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  #241  
Old 10-08-2016, 08:23 AM
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Honestly I think I like this approach. The more Level 99 moves away from stretch goals the better, especially for something that the players almost universally want. (BATTLECON VISUAL NOVEL WHEN)
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  #242  
Old 10-08-2016, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Egarwaen View Post
And appear to be surprised that it's nearly universally a thing their players are salivating over?
They assumed anyone who cared had already homebrewed a solution?

ETA: To be clear, I haven't done so and I would love an affordable and professionally designed option myself. I have seen a lot of people talking about their various solutions on the internet, though.

Last edited by Lucas; 10-08-2016 at 09:14 AM.
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  #243  
Old 10-08-2016, 11:35 AM
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I'm still super Delicious of Nich's box.
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  #244  
Old 10-08-2016, 04:33 PM
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Nich's got a good box. I got the same thing except I didn't get the outer box, just the insert, and have it in my Devastation box. Thing is, it just barely fits all the characters War/Dev/Fate with bases, counters, and stands (and the lid is lopsided and raised with multiple boards/instruction books). No way I could squeeze ten more in there.

(...probably...)
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  #245  
Old 12-18-2016, 11:47 AM
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So last night I got punished for my hubris of counterpicking Jager with my fiance playing Lixis when I ate a cancel (locks in ante post reveal, so I was stuck with an exposed signature move) and a Pruning Lance the same beat, dropping four bases into Discard 1.
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  #246  
Old 01-04-2017, 10:56 AM
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Sasha and I have picked up playing through the characters in Devastation; we're now mostly done Tier 2.

Cesar VS Kajia - A surprisingly tough match; Cesar's got so many advance triggers that it's really tough to not wind up covered in bugs - and Sasha did a great job of punishing when I got swarmed too much. On the other hand he's a lot more fun than I thought he'd be; I was afraid he'd be kind of awkward, but he's really well set-up to cut loose and go to town.

Post-Dodge, Cesar's going to be really interesting, as it gives him a lot of ways to be super-squirrely on his Threat 4 beat. Fueled Dodge is going to rock, letting him probably avoid an attack and skip his Threat 0 beat.

Kajia VS Runika - Kajia's abysmal priority makes landing that first hit super-tough, while Runika has a hard time escaping once the punishment starts. I managed to pull out a win by swapping to Kajia's "Plan B" (plink from range) and catching Sasha's special action with my Cancel, proving once again the value of the old saying "Don't forget your Special Action".
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  #247  
Old 02-07-2017, 12:42 PM
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Hi. I'm bored.

I'm gonna do a write-up of the Dodge base.

Dodge is a replacement for the Dash base, which moves the After Activating effect to Start of Beat, but lowers the priority down to 3. This has a number of changes to the balance of different characters, but on the whole it functions about the same. Notably, speedsters who can actually reach 9 priority can't just stop opponents from ever dashing, Start of Beat effects that render you Active Player can't stop dashes, you can't stack Before/After Activating movement onto a Dodge (but can use those effects after an opponent moves if you lose priority) and clashes involving Dodge are easier than those involving Dash (because you don't need your Dodge on hand to clash their Dodge out).

Here's some lists.

WAR:
  • Hikaru and Demitras both are nerfed by this, Hikaru less so than Demitras. Yes, they can skyrocket their priority, but there's less reason to do so in a game with Dodge rather than Dash.
  • Luc is slightly nerfed, as his five token ante is harder to use when being Active Player doesn't stop Dodge.
  • Seth is slightly nerfed, as he can no longer negate a Dodge with Omen since Start of Beat is unaffected by stuns.
  • Cherri is overall buffed, I think. Losing Crimson Dash as a guaranteed clash kind of hurts, but being able to clash more often overall with Dodge's lower priority is super nice, and Crimson still works just fine with Grasp.


DEVASTATION:
  • Shekhtur is slightly nerfed for the same reason that Demitras is. Skyrocketing your priority becomes less important when Dodge happens at Start of Beat.
  • Marmelee is slightly nerfed for the same reason Luc is slightly nerfed, but it affects her less than Luc does because she can decide to spend on Petrifying after reveal.
  • Alexian gets a buff, as he no longer has to worry about his Dodge being negated by an opponent saving up Chivalry tokens.
  • Runika is nerfed, solely because Overcharged is no longer an answer to literally anything the opponent can do with Dodge active. With Dash, you could overcharge the Hover Boots and deny them the Dash, but against Dodge, you eat one of your artifacts forever.
  • Ottavia is nerfed, because while it is easier for her to acquire a Target Lock, it no longer hard counters Dodge the way it did Dash.
  • César gets a GIANT BUFF here. He can now Dodge on Threat Level 4, where ordinarily he was either going to Burst, Suppression, or waste one of his other cards that wasn't very useful in a matchup. You will have a very hard time making a case for César using Dodge anywhere outside of Threat Level 4 now.
  • Aria takes a slight nerf since her high priority isn't as valuable for stopping Dodge.
  • Lymn takes a fairly meaty nerf here, as Fathomless becomes even weaker than usual since it's impossible to get the priority wraparound effect to happen unless opponents are calling her bluff on Disparity (and can actually get their priority that high in the first place). And even if she did, becoming Active Player doesn't stop Dodge anyway.
  • Arec sort of takes a nerf? The fact that he now has to use Fear instead of Recklessness to block a Dodge means that he isn't saving Recklessness to counter almost any other movement effect, so he has to split up his tokens more against any given foe, but he can still block Dodge with an ante where almost anyone else can't, so he's still bullshit powerful.
  • Adjenna gets slightly nerfed. Moving the trigger to Start of Beat makes it harder for her to combo with other move effects, and gives opponents more chances to avoid it, especially with Burst.
  • Gaspar takes a slight nerf, as he can't combine Gordian with a Dodge as easily as he can combine it with Dash for a fast teleport.


FATES:
  • Thessala takes a slight nerf, since she has an Evolution board option for becoming active player and options for skyrocketing priority.
  • Baenvier gets a slight buff, as Curse Dodge isn't a guarantee that you will explode if you screw up in the same way Curse Dash is.
  • Jager gets a slight nerf, as becoming Active Player no longer guarantees a hit against Dodge, like all the others.
  • Larimore, like Marmelee, takes a slight nerf due to his Active Player thing, but as it's conditional on spending Firepower, it doesn't hurt him as much.


Overall, it hurts a lot of fighters who had methods of canceling Dash that no longer apply versus Dodge, and hurts some fighters who had ways to capitalize on Dash's high priority outside of its autododge effect. Near as I can tell, the only fighters who actually improve due to the change are César, Alexian, Cherri, and Baenvier (and that last one only in very specific circumstances).

Last edited by Kalir; 09-02-2017 at 12:51 PM.
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  #248  
Old 02-07-2017, 01:22 PM
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It's been a while since I played him but isn't César's priority spread on his styles pretty narrow? Seems like he'd be easy to clash out of a really obvious dodge, assuming you're running someone who has a slow style or two (though I guess he can switch? I haven't played with the force gauge yet).

Bit of a nerf to Adjena, too, because at least you can do something against a dodge (clash) as opposed to dash (fuck you).
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  #249  
Old 02-07-2017, 01:24 PM
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Most of his styles have -2 priority, with Fueled at -1 and Inevitable at 0. So yes, it's easy to predict him for a Clash if he tries a Dodge, but you still have to guess between 1, 2, and 3 if he has the relevant styles (and Fueled gets more valuable during Threat Level 4, so it's not as easy as just picking 1).
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  #250  
Old 02-07-2017, 02:11 PM
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Egar and I played Battlecon in person at talcon!

I wanted to do an EX Duel, because of course I did. I had the Light & Shadow stuff and I wanted to use them, so I did. Of course, I forgot the L&S rulebook which included the updated rules for EX duels because of course I did that too, so we just went with it. Alternate UAs, EX bases, 30 life.

The strangest thing about an EX duel is the lack of dash/dodge. Since it was balanced for a 2v1, they have Slide, which is a fast 3-space move but it's a weak attack with no avoidance ability on it. The rest are basically just pumped-up versions of the normal bases (soak 2 SG3 instead of SG5 on the strike attack, up to 3 advance on the rush attack, more power and priority, etc.)

I played Alumis (A-lumis. No light. UGH I just got that. This is after I explained Aphotic from her finisher to someone.) and he played Demitras.

Alumis's EX UA is the same but also 1 life loss and -1 power that beat when an opponent steps on the shadow, which changes things up a lot with constantly trying to bait him onto it/across it. Demitras was about the same but had a max of 7 tokens and they each gave 2 power for an ante instead of 1.

It was certainly interesting. It was a slugfest; I ended up winning by 1 health, and there was a lot of back-and-forth. I don't know if it was me, or the UA, or playing against Demitras or what, but Alumis didn't feel like her UA was a huge thing this game. I was always trying to get him onto it for less power and life, but the effects like "stop their movement if they get on it" etc. always seemed hard to pull off. Maybe because Demitras is always up in my face, right? I got use out of the style to soak if I'm on the thing, but similarly to the above the "move to unoccupied shadow" style didn't get a lot of play because, again, switching to the other side of Demitras didn't usually accomplish much. All of my hits ended up being pretty simple standard attacks where I managed to get him to whiff or, rarely, beat him to the punch; there weren't any crazy-cool shadow plays, and I don't think I used my unique base more than once and it whiffed, at that.

It may have been because of Demitras's positioning (read: your face, always), and it may have also been because of his +2 instead of +1 power on the tokens. Those meant that even with a scant few tokens he could bust through my tankiest possible options with ease (One time I had soak 4, on both style and base + 3 stun guard, and he still hit for 8 or 9 base. Or he would ignore soak.) Or come to think of it, maybe Egar's just better than the people I normally play with (which is also certainly true).

Anyway it was neat and I should play Battlecon more the end.
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  #251  
Old 02-07-2017, 02:36 PM
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Huh, that's super-interesting because my read on that match was totally different.

Alumis' Ex shadow token had a big impact for me, because the -1 Power on it would often be enough to reduce my attacks to 1 or 0 damage, since Demitras' styles tend to be -2 power. I wound up spending way more Crescendo tokens than I wanted to for extra power, so my stock was pretty low at the end. Paul also totally outplayed me in the last two beats; my plays didn't have nearly enough range/advance on them. I also probably should have gone for more of the 1 damage plays; one of the EX Base changes that I didn't absorb until after the game is that Bolt has move instead of Stun Guard on it.
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  #252  
Old 09-03-2017, 12:37 PM
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Got the new set, Trials of Indines, off of Kickstarter at last.

First off: the characters (including the promo characters I got, such as Merjoram "should've just been in the damn base game" Alexian) all look really neat and interesting and will probably be fun, and they won't break the game sideways just by existing. There are a ton of characters who I was looking forward to trying, like Uleyle, Wardlaw, Dareios, and Amon, and there's even characters like Hayden who seem really interesting even if I didn't expect them to be.

They also have changed the Dash base out for the Dodge base, which as mentioned above has weird ramifications on a bunch of matchups. On the whole, I consider it a good change, but it'll definitely make some characters (Lymn and Adjenna mainly) harder to play, while some characters (César and Alexian) become easier.

But... I'm probably not gonna pick up any more BattleCON stuff in the future, particularly not via Kickstarter. The base game is as good as it ever was, but it's becoming increasingly clear that the company's cutting corners to try to get their products done, and the designers can't stop trying to tweak the base game. The spinners for life etc. were always the hardest components for them to get through designing during the Kickstarter, so their idea here was to just eschew them entirely in favor of life counters. Which... I mean, it works? And it's better than, say, Star Realms, and you can still use your old spinners just fine.

This doesn't really excuse them screwing with the Force Gauge mechanic again. You now track the total beats of the match with the Force Token supply. Each player starts with 2 (as well as the 3 Overload Tokens you can use Force with, bringing back the old problem Vanaah had vs. Hepbizah but now for every character) and gains 1 at the end of each beat, 2 if they're at critical health, same as ever. However, the game ends when the supply of 45 tokens is completely exhausted. (Force Tokens that you spend go to the Token Discard, maybe, it's never made clear, so you don't just loop indefinitely). So it's not always the case that you'll have 15 beats, although it will largely be true anyway. It's still a horribly janky system: if you have spinners from War Remastered or Fate, just use those with the Force Gauge system and ignore the Soak and Pulse options (as Soak was removed for being OP and Pulse was removed because I don't know).

Also: now instead of those (admittedly pretty awkward) folders for everyone's cards that might not hold cards for characters like Gerard or Endrbyt, you now have full-sized card boxes for holding everything a character has, including tokens, markers, counters, and their standup. These boxes also come with a full set of bases each, which... eh, I guess that's nice? Never was a huge problem for me to just set the universal bases somewhere else in my Devastation box, though. These cardboxes for each character are nice enough, but they're also going to be far too big for any older storage solution you had, even if you made room for them.

Again, all the characters look like they'll be super fun (even if they're leaning way too hard on Trias' "trying too hard to be cool" personality) and I'm sure I'll enjoy the game. But I wouldn't really recommend getting this set unless you either have no other BattleCON things (and even then go with War Remastered) or you have a giant set you're okay with lugging around for a two-player game.
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  #253  
Old 09-03-2017, 02:06 PM
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I think it's really obvious that Brad just doesn't want to be working on BattleCon anymore, and I think Trials' relatively disappointing Kickstarter will justify that decision. Which as you say is fine - there's four extensive sets even before the additional permutations of Light & Shadow and the EEs. I still like his design work, so I'm excited to get more games that he wants to work on rather than BattleCon sets he's doing because they make money.

(Plus I think there's at least one other set - Wanderers? - that was in development alongside Trials)
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  #254  
Old 09-03-2017, 08:01 PM
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I'm in the same boat as Kalir, except that I don't even like BattleCon all that much. It's a fine game, but even when a chance come up for a fighting card game there are other games that I'm going to pick up first instead, and I'm spending way too much and taking up too much space on a game series I can't really imagine ever playing again.
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  #255  
Old 09-09-2017, 12:45 AM
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Having just unpacked Trials I actually like the force system now. The timeout is a little silly, but timeouts in a fighting game always were. I feel like I could actually play using this now (my wife and I just use the Devastation SA rules).

The life tokens are dumb, but no reason not to just use the old spinners. I don't necessarily think it's a sign that they're over Battlecon so much as they tried to fix something that actually broke their timelines every damn kickstarter. But I also think I have enough BattleCon already that I'm not in any serious hurry to add more.

Oh, who am I kidding, I'll likely get Wanderers as well.
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  #256  
Old 09-09-2017, 09:05 AM
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Played a match with Wardlaw vs. Amon yesterday. With the exception of removing the Soak ante, I used the dials from War Remastered and my beat counter from Devastation. I think I can live with this.

Prior to Trials, Cadenza was the obvious go-to heavy brawler, but while they had loads of defense, power, and mobility offset by low priority, they didn't really feel especially like a video game heavyweight. Wardlaw O'Brien absolutely does, despite not actually having that much power or defense at the best of times (and frequently being quite fast). Clothesline is a weird base that lets you wallcombo in completely non-intuitive ways (On Hit push from a style into the wall behind you, then On Damage pull by which I mean life loss THIS IS NOT HOW CLOTHESLINES WORK) and all of his moves really force you and your opponent to carefully consider positioning.

Amon appears to handle like a less card-counting version of Eligor. You still want to trade hits rather than just dodge attacks outright, as getting hit more will give you better shields and power, but you also want to give yourself a few beats to cool down, as getting hit too much gives the opponent +3 free power (and Amon has some Soak, but not enough to make a +3 power attack not hurt). He also has a lot of movement-control options, which I had to pay a lot of attention to as Wardlaw.

Looking forward to playing the rest of these guys, and I may have to do a big-ass master post writeup of every character sometime.
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  #257  
Old 09-09-2017, 09:12 AM
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We played Merojram (me) vs Jin (my wife) last night and it was pretty one sided in my favor. The extra boxes are already set up so she only saw those three, I of course voted for Merojram at #1 so I was happy to play her.

Merojram's pretty akaward (three styles that reward being hit/going second with +0/+1/+2 priority) but being able to take Soak 2 or Power +2 every beat (I think I missed that bonus two beats where our printed power tied) is absurd. She's got a bit of her dad's thing in that her best style gives the opponent Power+2, but throwing your dash away next beat or just going with a low power attack and picking soak makes it pretty easy for her to deal with.

We did not use roll or the force gauge, will likely start with Roll next game but force I think we'll likely avoid for a while.
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  #258  
Old 09-12-2017, 12:29 PM
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I played Hayden vs. Lucida last night. Hayden is super fun and powerful if a little predictable at times (rolling to spend your fury/control is really useful) and has a lot of range, though her defense is pretty limited. Lucida can get really nasty, even her 'worst' token is like a free hit since it's a three life point swing. I won mostly on predicting a few key beats and some risks I took paying off a lot, but it was failry close.

Lucida's overall lack of priority, range and stunguard really makes me think we're going to have to start using the force gauge, as being able to ante Stunguard 2 or Priority +1 would have helped her out a lot.
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  #259  
Old 09-21-2017, 04:06 PM
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We were discussing apparent plans for a Devastation Remastered in IRC today, and the question about upgrade kit tiers (like Argent 2) came up. Looks like the answer is yes:

Quote:
@Michael: We may be offering an upgrade pack with all this stuff with Devastation Remastered (still working on plans for that), so you may wish to wait a bit.
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  #260  
Old 10-10-2017, 12:10 PM
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In total defiance of present trends, it looks like the BattleGuides guy is pivoting to text. He's also posting Character of the Week write-ups with fiction and strategy.
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