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  #9031  
Old 05-18-2017, 02:29 PM
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To people poopooing the DIS trailer, just a friendly reminder for the sake of reference, this is how DS9 and Voyager was sold back in the day:





Also info lost in the shuffle, apparently DIS is going to now be 15 episodes instead of the original planned 13, so that's good news!
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  #9032  
Old 05-18-2017, 03:13 PM
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I've seen comments that point out the Netflix trailer (which is where Discovery will be appearing everywhere outside the US) doesn't have Abrams-style lens flares. They were apparently edited in for the US version.

I've also seen it speculated that Discovery will live or die based on how it performs in the US because something something Only America Matters™, and that's a problem because it's being restricted here to CBS's proprietary subscription service that nobody wants.
Now I know how Canada feels about large chunks of Netflix.
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  #9033  
Old 05-18-2017, 03:56 PM
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I honestly don't know why they insisted on making this another show pre-Original Series.

Enterprise strained belief enough with how much more advanced everything looked for something that took place so long before Kirk sat in the chair as it was. Now we have a ship that looks like it came from the Abrams-verse, but we're still supposed to believe it pre-dates the original series?

Like, they could have just set it 100 years after the TNG/DS9/VOY era. It would have been enough time that they would still have had plenty of creative freedom to do their mutant Klingons or whatever, and the super sleek ship would make sense. 100 years would be enough time so that they wouldn't be bound by the events of the TNG/DS9/VOY era, but they could still revisit them if they wished.

I know griping about how the ship looks is such a nerd thing to do, when of course the design of a show in 2017 would be drastically different than something from the 60s and we need to suspend some disbelief.

I just.... I want some official continuation of the Trek I grew up with. The original series nostalgia is great and all but TNG and DS9 are what hooked me on the franchise, and I want a TV series to continue that story, bring that timeline forward. That universe's story basically ended with freaking Nemesis and that's just sad.

And yes I know Star Trek Online exists but... ehhhhhhgh...
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  #9034  
Old 05-18-2017, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by SpoonyBardOL View Post
I honestly don't know why they insisted on making this another show pre-Original Series.
IMO, it's a matter of maintaining the whole notion that Star Trek is about exploration first and foremost. If you want to maintain that idea, as well as the setting and most of the canon, placing a new show post-Nemesis presents you with a lot of problems. Namely, that the setting of Star Trek - our Milky Way Galaxy - is now mostly an explored and known quantity. Post-Nemesis, the Federation's exploration and reach extends through all four quadrants, and any major adversaries are all accounted for and quelled post-VOY, DS9, and Nemesis. Also, the tech that's accessible to the Federation at that point also makes exploration a trivial matter. It just creates a lot of problems for writers when you're supposed to be following a ship exploring something out by itself, when at any moment a transwarp conduit can and should dump a bunch of reinforcements at your request. Going back to a point in Star Trek continuity where the Galaxy is still mostly unexplored frees the writers in a lot of ways, and increases the chances that we keep that spirit of exploration intact.

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Originally Posted by SpoonyBardOL View Post
I just.... I want some official continuation of the Trek I grew up with.
It's strangely heartwarming to see that "Not MY Star Trek!" is a sentiment that's still alive and well after 50 years.

If it's any consolation SpoonyBardOL, consider this fact: Literally every Star Trek ever made post TOS was met with the exact same "Not MY Star Trek!" gut reaction from fans, and in retrospect they almost all turned out pretty good. Especially the one you're specifically nostalgic for.

I'm guilty of that reaction to. It's how I greeted DS9, VOY, and ENT when they first aired, and I deeply regret it in hindsight. At the very least, two of those three shows turned into very good Star Trek in their own right. I'm making it a conscious point to learn from history and my own mistakes and to give this show a fair shot and not not evaluate it harshly/prematurely on unfair standards.

Edit: Not to sound like I'm grilling or dumping on you, I totally get and empathize with how you feel and am not trying to invalidate it. I'm just trying to be positive and keep and open mind here, because I'd rather not repeat mistakes I've made in the past, and would encourage others to do the same.
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  #9035  
Old 05-18-2017, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
It's strangely heartwarming to see that "Not MY Star Trek!" is a sentiment that's still alive and well after 50 years.
Honestly re-reading that part of my post sounds more petulant than I intended.

I certainly don't begrudge the series from trying new things, and maybe DIS will be great and I hope it is, but this constant moving backwards (ENT, Abrams-verse, DIS) bothers me when the Trek that I remember (yes yes) had an ongoing continuity between three series, to some extent or another, and I miss that. I'd just like a show to pick up where that left off, rather than another story set in the past with somehow more advanced-looking technology.

I guess I'm just more hung up on the continuity thing (nerrrrrrrrrd) than I should be.
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  #9036  
Old 05-18-2017, 05:33 PM
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Like I said, I totally empathize with you, so I didn't read it as petulant, but I did want to poke fun a little and give perspective. Honestly, I too am a huge continuity nerd, and it delights me to no end to explore the in-between time periods and explore more lore and backstory to the Federation we already know of. Because TBH, we honestly don't know much about the Federation at all. What we see of it is through such a small lens/narrow perspective, so getting more angles to see the same stuff gives texture and depth to this thing I already love. It's like opening a new history book that fills in a part of history you were unaware of before.

Sometimes when they fill things in, it isn't the greatest, but I really enjoyed most of what ENT did. For example, what it did to flesh out and add depth to classic species like the Vulcans, Andorians, and even the Klingons was amazing, as well as showing us the trials and tribulations that led to the formation of the UFP and the ironing out of the principles of the Prime Directive. There's a lot of stuff that could be explored that could give existing Star Trek continuity and canon even more depth. It's just a matter of being open minded to it, IMO.
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  #9037  
Old 05-18-2017, 05:35 PM
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I think a compromise could be in order. They should have set it post-Undiscovered Country. The Klingons are rebuilding, a tenuous peace emerges, and the galaxy is still open for discovery. And there's always the possibility of guest stars like Sulu or Uhura. Plus you get the coolest uniforms.
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  #9038  
Old 05-18-2017, 06:04 PM
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Prequels are bad ideas no matter what you're writing, they cause more problems than they solve. You can't set up anything with real stakes because you already know how the universe is going to turn out. It's why Abrams bent over backwards to say "alternate universe". You can't do shit like blow up Vulcan and pretend to have continuity with all the stuff where Vulcan pointedly still exists.

Doing a prequel because "unexplored space!!" is a lazy excuse as well. A true sequel a generation or two into the future not only gives you access to the aging TNG/DS9/Voyager actors for cameos (hell, Bashir's dad is in MacFarlane's show), but you could give all sorts of reasons why the galaxy needs more exploring. "Oops, something crazy happened like a weird galaxy-wide space storm or Q clicked the "randomize" button or our warp drives caused space-climate-change and ruined space travel and communication as we know it, maybe there was even a war or maybe the Federation collapsed, so our records are useless now and our contacts were lost, time to put a new band together and see what all our old neighbors are up to and if any of them are still there!"
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  #9039  
Old 05-18-2017, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dart Zaidyer View Post
Prequels are bad ideas... You can't set up anything with real stakes because you already know how the universe is going to turn out..
This line of thought is highly illogical.
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  #9040  
Old 05-18-2017, 07:15 PM
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The Federation is really big, and space is really big. Events of consequence surely happened to more than one crew in the galaxy at any given time. Use your imagination.
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  #9041  
Old 05-18-2017, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
To people poopooing the DIS trailer, just a friendly reminder for the sake of reference, this is how DS9 and Voyager was sold back in the day:
Hmm, I don't know. The DS9 trailer isn't bad. The Voyager trailer was a bit odd, though, and a little too eager to brush DS9 under the rug.
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  #9042  
Old 05-18-2017, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dart Zaidyer View Post
Prequels are bad ideas no matter what you're writing, they cause more problems than they solve. You can't set up anything with real stakes because you already know how the universe is going to turn out. It's why Abrams bent over backwards to say "alternate universe". You can't do shit like blow up Vulcan and pretend to have continuity with all the stuff where Vulcan pointedly still exists.

Doing a prequel because "unexplored space!!" is a lazy excuse as well. A true sequel a generation or two into the future not only gives you access to the aging TNG/DS9/Voyager actors for cameos (hell, Bashir's dad is in MacFarlane's show), but you could give all sorts of reasons why the galaxy needs more exploring. "Oops, something crazy happened like a weird galaxy-wide space storm or Q clicked the "randomize" button or our warp drives caused space-climate-change and ruined space travel and communication as we know it, maybe there was even a war or maybe the Federation collapsed, so our records are useless now and our contacts were lost, time to put a new band together and see what all our old neighbors are up to and if any of them are still there!"
Also Kasidy Yates in Orville!
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  #9043  
Old 05-19-2017, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
IMO, it's a matter of maintaining the whole notion that Star Trek is about exploration first and foremost. If you want to maintain that idea, as well as the setting and most of the canon, placing a new show post-Nemesis presents you with a lot of problems. Namely, that the setting of Star Trek - our Milky Way Galaxy - is now mostly an explored and known quantity. Post-Nemesis, the Federation's exploration and reach extends through all four quadrants, and any major adversaries are all accounted for and quelled post-VOY, DS9, and Nemesis. Also, the tech that's accessible to the Federation at that point also makes exploration a trivial matter.
Didn't Janeway out of bounds her way through 90% of the Delta Quadrent and destroy the transwarp network in the process in the last episode of Voyager?
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  #9044  
Old 05-19-2017, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Destil View Post
Didn't Janeway out of bounds her way through 90% of the Delta Quadrent and destroy the transwarp network in the process in the last episode of Voyager?
Janeway also came back with updated star charts of the Delta Quadrant and future-tech from future-Janeway, where in her time traveling across the entire Galaxy in no time flat was child's play.
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  #9045  
Old 05-19-2017, 03:17 PM
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Welp, guess it's time for Star Trek: Andromeda, where Milky Way future super-tech doesn't work right because reasons.
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  #9046  
Old 05-19-2017, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Kirin View Post
Welp, guess it's time for Star Trek: Andromeda, where Milky Way future super-tech doesn't work right because reasons.
As terrible as that sounds, it's actually a scenario I would love to see. Because remember the TOS episode By Any Other Name where Kirk meets colonists from the Andromeda Galaxy? I think you could tell a fascinating modern Trek story about the issues surrounding immigration where suddenly massive armadas from Andromeda show up in the Milky Way seeking new homes. That's probably a top 3 dream scenario for me, combined with exploring anything post-Khitomer, and more Enterprise.
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