja goo out of people! And he didn't wanna have to get new business cards or "from the desk of" stationary, so he stayed a part of THE HAND, and spent all his time trying to fuck up Madame Gao's part of THE HAND and the two fractions (all of whom swear loyalty to THE HAND) spent the last decade just sort of fighting eachother on basically everything while still working together perfectly in all areas related to being an insane death cult that is just ALL ABOUT that ninja goo shit.

...Yeah.

As near as I can tell, the only reason ANY of that shit that totally changes everything about the setting is in place ONLY so Colleen can try and tell Danny "NO THE HAND IS ACTUALLY GOOD AF" so they can break up for 40 minutes. And then get back together once she's done discovering to her utter SHOCK that the "good" version of the hand (full of kids that she trained at her dojo that grew up to be doctors and lawyers and wtfever) are TOTALLY into ninja death culting and ninja gooing. and uuuuuuuhhhhggggggggggggggggggg.

Like I don't even need to point out the plot holes here, right? Why would this organization be going through this whole "we are fighting the hand but STILL SUPER LOYAL to the hand" thing when even the dumbest conspiracy theorists could tell you to just work both angles? You know, sell drugs AND do rehab centers for secret recruiting? Recruit kids AND dig bigass holes? Great fucking Job Iron Fist writers! You just shot the premises of your EVIL ORGANIZATION in the back of the head for a C-tier breakup & back together story!

Where was I? Oh right, Bakuto, yeah. He sort of becomes the face of all that stupidity and Danny finds out about it and runs over to crash at Claire's place. Bakuto tells Colleen to find him and report back, and when she doesn't do that, he decides to just turn her into ninja goo because you never know when you're gonna need more ninja goo. When that doesn't work out, he drops by the rehab center where Ward currently having an extremely bad day, and says "Hey I bet if I threaten your secret dad & sister, Danny & Co. will show up and try to stop me! So help me do that, or I'll kill your sister!" Somehow this stupidass plan works, everbody meets up FATHER DOUCHEFACE's secret apartment, then go outside so Colleen and Bakuto can kill eachother in the rain.

Spoiler alert: Colleen Wins.

All of that shit, and I do mean ALL of it takes place in the space of 3 episodes. Bakuto is formally introduced in episode 10 and dead (maybe) by the end of episode 12. The giant fucking mess of "I'M THE HAND BUT NOT THAT THE HAND I'M GOOD JK I'M BAD NINJA CUT CIVIL WAR GOO TIME I'LL KILL YOUR FAMILY OH NO I'M DEAD (OR AM I LOL) just sort of washes over you. I would say it's like it hopes that at no point do you ever have time to actually think about what's happening lest the whole thing fall apart, but I had PLENTY of time to think about what was happening because while all that's going on everything stops dead for what feels like a good 20 minutes so Davos can brag to Claire about how rad Kun Lun is (YEAH STILL MAD ABOUT NOT SEEING IT FUCKERS) and pretends to be too cool to enjoy eating pizza.

"Wait a second here BEAT," I can hear you say. "Wasn't this post supposed to be about Bakuto as a CHARACTER? All you've done is bitch about the plot! Well I'm not sure if I could claim Bakuto even has a character. He talks big about how his version of the hand will help the word and be cool & awesome, way better than magic Grandma's. And he *sorta* gets Davos to get mad at Danny with a dumb speech he gives right before he dies (OR DID HE LOL). But honestly, the guy's really just exists as an excuse to keep things moving and fill time between the show putting Madame Gao on the shelf and deciding it was time for THE ACTUAL MAIN VILLAIN to go HAHA ALL ACCORDING TO PLAAAAAANNNNNNN.

And that Actual Main Villian? Hoo boy. There is no way to prepare yourself to descend into that particular yawning chasm.

God have mercy on my soul.
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Old 03-24-2017, 11:59 AM
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The only way out is through, BEAT.
I could walk away right now and that wouldn't be a victory or a defeat. I would simply be free.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaeran View Post
I'm only up to episode 4 and while I've been trying to remain positive about the series as much as possible, Danny Rand really just sucks non-stop. Everything about him that was probably written to make him seem principled, disciplined, naive and charming just makes him come off like the most irritating self-obsessed asshole in the world. If I knew this guy in real life I wouldn't be able to get away from him fast enough.
1.) Vaeran, I do not wish to disparage you from enjoying this show. If you enjoy it, please continue to do so! And please do not allow my horrible megaposts where I spoil and trash everything to detract from that enjoyment!

2.) That said yes Danny is just the worst.

EDIT: HOLY SHIT I JUST WROTE HOW MUCH BAKUTO WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE EASY ONE MUTHER OF GOG.

Last edited by BEAT; 03-24-2017 at 12:09 PM.
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