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Old 05-29-2015, 01:23 PM
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Default Heroes of the Storm

Alpha ended forever ago and beta is about to end; the game enters official release on Tuesday, June 2nd. Time for a new thread!

I'm just glad I got to 15,000 gold before Tuesday so I can get Johanna when she comes out. The promise of new heroes is one of the main things keeping my interest at this point.
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Old 05-29-2015, 02:28 PM
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I'm debating with myself whether to just buy the Johanna bundle with real cash, and spending my 18,000 gold on Kael and a 7000 hero, or using it to buy Johanna. Either way I'll be playing as her on release.
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Old 05-30-2015, 04:29 PM
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So it's about 2 weeks that a hero costs 15,000, then drops to 10. That's short enough that it's tempting to wait, but long enough that I won't. Ingenious bastards.

It also sucks that like every hero will be 10,000 from here on out? Or $10 each? That seems really high to me. Then again, almost all of the cash stuff seems priced just above the point where I'd find it worth it. I'd rather they made the skins cheap enough (a few bucks each) that I'd actually think it worth picking up a few, but $10 is a bit much for a single character's cosmetic skin. If I actually bought skins for heroes I play regularly I'd pass up the price point of a full game almost instantly, and that's without the idea of unlocking future heroes (actual game content). I have to think they'd pull more sales at lower price points, for heroes and cosmetics alike. But I don't have any data on that and I guess they've worked through it...?
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Old 05-30-2015, 07:11 PM
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For those just getting into this game, please don't be like the people I played with today.

When a big blue bubble appears over you, and some blue bars appear in your HP bar, that's getting a shield, probably from Tassadar. Not only is it not some strange mysterious debuff indicating you should run away, but in fact a buff making you harder to kill and making you regenerate. This is also true for that snake Lili keeps throwing at you and whatever the hell from the weird Zerg that keeps hanging back.

Wen you are on Blackheart's Bay, it IS good to collect doubloons and turn them in, yes, but it's not THE MOST IMPORTANT THING EVER. More important things include making sure you aren't totally abandoning a lane, defending your core, and... you know what, just never go out of your way to collect doubloons. Even when all but 2 have been turned in. Someone else will cover it. Just, just play.
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Old 05-31-2015, 11:30 AM
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So I finally got good enough at Illidan to wear my trollface to games.

I still die a lot (who, me??) especially early game, but man he's just as effective at annoying people as he is annoying to play against. Nothing like Hunting in to a fight halfway across the map, or diving at a KT or Nova out of nowhere and just eating them for breakfast. Especially KT because Illidan is the bane of my existence when I play as KT. I like to think that those KTs are the Illidan players and the tables have turned. In fact I'm taking out my frustration on innocent bystanders, but those are the costs of war.
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Old 05-31-2015, 02:16 PM
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Played a couple of AI games to get the hang of things again, then jumped into a VS match.

Drew Dragonshire. Cursed.

Totally stomped the enemy team. They were using the "LOL dragon why bother?" strategy that usually drives me bonkers, where they'd just swarm one shrine and try to stall out any kind of dragon claim while harassing. We did a 2-1-2 split and pushed towers wherever they weren't and retreated where they were. We managed to grab the dragon three times by nabbing shrines while they moved from site to site. It was a one-sided slaughter.

TLDR: stupid strats on Dragonshire are still a thing.
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Old 06-02-2015, 11:25 AM
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WHERE IS SHE

WHERE IS JOHANNA
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  #8  
Old 06-02-2015, 11:26 AM
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Important: http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/blog/...-play-6-1-2015

Also, I want Johanna, too! Also also! I've been playing this game for over a year now, what the fuck.
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Old 06-02-2015, 12:15 PM
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Forums under maintenance, can't read D:

Oh wait, recgonized from the link name. Saw that yesterday, I think!
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Old 06-02-2015, 12:49 PM
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PREPARE YOUR BUTTS SHE'LL BE HERE TODAY

https://twitter.com/BlizzHeroes/stat...21459454263296

PRAISE JESUS HALLELUJAH
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  #11  
Old 06-02-2015, 02:00 PM
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SHE'S IN THE SHOPS NOW

STOP WHATEVER YOU'RE DOING AND GO BUY HER

GO GO GO GO GO

Last edited by gahitsu; 06-02-2015 at 03:44 PM.
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Old 06-02-2015, 02:03 PM
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Also, someone tranq gat before he froths all over his keyboard...

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Old 06-02-2015, 05:05 PM
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Got her to level 5! tanky tanky tanky. Anyone else get her yet? Impressions? What kind of builds are you using?

Overall I find her really hard to kill, and she has a loooot of defensive/control potential with her skills. Which is made up by her lack of any real damage potential to speak of. Like, some tanks can do pretty respectable damage while still tanking - Diablo, ETC, Stitches (I'm never sure how but he usually does plenty, which I find odd) - but Johanna seems to hit really soft, even with her skills. You'd need to spec full dps to get any kind of numbers out on her. I feel like it will lose you most duels you try to engage in or if you get caught out - very much a team-dependent tank.



1: I've been going with the block talent in tier 1 mostly. In combination with the blind on shield you stay safe from a loooot of autoattacks. Also I don't like generic talents, though regen master + amplified healing is usually the best for tanks. D: I have tried regen master once, with laws of hope, and in combination with some Iron Skin-boosting talents, it was pretty sick how killable I wasn't.

4: Eternal Retaliation at level 4 is pretty great for condemn's cooldown - especially if you end up taking hammer at 16. Laws of Hope for some bonus regen (it roughly doubles your base regen at the start and triples it by lvl 20) plus an activated first aid effect is really nice for survival; it's a clear choice over amplified healing if you don't have a healer on your team. I'd like to try punish damage too, but I'm having trouble justifying it most of the time.


7: I've been using a lot of Battle Momentum - though I normally don't like it much on other heroes, she has such looong cooldowns; even with her slow autoattacks, it makes a noticeable difference in helping keep her abilities going, which helps with all her defensive/control abilities up (and also helps with more blocks). Unfortunately it leads to some mana problems, which has me tempted to try out the punish talent in level 1.
Also I'm not sure about the others here; the damage on flash is kindaa nice for clearing AoE mobs but seems like a pretty meager bonus in duels or teamfights. The cooldown reduction on Iron Skin is nice but without battle momentum you're looking at about 4.5 seconds off each time... which is a pretty big chunk of 20, actually... I'll have to experiment with that more. I think I still like the versatility of momentum.


10. I like falling sword over the shield, I think. Not only for the damage, but the interrupt/brief stun is still quite useful. A 2-second stun + 1-second stuns is nice, but like many skillshots it can get blocked by, say, anub bugs (fucking anub bugs blocking every goddamn skillshot, fuck!) or minions in hectic teamfights. Also, falling sword feels way more like an ult/heroic. Shield just lacks the feel of a special move.


13. Gotta be Hold your Ground, right? Added shields to your crazy shield AND a lower cooldown if it breaks on damage? Yes please? Subdue is also nice if you're already surviving well enough. I've also never really found spellshield that useful; like FF9 trances, not being able to control when it comes up means a powerful ability gets wasted a decent chunk of the time, in my experience. For a high-level passive, it's never made me -feel- more tanky. Maybe I'm insane. Also why is burning rage still in the game


16. This tier, man! The heal on shield doesn't seem like it'd be as useful as some of the others. Fanatacism is insane. Shield and become unstoppable, PLUS runspeed = PEACE OUT, BITCHES. Hammer is a lot of fun and adds some desperately-needed damage, though it's no game changer. It will hit a fort or core 3 times, and if someone is running away in a straight line can hit 2 times as well.
I haven't tried imposing presence, but alongside blocks and blinds it feels like it would be really useful for her.


20. Still need to experiment with these. Stormshield is always a safe choice. I'm not sure about Indestructible, her "Nah, I don't think I WILL die" talent. After 5 seconds, do you die anyway? Do you survive with 1 HP? Can you get healed under the shield and Not Die when the shield drops?

As for falling sword's bonus, testing it on full packs of minions with a hero in the middle it looks like you take about ~25 seconds off the cooldown. More damage is nice too, but it doesn't seem to make it ridiculous. Extra bounces on the shield is nice, especially if there are more than 2 heroes nearby - which there will be, by level 20.

Last edited by Paul le Fou; 06-02-2015 at 05:18 PM.
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  #14  
Old 06-02-2015, 10:58 PM
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Game really needs a new support.

Last new characters:
Warrior
Assassin
Specialist
Specialist
Assassin
Assassin

That traces back to when I started playing. Even if you break it down you get Tank, mage, sylv is pretty much an assassin, Whatever The Hell The Vikings Are, Melee assassin and mage.

There are currently:
10 warriors
7 support
9 specialists
11 assassins

And looking at the heroes who have models/confirmed for unclear eventual inclusion, it seems there aren't a whole lot more support chars on the way. Even looking at the unconfirmed/rumored heroes, it seems bleak. Aggra? Cenarius?
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Old 06-02-2015, 11:07 PM
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My friend was telling me about this, and apparently there's no jungling, there's no denying or even last hitting. And then I guess you share exp too, which is weird. I can get behind some of that, but apparently there's no ITEMS?! That's so weird and I really don't like that idea at all. I kinda don't like the sharing exp too, because you had to earn it before. You could really, tangibly feel when you had earned the advantage you had. Now it's just...like, you get it. Everyone gets it. It's not YOUR bonus anymore. I dunno, seems weird.

But anyway. Are people enjoying it? I thought DotA2 was too hardcore, but I got into League for a good long while. But it seems like it would just be boring by comparison? Can anyone speak to this?
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Old 06-02-2015, 11:29 PM
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No, you have to earn EXP as a team and it's the most fucking important thing in the world before 10. Falling significantly behind there is often really, really bad and random players often do not get this.
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Old 06-03-2015, 12:15 AM
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Really wish Nova was an actual SC2 ghost right now. Abusive levels of shields in this game.
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Old 06-03-2015, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alixsar View Post
My friend was telling me about this, and apparently there's no jungling, there's no denying or even last hitting. And then I guess you share exp too, which is weird. I can get behind some of that, but apparently there's no ITEMS?! That's so weird and I really don't like that idea at all. I kinda don't like the sharing exp too, because you had to earn it before. You could really, tangibly feel when you had earned the advantage you had. Now it's just...like, you get it. Everyone gets it. It's not YOUR bonus anymore. I dunno, seems weird.

But anyway. Are people enjoying it? I thought DotA2 was too hardcore, but I got into League for a good long while. But it seems like it would just be boring by comparison? Can anyone speak to this?
I've only played a smattering of League so I might have some of the comparisons wrong, but here are a few thoughts on HotS:

Laning/XP gathering is still important, especially if you can hit level 10 before the other team, or 20, but maintaining a level lead is still pretty useful in the game, and there are times where you know you're the only one soaking when you hit one of those levels and it's not a bad feeling.

Items have sort of been replaced by talents (I've only played a bit of League), where every 3 levels you get to pick from 4 or so talents on your character which can boost certain skills and tweak your build. The downside is for a lot of characters there's either one good talent choice during certain levels, or only a couple meaning there aren't nearly as many viable builds as you'd like.

And Jungling is kind of replaced by Merc camps, which if you capture them sends minions out toward the enemies, and objectives which give you massive boosts on a map, which is where most of the team fights happen.

Personally I kind of like not having to deal with last hitting or denying, but I won't lie and say that Heroes is as complex as Leage or DOTA 2. But it is a bit faster paced, faster paced, and it's pretty nice to finish a match in 20-30 minutes. From my experiences HotS is more about the moment to moment tactics, whereas League and DOTA 2 lean a little bit more on longer term strategy, but again that's just my admittedly limited experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Destil
Really wish Nova was an actual SC2 ghost right now. Abusive levels of shields in this game.
I kind of wish Nova did anything better, aside from maybe alpha striking, than most of the other assassins. It's really hard to want to play as her when comparing her to nearly every other assassin. I want to like her, but whenever I play her well, it still isn't nearly as effective as a good Valla.
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Old 06-03-2015, 01:26 AM
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I still love Nova. Racking up kills and bursting people down is so satisfying. Being the only teammate left alive and not even being able to try taking a camp, less satisfying. It's tricky because having a nova on your team is a bit of a risk roll; either she's going to just pop heads left and right or be pretty much useless. She's just more team-dependent than your Vallas or Thralls or your specialists. Sometimes I see that as a weakness and sometimes I see it as a sign of good variety in the characters and their styles.

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Originally Posted by Alixsar View Post
My friend was telling me about this, and apparently there's no jungling, there's no denying or even last hitting. And then I guess you share exp too, which is weird. I can get behind some of that, but apparently there's no ITEMS?! That's so weird and I really don't like that idea at all. I kinda don't like the sharing exp too, because you had to earn it before. You could really, tangibly feel when you had earned the advantage you had. Now it's just...like, you get it. Everyone gets it. It's not YOUR bonus anymore. I dunno, seems weird.

But anyway. Are people enjoying it? I thought DotA2 was too hardcore, but I got into League for a good long while. But it seems like it would just be boring by comparison? Can anyone speak to this?
Jungling: there are merc camps, where you kill NPCs and cap a point to send mobs against your enemies. I forget what jungling in the other games entails from my brief tenure in League, but merc camps are a strategic effort, where you need to go in a pack to get one, or you have a solo specialist getting them while others keep enemies occupied, or split up to get several. They can serve as distractions, or make strong pushes, or divert opponents toward defense; they can turn the tide of battle, when used well.

Denying: not sure what this is in moba slang, but there's no last hitting and fucking THANK GOD for that. Fiddly fucking bullshit, frustrating and distracting from the point of the game (vanquishing your enemies).

This goes into XP too: You level as a team. You work as a team. You win or lose as a team. XP is really important and you do have to work for it, because once you hit that 3-level difference you've decided the game 2 times out of 3. You have to manage people in lanes to get XP for your team while not losing teamfights or getting caught out, especially early game. Keeping the XP rolling in - for your team, not just yourself - is how games are won or lost.


And no there's no items, which is good because each character has their own talents to customize with (though there are some generic talents that many share), instead of everyone pulling from one big pool. Each character is more distinct and can still be built in several ways, and usually there isn't one optimal build. I mean there are some talents that are definitely better than others, it could be balanced better, but the same goes for any other game with items, or just having this many characters and combinations.


The other thing that sets HotS apart is its map objectives. Every map you play on is not only different geographically, but they have various objectives you need to work with your team to take care of. Kill npcs to pick up skulls to power up a golem to send against your teammate, or gather coins from camps and chests to pay off a pirate to bombard your enemy. The effects are quite powerful, so they become the most important part of the match and so each map can play differently, and they also very much emphasize team fighting and cooperation and coordination. Balancing that with good old-fashioned pushes


FWIW I played a decent chunk of League but got frustrated at a) asshole manbabies and b) the steep learning curve. HotS gives you more options to ease into the game at your own pace, which was good when I was starting, and it's a bit more streamlined, polished, and fast-paced. It got its hooks in me like other mobas have completely failed to do (including the original DOTA).

Also it's free so hey, worth trying, right?
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Old 06-03-2015, 03:44 AM
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apparently there's no ITEMS?! That's so weird and I really don't like that idea at all.
The thing of it is, items in LoL are total BS. You have this super-awkward interface to deal with, where you have dozens of dozens of options, large swaths of which are completely useless for whichever character it is you're playing, and the only time the game even gives you a chance to look over those options is when you're in the middle of a game, sitting in your base, with all the pressure in the world to just pick something quick and GO. In practice, they kinda force you to hop on the internet and research the correct build for every character you play in advance, and all that really does in practice is penalize more casual players who already have the disadvantage of being more casual players.

Even worse than items is the whole talent tree/rune business, where more experienced players are just straight up flat out given a mechanical edge.

HotS just takes all three of those, AND picking how to upgrade your QWE skills, and tosses them into a trash compactor that turns into the talent system- Every 3ish levels, you get a choice between 4 talents, unique to that level, which give you some real serious customization options, specific to that character, and a choice between 2 totally different R moves.

One of the more easily conveyed examples- One of the late game choices for Sgt. Hammer (the siege tank with vulture mines) is between letting you slowly move around without leaving siege mode, letting you just stay put while your attack range slowly expands, going from 3 to 5 mines per spewing, and... whatever the 4th choice is there.

Other talents for other characters sometimes fully unlock new abilities with their own hotkeys, double the ranges of skills, add heals or attacks on the side of defensive stuff, or just plain do stuff like extra-damage-to-heroes or adding splash damage. So, there's still plenty of customizability, but less homework.

Also all the slimming down to the basics comes before making every map super super gimmicky

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She's just more team-dependent than your Vallas or Thralls or your specialists.
Nova and Zeratul are proper assassins. They are there to murder enemy heroes when they are hurt and distracted, and that is their entire thing.

Valla and Thrall are really secretly members of the Awesome At Everything And Win The Game While Your Teammates Are All Disconnected class, but that's too long to say, so, they just lumped them in with the other "A" class.
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Old 06-03-2015, 09:48 AM
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Denying: not sure what this is in moba slang, but there's no last hitting and fucking THANK GOD for that. Fiddly fucking bullshit, frustrating and distracting from the point of the game (vanquishing your enemies).
Denying: In DOTA, you can force-attack your own minions. This means you can kill a low hp minion before your opponent last-hits it, denying them the gold. LoL does not use this mechanic* nor does HotS.


*The notable exception is old Gangplank, who had an ability called "Raise Moral" that would buff yourself and nearby champions and minions by executing one of your own mutinous minions.
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Old 06-03-2015, 09:54 AM
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This goes into XP too: You level as a team. You work as a team. You win or lose as a team. XP is really important and you do have to work for it, because once you hit that 3-level difference you've decided the game 2 times out of 3. You have to manage people in lanes to get XP for your team while not losing teamfights or getting caught out, especially early game. Keeping the XP rolling in - for your team, not just yourself - is how games are won or lost.
It's really not possible to emphasize enough how important this is, and just how many people don't get it. To reiterate:

- Every death of an enemy unit produces XP.
- Your team gets that XP if any of your heroes are in the vicinity.

In randoms, you frequently see people abandoning a lane to bulk up an early teamfight and outnumber the enemy. If it's anything but temporary, this is a terrible idea. At the same time, you've got to pay attention to the flow of the battlefield - where are the enemy heroes? What are they doing? What are your minions doing? What map mechanics are about to trigger?

It really emphasizes the team over the individual player. And I like that.
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Old 06-03-2015, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Googleshng View Post
The thing of it is, items in LoL are total BS. You have this super-awkward interface to deal with, where you have dozens of dozens of options, large swaths of which are completely useless for whichever character it is you're playing, and the only time the game even gives you a chance to look over those options is when you're in the middle of a game, sitting in your base, with all the pressure in the world to just pick something quick and GO. In practice, they kinda force you to hop on the internet and research the correct build for every character you play in advance, and all that really does in practice is penalize more casual players who already have the disadvantage of being more casual players.
...yeah, but there are a lot of easy guides available, and then you just spend 2 minutes looking one up to get a feel for it, and it's fine. And eventually you learn what all the items do so it doesn't matter because you now. I don't think that makes it bullshit. That's just how the game is. Time matters so you need to know what you're doing.

Quote:
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Even worse than items is the whole talent tree/rune business, where more experienced players are just straight up flat out given a mechanical edge.
Well, I can't disagree with you here. I liked the way the tree/rune system worked because it allowed for much greater customization/individualization, but it sucks that it was locked behind a pay wall and/or time wall (because of course it was). I wish it was just all available at once or not there at all. But it's there to make them money, so.

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Also all the slimming down to the basics comes before making every map super super gimmicky
That sounds like a nightmare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Egarwaen View Post
In randoms, you frequently see people abandoning a lane to bulk up an early teamfight and outnumber the enemy. If it's anything but temporary, this is a terrible idea. At the same time, you've got to pay attention to the flow of the battlefield - where are the enemy heroes? What are they doing? What are your minions doing? What map mechanics are about to trigger?

It really emphasizes the team over the individual player. And I like that.
...

...

...

That doesn't really sound any different from LoL or DotA, though? Hmm...


Whatever, I'm installing it. We'll see how this goes.
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  #24  
Old 06-03-2015, 11:12 AM
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What's your b.net name, Alex?
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Old 06-03-2015, 11:32 AM
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You know what's really super awesome about HotS that sets it apart from LoL and DotA? You can use all your abilities at the very start of the game. "But why does that matter, you end up learning every ability in those other games anyway?" It means you can team fight immediately and have stuff actually happen. Like, you can actually kill other heroes reliably in lanes at level 1. How much this actually matters is up for debate since the respawn timer at that point is like 5 seconds, but still. It gives a massively different feeling to the game.
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Old 06-03-2015, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Alixsar View Post
I kinda don't like the sharing exp too, because you had to earn it before. You could really, tangibly feel when you had earned the advantage you had. Now it's just...like, you get it. Everyone gets it. It's not YOUR bonus anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alixsar View Post
That doesn't really sound any different from LoL or DotA, though? Hmm...
That is the difference. In HotS it isn't your bonus, so there's no incentive to do things that help you but hurt your team. "Maximizing XP earning" isn't something you do as an individual player by last-hitting and denying. It's something you do as a team by working together.
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  #27  
Old 06-03-2015, 11:50 AM
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Paul le Fou Paul le Fou is offline
We just don't know.
 
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Originally Posted by `Hrist View Post
What's your b.net name, Alex?

More Johanna: after more experimentation, I definitely feel like blessed shield is lackluster. Feels like it should be on a short cool down with a shorter stun. More like blink heal or napalm, a rotation skill.

Under indestructible, you can indeed be healed and not die when the shield drops off. Woo! That's a strong-ass talent.

I'm really pissed about this because I played a block crusader, but block is definitely less tanky than regen master. Maybe if you're playing a bunch of auto attack heroes like Thrall or Raynor. I wish they'd done more thematically with the shield - punish blocks an attack, or block ability damage, or something.

She actually does decent damage after all. But it's more in the Stitches vein where you look at your hero damage and say "uh where did that come from?" Still won't ever lead the board though.

SO SLOW. So easy to pursue, kite, or hit from range. She's like a walking block of concrete. Without a range closer or an escape mechanism it's hard to get distance. Iron skin and pray they don't follow you, or use one of your ults. Of course she's a brick house, she's mighty mighty so it's really hard to kill her. I had an abathur on me and it actually took 3 heroes about 30 seconds to finish me off.
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  #28  
Old 06-03-2015, 11:51 AM
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SpoonyBardOL SpoonyBardOL is online now
I. Love. It.
 
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I've actually had this installed on my system since I was first able to get it in Alpha, and I've never once actually launched it.

Maybe I will. Someday. Eventually.

It's just that DOTAs and MOBAs and LOLs and junk always put me right off due to their high toxicity and difficulty to master, so I just never felt compelled to dive in. But hey, I felt the same about team-based shooters and Splatoon has gotten its hooks into me, so maybe HotS is worth a shot too.
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  #29  
Old 06-03-2015, 11:54 AM
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Alixsar Alixsar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Egarwaen View Post
That is the difference. In HotS it isn't your bonus, so there's no incentive to do things that help you but hurt your team. "Maximizing XP earning" isn't something you do as an individual player by last-hitting and denying. It's something you do as a team by working together.
Yeah I don't know if I like it as much? I played a round and it was MUCH faster paced; you're basically just fighting all the time and then working on objectives when you can. It's different, but I don't know if it's better or worse. It feels less satisfying to get powers when I didn't do anything to earn them. I dunno. It's hard to explain. I used to solo top/mid in LoL, so winning a lane early game was a great feeling, and now it feels kinda diminished somewhat. Though part of that may be because the map I was on didn't have a middle lane so top/bottom were overloaded at times; apparently other maps are different.

Anyway, it was neat. The jury is still out, but I'll try it again later.
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  #30  
Old 06-03-2015, 12:00 PM
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Daikaiju Daikaiju is online now
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I found this series to be very comprehensive for new players.

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