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  #1381  
Old 03-13-2017, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul le Fou View Post
Blurrrrgh except that only triggers "once per turn when you hit with a weapon attack," so I can't get one on each attack. I guess that makes sense, kinda. But it's not like putting 8 levels into cleric (or 5 levels into a martial class) just to get 2 attacks with +1d8 each is really a game-breaking exploit, is it? :| Ohhh wellllll. I might still use it for the reach.
One of the things WotC has mostly managed to do right with 5e's design is make it very hard to multi-class dip across multiple classes to get repeatable resourceless per-attack bonuses. It's not a game-breaking exploit, no, but making it possible means the gulf between "I'm Barbarian 1-20" and "I'm Fighter 7, Cleric 3, Paladin 2.5, Rogue pi / 2" gets wider and wider.
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  #1382  
Old 03-13-2017, 01:38 PM
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Clerics are really powerful anyway. They're full casters, and they get good armor and weapons, they have decent hit die, and spiritual weapon is pretty much a second attack that you can move around on its own. Our War Cleric even gets smites.
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  #1383  
Old 03-13-2017, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Egarwaen View Post
One of the things WotC has mostly managed to do right with 5e's design is make it very hard to multi-class dip across multiple classes to get repeatable resourceless per-attack bonuses. It's not a game-breaking exploit, no, but making it possible means the gulf between "I'm Barbarian 1-20" and "I'm Fighter 7, Cleric 3, Paladin 2.5, Rogue pi / 2" gets wider and wider.
Yeah, they both just take Great Weapon Master like everyone else, given how poorly AC scales.
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  #1384  
Old 03-13-2017, 02:20 PM
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Yeah, they both just take Great Weapon Master like everyone else, given how poorly AC scales.
Well yes. The gulf between "I took my weapon feat" and "... Feats?" is enormous, and that's a problem. But it's still better than being able to splice together multiple attack and resource-free +damage/attack features through complex multi-classing to double or triple the performance of a pure class PC, especially since the multi-classed abomination still gets their weapon feat on top of that.
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  #1385  
Old 03-13-2017, 02:48 PM
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Okay, yeah, fair point. Still! I wanted my extra damage! D:
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  #1386  
Old 03-14-2017, 06:43 PM
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So, any thoughts on this?

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  #1387  
Old 03-14-2017, 08:40 PM
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Curse is the company(?) that owns the MTGSalvation forums, so there's that...
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  #1388  
Old 03-14-2017, 08:46 PM
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Curse is the company(?) that owns the MTGSalvation forums, so there's that...
Not knowing much about MtG and its community, is that a good or a bad thing?
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  #1389  
Old 03-15-2017, 12:06 AM
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If those digital tools would be like $50 and then you have it all, I'd buy them, but usually you have to either pay a monthly subscription or pay for each ruleset, campaign and other stuff extra. So to even just properly use them you usually would need like $200 already.
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  #1390  
Old 03-15-2017, 07:35 AM
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We played a bit last night, but we started late so it was a short session. The players met up w/ the dragon expert and grilled her on dragon stuff. They actually asked a lot of good questions and I gave them a ton of information. It was nice to be able to just answer questions in character and not have to worry about keeping anything secret. They found out that she has a folding boat and used it to sail back to shore. On the way the druid used skywrite to let the old man who had rowed them out know that he could head back. Her 10 word note: "old boat man go home we good ps derek rules." (Derek is her boyfriend who is currently in jail). She realized that Skywrite is a ritual and she can use it more or less whenever she wants to write stuff in the sky. They headed back to pick up the rest of their retinue on shore, and found three Manticores stalking around the old fisherman's cabin. The druid used daylight and entangle, and everyone else focused on one of them and took him down really quickly. The other two freed themselves and fled.
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  #1391  
Old 03-15-2017, 08:08 AM
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Entangle is such a rockin' spell.

In my first D&D campaign, the druid was constantly looking for an opportunity to use Call Lightning, which in 1st ed needs an existing storm to work, and causes enormous damage. I came up with a random weather table for my setting just for him. (He finally got to use it during the final battle of the campaign, very satisfying)
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  #1392  
Old 03-15-2017, 08:20 AM
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4E's digital toolset is a powerful case study in over-promising and under-delivering. Some of it wasn't Hasbro's fault (typically you don't plan for project leads doing murder/suicides) but the staggering majority was (Gleemax rebrand, cannibalizing paper sales with their rules compendium, online character gen that ignored most of the published rules, format changes almost weekly,) and their killer app digital tabletop remained vaporware for the life of the product.

If they learned their lessons, this should be a rousing success. Taking on an external partner shows they learned lesson one.
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  #1393  
Old 03-15-2017, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Büge View Post
Curse is the company(?) that owns the MTGSalvation forums, so there's that...
If it's Curse, Inc. they're an Amazon brand with a good history of making support applications for gaming. The original Curse turned wow modding from a waking nightmare into a one-click operation.

Those cats are for real.
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  #1394  
Old 03-15-2017, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Ample Vigour View Post
Some of it wasn't Hasbro's fault (typically you don't plan for project leads doing murder/suicides)
Wait, what

Well, I'm off to google this...
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  #1395  
Old 03-15-2017, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Dracula View Post
Wait, what

Well, I'm off to google this...
The guy in charge of Hasbro's 4E digital venture kidnapped and murdered his wife, then killed himself. It's as horrible as it sounds, and the project went from troubled to disastrous in the aftermath.
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  #1396  
Old 03-15-2017, 09:05 AM
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Yeah, didn't take long to find the story. Awful. I didn't see anything about kidnapping, though.
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  #1397  
Old 03-15-2017, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ample Vigour View Post
4E's digital toolset is a powerful case study in over-promising and under-delivering. Some of it wasn't Hasbro's fault (typically you don't plan for project leads doing murder/suicides) but the staggering majority was (Gleemax rebrand, cannibalizing paper sales with their rules compendium, online character gen that ignored most of the published rules, format changes almost weekly,) and their killer app digital tabletop remained vaporware for the life of the product.

If they learned their lessons, this should be a rousing success. Taking on an external partner shows they learned lesson one.
The Wizards section of Designers & Dragons once again offers an illuminating look at why the 4e tooling was such a mess. It appears the entire thing was thrown together to try to push D&D into Hasbro's "major brands" category, but the actual D&D team had little control over the contents of the digital tools, and didn't get the revenue from them - it got applied to the brand, but vanished into the digital division instead of supporting the development of the game, which was entirely driven by print sales.

A fascinating exercise in corporate mismanagement; this brief summary does an extreme disservice to the scope of the mess.
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  #1398  
Old 03-15-2017, 09:07 AM
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The whole thing could have been prevented via Wizards being treated as a major brand on its own. I smell turf wars between Magic and the other properties, but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for someone to go on the record.
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  #1399  
Old 03-15-2017, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Ample Vigour View Post
The whole thing could have been prevented via Wizards being treated as a major brand on its own. I smell turf wars between Magic and the other properties, but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for someone to go on the record.
Designers and Dragons goes into some detail, surprisingly! There were certainly some turf wars within Wizards, but also between divisions of Hasbro. For example, D&D's computer game profits weren't allocated to D&D, they were allocated to a "licensing" business.
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  #1400  
Old 03-15-2017, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ample Vigour View Post
The guy in charge of Hasbro's 4E digital venture kidnapped and murdered his wife, then killed himself. It's as horrible as it sounds, and the project went from troubled to disastrous in the aftermath.
I'd wondered what had happened... Good lord.
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  #1401  
Old 03-15-2017, 04:12 PM
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So we came out of the cave to a rocky mountain path and a wyvern flying overhead. As we tried to cross the path, the wyvern attacked, so we hightailed it back to the cave mouth as it dived and fought it from within. We actually tore it up pretty well, but then it tried to fly away. The ranger wanting a trophy was the reason we fought it instead of trying to distract it or make a dash for the other side in the first place!

So I tied a rope to an arrow and the other end to a boulder, and we used a Fortuitous Circumstance card to make sure it all went off. The wyvern had 1 hp left after arrows hit it, but it leashed at the end of the rope and swung it hard enough into the cliff to kill it, then we hauled it up and, uh, harvested it. Rad.
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  #1402  
Old 03-16-2017, 01:07 AM
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that's at least a solid 8/10 on dragonkilling instincts, i approve
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