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  #1381  
Old 03-13-2017, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul le Fou View Post
Blurrrrgh except that only triggers "once per turn when you hit with a weapon attack," so I can't get one on each attack. I guess that makes sense, kinda. But it's not like putting 8 levels into cleric (or 5 levels into a martial class) just to get 2 attacks with +1d8 each is really a game-breaking exploit, is it? :| Ohhh wellllll. I might still use it for the reach.
One of the things WotC has mostly managed to do right with 5e's design is make it very hard to multi-class dip across multiple classes to get repeatable resourceless per-attack bonuses. It's not a game-breaking exploit, no, but making it possible means the gulf between "I'm Barbarian 1-20" and "I'm Fighter 7, Cleric 3, Paladin 2.5, Rogue pi / 2" gets wider and wider.
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  #1382  
Old 03-13-2017, 01:38 PM
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Clerics are really powerful anyway. They're full casters, and they get good armor and weapons, they have decent hit die, and spiritual weapon is pretty much a second attack that you can move around on its own. Our War Cleric even gets smites.
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  #1383  
Old 03-13-2017, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Egarwaen View Post
One of the things WotC has mostly managed to do right with 5e's design is make it very hard to multi-class dip across multiple classes to get repeatable resourceless per-attack bonuses. It's not a game-breaking exploit, no, but making it possible means the gulf between "I'm Barbarian 1-20" and "I'm Fighter 7, Cleric 3, Paladin 2.5, Rogue pi / 2" gets wider and wider.
Yeah, they both just take Great Weapon Master like everyone else, given how poorly AC scales.
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  #1384  
Old 03-13-2017, 02:20 PM
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Yeah, they both just take Great Weapon Master like everyone else, given how poorly AC scales.
Well yes. The gulf between "I took my weapon feat" and "... Feats?" is enormous, and that's a problem. But it's still better than being able to splice together multiple attack and resource-free +damage/attack features through complex multi-classing to double or triple the performance of a pure class PC, especially since the multi-classed abomination still gets their weapon feat on top of that.
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  #1385  
Old 03-13-2017, 02:48 PM
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Okay, yeah, fair point. Still! I wanted my extra damage! D:
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  #1386  
Old 03-14-2017, 06:43 PM
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So, any thoughts on this?

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  #1387  
Old 03-14-2017, 08:40 PM
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Curse is the company(?) that owns the MTGSalvation forums, so there's that...
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  #1388  
Old 03-14-2017, 08:46 PM
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Curse is the company(?) that owns the MTGSalvation forums, so there's that...
Not knowing much about MtG and its community, is that a good or a bad thing?
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  #1389  
Old 03-15-2017, 12:06 AM
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If those digital tools would be like $50 and then you have it all, I'd buy them, but usually you have to either pay a monthly subscription or pay for each ruleset, campaign and other stuff extra. So to even just properly use them you usually would need like $200 already.
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  #1390  
Old 03-15-2017, 07:35 AM
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We played a bit last night, but we started late so it was a short session. The players met up w/ the dragon expert and grilled her on dragon stuff. They actually asked a lot of good questions and I gave them a ton of information. It was nice to be able to just answer questions in character and not have to worry about keeping anything secret. They found out that she has a folding boat and used it to sail back to shore. On the way the druid used skywrite to let the old man who had rowed them out know that he could head back. Her 10 word note: "old boat man go home we good ps derek rules." (Derek is her boyfriend who is currently in jail). She realized that Skywrite is a ritual and she can use it more or less whenever she wants to write stuff in the sky. They headed back to pick up the rest of their retinue on shore, and found three Manticores stalking around the old fisherman's cabin. The druid used daylight and entangle, and everyone else focused on one of them and took him down really quickly. The other two freed themselves and fled.
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  #1391  
Old 03-15-2017, 08:08 AM
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Entangle is such a rockin' spell.

In my first D&D campaign, the druid was constantly looking for an opportunity to use Call Lightning, which in 1st ed needs an existing storm to work, and causes enormous damage. I came up with a random weather table for my setting just for him. (He finally got to use it during the final battle of the campaign, very satisfying)
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  #1392  
Old 03-15-2017, 08:20 AM
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4E's digital toolset is a powerful case study in over-promising and under-delivering. Some of it wasn't Hasbro's fault (typically you don't plan for project leads doing murder/suicides) but the staggering majority was (Gleemax rebrand, cannibalizing paper sales with their rules compendium, online character gen that ignored most of the published rules, format changes almost weekly,) and their killer app digital tabletop remained vaporware for the life of the product.

If they learned their lessons, this should be a rousing success. Taking on an external partner shows they learned lesson one.
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  #1393  
Old 03-15-2017, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Büge View Post
Curse is the company(?) that owns the MTGSalvation forums, so there's that...
If it's Curse, Inc. they're an Amazon brand with a good history of making support applications for gaming. The original Curse turned wow modding from a waking nightmare into a one-click operation.

Those cats are for real.
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  #1394  
Old 03-15-2017, 08:34 AM
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Some of it wasn't Hasbro's fault (typically you don't plan for project leads doing murder/suicides)
Wait, what

Well, I'm off to google this...
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  #1395  
Old 03-15-2017, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Dracula View Post
Wait, what

Well, I'm off to google this...
The guy in charge of Hasbro's 4E digital venture kidnapped and murdered his wife, then killed himself. It's as horrible as it sounds, and the project went from troubled to disastrous in the aftermath.
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  #1396  
Old 03-15-2017, 09:05 AM
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Yeah, didn't take long to find the story. Awful. I didn't see anything about kidnapping, though.
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  #1397  
Old 03-15-2017, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ample Vigour View Post
4E's digital toolset is a powerful case study in over-promising and under-delivering. Some of it wasn't Hasbro's fault (typically you don't plan for project leads doing murder/suicides) but the staggering majority was (Gleemax rebrand, cannibalizing paper sales with their rules compendium, online character gen that ignored most of the published rules, format changes almost weekly,) and their killer app digital tabletop remained vaporware for the life of the product.

If they learned their lessons, this should be a rousing success. Taking on an external partner shows they learned lesson one.
The Wizards section of Designers & Dragons once again offers an illuminating look at why the 4e tooling was such a mess. It appears the entire thing was thrown together to try to push D&D into Hasbro's "major brands" category, but the actual D&D team had little control over the contents of the digital tools, and didn't get the revenue from them - it got applied to the brand, but vanished into the digital division instead of supporting the development of the game, which was entirely driven by print sales.

A fascinating exercise in corporate mismanagement; this brief summary does an extreme disservice to the scope of the mess.
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  #1398  
Old 03-15-2017, 09:07 AM
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The whole thing could have been prevented via Wizards being treated as a major brand on its own. I smell turf wars between Magic and the other properties, but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for someone to go on the record.
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  #1399  
Old 03-15-2017, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Ample Vigour View Post
The whole thing could have been prevented via Wizards being treated as a major brand on its own. I smell turf wars between Magic and the other properties, but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for someone to go on the record.
Designers and Dragons goes into some detail, surprisingly! There were certainly some turf wars within Wizards, but also between divisions of Hasbro. For example, D&D's computer game profits weren't allocated to D&D, they were allocated to a "licensing" business.
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  #1400  
Old 03-15-2017, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ample Vigour View Post
The guy in charge of Hasbro's 4E digital venture kidnapped and murdered his wife, then killed himself. It's as horrible as it sounds, and the project went from troubled to disastrous in the aftermath.
I'd wondered what had happened... Good lord.
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  #1401  
Old 03-15-2017, 04:12 PM
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So we came out of the cave to a rocky mountain path and a wyvern flying overhead. As we tried to cross the path, the wyvern attacked, so we hightailed it back to the cave mouth as it dived and fought it from within. We actually tore it up pretty well, but then it tried to fly away. The ranger wanting a trophy was the reason we fought it instead of trying to distract it or make a dash for the other side in the first place!

So I tied a rope to an arrow and the other end to a boulder, and we used a Fortuitous Circumstance card to make sure it all went off. The wyvern had 1 hp left after arrows hit it, but it leashed at the end of the rope and swung it hard enough into the cliff to kill it, then we hauled it up and, uh, harvested it. Rad.
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  #1402  
Old 03-16-2017, 01:07 AM
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that's at least a solid 8/10 on dragonkilling instincts, i approve
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  #1403  
Old 04-06-2017, 01:00 AM
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Hey, I have a question about bardic knowledge. Namely, is bardic knowledge a skill that is very broad in scope? Or is it very limited in application?

I've just started playing a 3.5 campaign and the players and DM are all completely new to tabletop RPGs. I'm the bard and I wanted to do a bardic knowledge check to see if I knew anything about the goblins infesting a dungeon and my DM said that the bardic knowledge skill flat out didn't apply in a situation like this. His point of view was that the text from the Player's Handbook constrained the areas that bardic knowledge applied to (PHB pg 28, literally only "notable people, legendary items, or noteworthy places").

Whereas I had the impression that the bardic knowledge skill was one that was broadly applicable. A bard hears stories and songs about all sorts of things, right? Maybe it would take a really high DC check for my bard to learn anything but it seems like I should at least have the option, right?

And in a broader sense I feel like as a player I should be encouraged to roll dice because that's my tool for engaging with the world. Let me roll. If I roll low the DM can just tell me that I don't learn anything. But if I get some crazy high roll we can make up some crazy nonsense on the spot and interacting with that seems like fun.

But I'm new to all this. Which is why I ask you guys: what do you think? How does bardic knowledge work and how should I, a new player, be using it?
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  #1404  
Old 04-06-2017, 01:11 AM
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You can always ask the DM if your character knows a thing. The usual response is for the DM to mentally decide what the DC for the roll is and have you roll against that number.

A good way to think about Bardic Knowledge is that it functions as any Knowledge skill you might need at any given time, but probably with higher DCs than if you actually had the Knowledge skill in question, to reflect the chancy nature of "you maybe heard a story about this once".

If the goblins in the dungeon are a menace to the local population, or have been there a long time, or are in any way notable to the sentient races who live in the area, that's covered by Knowledge: Local. And since it's covered by Knowledge: Local, your bard might have heard about them, even if the story is "yeah, they steal sheep out of the pastures sometimes".
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  #1405  
Old 04-06-2017, 10:23 PM
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Also, your DM sounds really rules lawyery. Instead of the type of DM that goes "oh thank fuck, a Bard. I can just TELL the party things."
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  #1406  
Old 04-07-2017, 01:57 AM
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For what it's worth my DM has told us that once he gets caught up with the game's paperwork he's going to start enforcing encumbrance rules. Which, I would tend to think, just bogs the game down in tedious bookkeeping.
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  #1407  
Old 04-07-2017, 02:15 AM
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I have never cared for encumbrance rules beyond "no, you cannot carry the entire castle", nor have I ever met a GM who did.

It's important to remember that the rules in the book are not absolute. Your group will inevitably find rules that you all absolutely despise because they add nothing, or because they're annoying, or whatever. It's absolutely okay to simply not use that rule, or even to add different rules.

Tabletop games are about having fun, and if a rule is stopping people from having fun, then it should go.
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  #1408  
Old 04-07-2017, 02:52 AM
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I also thought it was weird that my DM really wanted to go with 3.5 instead of 5th edition (all of us are having our first experience with D&D). Or perhaps there are version luddites who still prefer the old 3.5 over 4th edition or 5th edition?
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  #1409  
Old 04-07-2017, 03:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Meditative_Zebra View Post
I also thought it was weird that my DM really wanted to go with 3.5 instead of 5th edition (all of us are having our first experience with D&D).
Run, do not walk, away from this game.

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Or perhaps there are version luddites who still prefer the old 3.5 over 4th edition or 5th edition?
There are, but you said he was new to tabletop in general? 3.5 is not a good place to start, ever.
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  #1410  
Old 04-07-2017, 03:04 AM
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Well.

Can you explain this view a little bit? Why is it so problematic that a DM would want to use 3.5?
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