The Return of Talking Time

Go Back   The Return of Talking Time > Talking about media > Talking about TV and film

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #181  
Old 07-22-2009, 06:08 PM
estragon's Avatar
estragon estragon is offline
この世の最も無智なる者
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 14,991
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by onimaruxlr View Post
"I feel sick" is pretty insulting/derogatory too, especially given the context, so thats what I prefer. Not that the one they used is bad or anything.
Really? That's the only one that I think doesn't make very much sense as a translation.

The difficulty here is that you don't have any subjects/objects, so translations like "I feel sick" or "You're disgusting" (both are perfectly acceptable) effectively narrow things down to one interpretation.

"How disgusting" keeps things more open. As soon as you bring an "I" or a "you" into it, it unnecessarily restricts the meaning of an ambiguous line.

Honestly, the way most English speakers are likely to express this feeling is to say somethign like, "Ewww," "Ick," or "Uhhhgh" (depending on the context). But that would be terible final line. "How disgusting" keeps the amgiguity while still working dramatically in English.

"I feel sick," on the other hand, really feels like an equivalent translation (in this context) to having a scene where somebody, say, gets punched in the face and says, "That caused me pain" instead of "Ow!"
Reply With Quote
  #182  
Old 07-22-2009, 06:34 PM
onimaruxlr's Avatar
onimaruxlr onimaruxlr is offline
I say thee neigh
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,163
Default

I guess I'm reading "You make me sick" into the context. Like if someone got smooched against their will and they didn't want it but didn't wanna come right out and call the offender an asshole (which doesn't really make sense, giving Asuka's characterization)

Basically what I'm trying to say is "How disgusting" isn't harsh enough. She should've called him a needle dicked shit for brains.
Reply With Quote
  #183  
Old 07-22-2009, 06:47 PM
estragon's Avatar
estragon estragon is offline
この世の最も無智なる者
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 14,991
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by onimaruxlr View Post
She should've called him a needle dicked shit for brains.
That's an interesting suggestion for what she should have said, or potentially an interesting interpretation of what she did say.

But in reality, though, she basically just said, "Ewww."

The only thing you know for sure from the actual text is that she thinks the situation is disgusting. Whether that means, "You're disgusting," "This is disgusting," "I feel disgusted," etc. is up for grabs.

(That being said, all translation involves interpreting the text and I think your suggested translation is valid. I just personally think that this line is better served by keeping the ambiguity instead of narrowing it down.)
Reply With Quote
  #184  
Old 07-22-2009, 07:30 PM
Tavir's Avatar
Tavir Tavir is offline
In the Hall of Judgment
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: St. Matthew
Posts: 1,914
Default

Hmmm. In light of all this, I feel like dropping the "how" and just saying "Disgusting" would have been a more appropriate translation now. Interesting.
Reply With Quote
  #185  
Old 07-22-2009, 07:57 PM
Tomm Guycot's Avatar
Tomm Guycot Tomm Guycot is online now
Bald Gendou
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: California
Posts: 11,960
Default

Yeah, had I known all this and miraculously been localizing the movie, I would have gone with "Disgusting."

Though that still doesn't make sense. He strangled her.
Reply With Quote
  #186  
Old 07-22-2009, 11:44 PM
Sanagi's Avatar
Sanagi Sanagi is offline
who's she
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: fairbanks, alaska
Posts: 10,678
Default

You make me sick
Way-oh, way-oh, way-oh
You make me sick
But I love you

(secret alternate Evangelion theme song by Billy and the Boingers)
Reply With Quote
  #187  
Old 07-23-2009, 12:00 AM
Pajaro Pete's Avatar
Pajaro Pete Pajaro Pete is offline
so exciting!
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 18,447
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomm Guycot View Post
Yeah, had I known all this and miraculously been localizing the movie, I would have gone with "Disgusting."

Though that still doesn't make sense. He strangled her.
Well he's mentally unstable after enduring Third Impact and then laying on a beach all alone for an undetermined period of time (long enough to make grave markers for everyone he knows!), he can't be expected to have proper manners, ok?
Reply With Quote
  #188  
Old 09-16-2009, 05:46 PM
Evil Dead Junkie's Avatar
Evil Dead Junkie Evil Dead Junkie is offline
Inscaper
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,039
Default

So if anyone is still interested (which I doubt) I'm determined to remove this albatross from my neck.
Reply With Quote
  #189  
Old 09-16-2009, 08:06 PM
Badinage's Avatar
Badinage Badinage is offline
ILU Tiger Millionaire
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 722
Default

Glad you're still doing this. I may not agree with some of what's said, but these really are good observations. Makes me even want to revisit the series at some point.
Reply With Quote
  #190  
Old 09-17-2009, 02:05 PM
Evil Dead Junkie's Avatar
Evil Dead Junkie Evil Dead Junkie is offline
Inscaper
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,039
Default

Soup's On
Reply With Quote
  #191  
Old 09-18-2009, 06:36 PM
Evil Dead Junkie's Avatar
Evil Dead Junkie Evil Dead Junkie is offline
Inscaper
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,039
Default

Now Things Start To Get Strange.
Reply With Quote
  #192  
Old 09-20-2009, 12:55 PM
Evil Dead Junkie's Avatar
Evil Dead Junkie Evil Dead Junkie is offline
Inscaper
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,039
Default

A Double Dose Of Pimping
Reply With Quote
  #193  
Old 09-24-2009, 11:58 AM
Evil Dead Junkie's Avatar
Evil Dead Junkie Evil Dead Junkie is offline
Inscaper
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,039
Default

This Again
Reply With Quote
  #194  
Old 09-24-2009, 12:20 PM
Tomm Guycot's Avatar
Tomm Guycot Tomm Guycot is online now
Bald Gendou
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: California
Posts: 11,960
Default

As the episodes get better, so do your writeups. Though, I would have preferred instead of claiming Misato is the one who kills Kaji, you talked about the ambiguity and what each possibility would mean for the series. In the manga, for example, it's very clearly Gendou who does it.
Reply With Quote
  #195  
Old 09-25-2009, 01:41 AM
Evil Dead Junkie's Avatar
Evil Dead Junkie Evil Dead Junkie is offline
Inscaper
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,039
Default

Thank you for the complement.

However, I have to respectfully disagree, I think in the anime at least, there's no other way it works. First we get a shot of Misato being let out of jail. Then Kaji waiting for his fate, then Misato returning home. It's just set up that way.

And really watching it again, there's no one at play aside from Misato and Kaji, Ritsuko is shown briefly, but she had no reason to do so. Gendo doesn't really show up at all, he's not even in play. Plus, if he did it it's just another cold act, no greater meaning, Misato committing the murder absolutely breaks her character.
Reply With Quote
  #196  
Old 09-25-2009, 04:22 AM
Grignr's Avatar
Grignr Grignr is offline
Unreliable Narrator
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,050
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Dead Junkie View Post
However, I have to respectfully disagree, I think in the anime at least, there's no other way it works.
Red Book or it didn't happen.

Your interpretation (while valid from the original TV cut) at this point seems to be caused by the clumsy editing of the director.
Reply With Quote
  #197  
Old 09-25-2009, 10:26 AM
Tomm Guycot's Avatar
Tomm Guycot Tomm Guycot is online now
Bald Gendou
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: California
Posts: 11,960
Default

In the anime it is debatable. In the manga it's cut and dry Gendou.
Reply With Quote
  #198  
Old 09-25-2009, 10:31 AM
Evil Dead Junkie's Avatar
Evil Dead Junkie Evil Dead Junkie is offline
Inscaper
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,039
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grignr View Post
Your interpretation (while valid from the original TV cut) at this point seems to be caused by the clumsy editing of the director.
It's not clumsy just basic film grammar.

And Tomm I don't doubt it, but doesn't the Manga diverge quite a bit from the anime? I thought whoever wrote it was given pretty free reign? I've only read a couple of volumes that I picked up at a swap meet so I'm curious.

Did they ever finish the damn thing or is it still the All Star Batman And Robin of Manga?
Reply With Quote
  #199  
Old 09-25-2009, 11:17 AM
Zef's Avatar
Zef Zef is online now
Find Your Reason
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The Vortex World
Posts: 27,832
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Dead Junkie View Post
Did they ever finish the damn thing or is it still the All Star Batman And Robin of Manga?
Last volume that I've seen released here was up to the first 15, 20 minutes of the movie (the new footage in "Death" and "Rebirth," not the "Death" clip-show.) Supposedly, Sadamoto works at his own glacial pace, but I dunno if there's been any more of it released in Japan.

At this point, I'm pretty sure it'll finish only when Anno is satisfied with the remastered, Blu-Ray Ultra-Special Limited Collector's Perfect Ultimate Red Book Box Set Premium Collection release, containing the whole series, the original movies, the new versions of the new movies, the soundtrack, and the life-sized Reiquarium

That said, the fandom pretty much soured me on NGE, but as the manga picked up steam (and as I quit reading anime forums) I've gotten back into it. Mostly because of the manga, which adds lots and lots of characterization and backstory --Kaji's past is explored in depth, which was a great surprise. Some other aspects also diverge slightly, such as Shinji's newfound backbone, and a major change in character for someone you haven't seen yet. In general, I prefer it to the anime, but it IS a derivative work that has the advantage of hindsight and retroactive continuity.

Last edited by Zef; 09-25-2009 at 11:28 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #200  
Old 09-26-2009, 03:08 PM
Evil Dead Junkie's Avatar
Evil Dead Junkie Evil Dead Junkie is offline
Inscaper
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,039
Default

Penultimate!
Reply With Quote
  #201  
Old 09-26-2009, 05:50 PM
Zef's Avatar
Zef Zef is online now
Find Your Reason
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The Vortex World
Posts: 27,832
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Dead Junkie View Post
Quote:
it’s tough to tell how it could have gotten off to a much worse start. Then it does. Cutting to a comatose naked Askua in a wrecked apartment sitting in a tub of filthy water.
Been a long time since I watched the original DVDs, but the remastered versions make it quite clear: the water is red. With all that it implies.
Reply With Quote
  #202  
Old 09-26-2009, 05:55 PM
Evil Dead Junkie's Avatar
Evil Dead Junkie Evil Dead Junkie is offline
Inscaper
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,039
Default

Yeah Anno sure does love to torture the ever living fuck out of his characters.
Reply With Quote
  #203  
Old 09-26-2009, 06:03 PM
Kishi's Avatar
Kishi Kishi is offline
Little Waves
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 26,258
Default

When Arael invades Asuka's mind, one of the words that gets flashed on the screen is MENSTRUATION. So, makes sense.
Reply With Quote
  #204  
Old 09-26-2009, 06:10 PM
Zef's Avatar
Zef Zef is online now
Find Your Reason
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The Vortex World
Posts: 27,832
Default

I guess it does --after her earlier tirade, it wouldn't surprise me if she went off to the wrecked city to hide [what she believes to be] her shame.

OTOH, the search team, the derelict building, the neatly folded clothes on the chair, and her sunken face pretty much scream "attempted suicide" at me. Lemme reread the manga to see how it goes there.
Reply With Quote
  #205  
Old 09-26-2009, 06:14 PM
Pajaro Pete's Avatar
Pajaro Pete Pajaro Pete is offline
so exciting!
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 18,447
Default

It doesn't. After her mind rape, she's retrieved from her Eva in a comatose state.
Reply With Quote
  #206  
Old 09-27-2009, 04:43 PM
Evil Dead Junkie's Avatar
Evil Dead Junkie Evil Dead Junkie is offline
Inscaper
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,039
Default

Congratulations
Reply With Quote
  #207  
Old 09-28-2009, 02:27 PM
Evil Dead Junkie's Avatar
Evil Dead Junkie Evil Dead Junkie is offline
Inscaper
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,039
Default

END

Thanks to everyone who read.
Reply With Quote
  #208  
Old 09-28-2009, 03:04 PM
Sanagi's Avatar
Sanagi Sanagi is offline
who's she
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: fairbanks, alaska
Posts: 10,678
Default

EDJ, that's a great summary of how Eva is so affecting in spite of its prominent flaws, and why it's still more important than any of the watered down imitations that followed in its wake. Eva reminds me of Syd Barrett's music in a funny way - gripping, fascinating and unique material that's more often than not let down by clumsy performance.
Reply With Quote
  #209  
Old 09-28-2009, 03:41 PM
gamin's Avatar
gamin gamin is offline
Faceshove champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,495
Default

Great articles. It's good to know that not everyone hates the television ending. So maybe it has all the execution of a clumsy experimental college student film. It nonetheless feels completely genuine and honest, as if it came straight from Anno's head and onto the screen.

An interesting thing about the final two episodes: I was watching them years back when I lived with my mother, and despite her general indifference for the series, when she noticed the stream of consciousness storytelling in the final episodes, she was interested and watched them. Depression is something she's all too familiar with, so I think she found Anno's take on it fascinating.
Reply With Quote
  #210  
Old 09-28-2009, 03:45 PM
Mightyblue's Avatar
Mightyblue Mightyblue is offline
Are You Sure About That?
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Somewhere cold. And frosty.
Posts: 20,773
Default

You know EDJ, if you're interested in another "mecha" series that's more about the people piloting the mechs, their relationships, and how all that plays into being "human", you might want to check out a show called Zegapain. It's not psychotically depressive like Eva is, but it deals with a lot of the same issues if in a vastly different manner, and it's probably the best thing Sunrise has done in years and one of the more perennially underrated anime out there.

Last edited by Mightyblue; 09-28-2009 at 04:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
evangelion , folding chairs , gainax , get in the fucking robot , hedgehog's dilemma , mind-raping , mindblowing , q horse , where are the blu-rays?

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Your posts ©you, 2007