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  #61  
Old 04-21-2017, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by krelbel View Post
Cut to four days later and krelbel is now ranked on SpeedRunsLive

Participated in my first official race last night (ranked 7th out of 13), seventh time clearing the game since I started last week, and my first clear time under 2 hours (by exactly 2 seconds, but I'll take it!) beating my previous PB by 19 minutes! Still haven't gotten stuck on any run, which I'm pretty proud of.

This game is so good you guys!
How does it keep score? Or are you streaming this/recording it?
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  #62  
Old 04-21-2017, 01:02 PM
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How does it keep score? Or are you streaming this/recording it?
Most races just have someone pop up in the discord with a randomized ROM they generated, then everyone downloads that rom, and joins a race channel on the SRL IRC network. An IRC bot counts down, then everyone hits start the moment the IRC bot says go. The moment you exit Ganon's chamber after defeating him at the end of the game, you type ".done" into the IRC channel, and the IRC bot records your time.

It's mostly based on the honor system, but in order to participate at all, you have to stream realtime and record/publish your race, so people can verify your results afterwards if there are any questions. (My two races so far are in highlights on my brand new twitch channel I created just to be able to do this!)

(Two races because I participated in a shorter "pedestal%" race two days ago, which is a randomizer run where you race to get all three pendants and touch the pedestal where you'd normally gain the master sword, sort of the opposite of the normal randomizer run where you race to get all seven crystals and beat Ganon.)
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  #63  
Old 04-22-2017, 01:47 AM
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There's just so many chests in death mountain, especially in the dark world, that I just never remember the location of. I'm sure I'll get it with practice just like I did with LoZ rando, but LttP is just slightly too long for it to be something I'd run a lot.

Now, if they could figure out a way to mix up more than the chests, I might be more interested in the longer runs.
Well, I just participated in the debut race of a new Link to the Past randomized romhack, where the chests are randomized (as usual), but also every entrance/exit is randomized. Oh, and it was an "open" type start, which means you start out in Sanctuary or Link's house (swordless, natch, no Uncle to be found anywhere, sword occuring randomly Somewhere) and there's no Zelda to be saved; this format's becoming more popular as people tire of the first ~6 minutes of every run being the same.

There were some restrictions, of course; it still had to be beatable, and to keep things a bit reasonable, entering a dungeon sent you to a dungeon, just usually not the one you thought you were entering.

It took me a whopping 3h50m, feel free to skim through the vod of my horrible horrible run to get a taste (ignore the timer being off by several minutes, I'm still figuring out how to twitch). I got horribly stuck twice, once because Mire (located at Tower of Hera) was required and the Cane of Somaria was in a cave accessible only by the lumberjack tree that opens after killing Agahnim (accessed from where Mimic Cave normally is) something you normally skip if the lumberjack item is optional, but of course, you couldn't sneak preview the lumberjack item in this one like you can normally), and once because Skull Woods was required (both to reach Mothula, located in Misery Mire, and to reach Tower of Hera, located at the end of Skull Woods) and the fire rod was deep in Turtle Rock beyond the room you can only get through with the fire rod; this didn't break the logic because you can enter Turtle Rock from one of the back entrances later in the level if you can find them (in this case they were atop Hyrule castle, a door I didn't check until extremely late), but that totally stumped three runners.

That was an insane challenge that I probably won't repeat for a while, but it was certainly interesting!
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  #64  
Old 04-22-2017, 08:09 AM
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This is reLly cool Krelbel. Congrats on your placing.
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  #65  
Old 04-22-2017, 04:29 PM
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I wished to see a list of all the randomizers, wondering if there's a game that I know well enough to play randomized that isn't slow like an RPG. Googleshng and others might wish to check out some of the items on this Romhacking.net list, which looks a bit more robust than the one we currently have.
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  #66  
Old 04-22-2017, 05:42 PM
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Whoa, two different FFIV Ancient Caves, and a Secret of Mana one?

Could this be enough to make SoM a good game??
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  #67  
Old 04-23-2017, 06:23 AM
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Ooooh, I will be very interested to hear if any of those are worth playing. FFIV Ancient Cave is VERY interesting to me.

E: Also love seeing MM2 endless mode.
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  #68  
Old 04-23-2017, 11:22 AM
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It just says "roguelike"; I doubt it's in the form of the Ancient Cave.
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  #69  
Old 04-23-2017, 12:16 PM
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I'm doing a run of Beyond Babil now. Results will be posted crossforum.
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  #70  
Old 04-23-2017, 12:57 PM
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I fired up the Secret of Mana roguelike and it seems pretty fun. I'm not sure that it'l be much more than just beating dudes up, but that's pretty fun in that game, so wahtevs.

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Originally Posted by aturtledoesbite View Post
It just says "roguelike"; I doubt it's in the form of the Ancient Cave.
I just think of "rougelike RPG" as being an Ancient Cave hack.

It .. unfortunately is a command line program, so it's a little annoying to actually use.

on of the things is gives you is a "recommended" party ... which I promptly ignored. I would guess that's just based on the equipment available in the dungeon, so you probably could sub in a healer for a black mage if you want to gamble with that sort of thing.

I didn't play for long before leaving for work, but I imagine it'll be very grindy, considering you don't get magic "drops" or anything else other than equipment.
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  #71  
Old 04-23-2017, 03:22 PM
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Paladin Cecil x5 vs. Rubicante isn't going very well
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  #72  
Old 04-23-2017, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by aturtledoesbite View Post
Paladin Cecil x5 vs. Rubicante isn't going very well
... what??? are you playing the Roguelikeifyer version? Or can you make multiples on the Beyond Babel?
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  #73  
Old 04-23-2017, 03:40 PM
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Talk to a party member in the Lunar Whale more than once to get a duplicate.

Idk how exploitable it is but intend to find out.
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  #74  
Old 04-23-2017, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by McClain View Post
... what??? are you playing the Roguelikeifyer version? Or can you make multiples on the Beyond Babel?
The latter.

It ended up turning out okay:

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  #75  
Old 04-23-2017, 03:55 PM
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I would like to hear if anyone has tried the two FFIV ones and can compare them

E: on closer inspection, the second link is to a thread that seems to suggest it isn't very far along yet ...
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  #76  
Old 04-23-2017, 06:16 PM
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blah

Asura's gonna be tough with this party.
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  #77  
Old 04-23-2017, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by McClain View Post
I would like to hear if anyone has tried the two FFIV ones and can compare them

E: on closer inspection, the second link is to a thread that seems to suggest it isn't very far along yet ...
Yeah... I will update the list in the OP here with these if people are willing to test them/save me a little work of throwing links/proper crediting in here. If someone else is on top of pure breadth of options, may as well at least have a little curation over here.

Also when I find time that Secret of Mana one sounds damn tempting. Most of my memories of the original involve obsessive OCD grinding to max everything out as soon as possible. Finite enemies to do that with would definitely be interesting.
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  #78  
Old 04-23-2017, 08:55 PM
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And done~

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  #79  
Old 04-24-2017, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by SpoonyGundam View Post
Whoa, two different FFIV Ancient Caves
Whelp, time to lock myself in my house and never leave. Let my family know that I love them!
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  #80  
Old 04-24-2017, 10:34 PM
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I finished this Beyond Babil run if you want to check out how it works before sinking five hours of your time* into it yourself.

* - that is about how much time this run took me, according to the ingame clock.
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  #81  
Old 04-28-2017, 12:49 AM
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So I've been racing alttp randomizer on twitch kind of a lot lately, and I've had mostly good runs so far, haven't gotten really stuck once in about 14 runs total. Until tonight!



"Mirror would be nice but I think it's optional" -- krelbel 2017

Mirror was directly above me in the mini moldorm room I walked away from without checking 3 seconds before I said that. See, normally you walk up that staircase, grab the 5 chests (including the mirror this time!) in the room above you, then drop back down push the block and exit (or bomb jump if you're good). I just spaced, walked out of the room, assumed I'd just fallen down instead of walking out of the room, and pushed the block and went on my merry way. Since I assumed I'd cleared it (since this is a routine I've been through so many times before), I never went back, got stuck an hour later (turns out mirror wasn't optional!), and forfeited an hour after that. First forfeit!

Anyway ASIDE FROM THAT alttp randomizer is a hell of a lot of fun, I've been having a blast with it, and I'll probably stream it every day forever or until I get bored, usually late night PST (a time which works for basically nobody), but probably friendlier times on weekends, so come check it out if you're curious I guess? Races usually happen with very little notice but they last for a couple hours so there you go.
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  #82  
Old 04-28-2017, 04:49 AM
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Well, I crapped out on the Secret of Mana rando three floors in. The floors are HUGE and pretty open and there's no map an apparently can wrap on some sets, which is what happened to me on floor 3. I spent forever walking aimlessly unable to find the teleport until I got bored.
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  #83  
Old 05-19-2017, 02:39 PM
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So I've been racing alttp randomizer on twitch kind of a lot lately
I'm up to about 44 runs now (38 recorded races), and have been bouncing around the 60s-70s ranks on SRL for a bit now. I'd like to eventually crack the top 50, but I've raced with most of the people between me and 50 multiple times, and they usually beat me, so I've got a long way to go.

This game is still really awesome you guys! Entrance shuffle is still my favorite format, but another format has gained popularity recently: 2v2(v2v2v2...). The idea is, instead of completing the game all on your own, you pair up with someone else, with their stream visible and communicating with them on voice chat, then teams compete to see which team can get the lowest average time. To keep things simple and fair (and to remove the unpleasant playground aspect of being picked last, etc.), pairs are determined by SRL rank; the highest rank gets paired with the lowest rank, and so on.

I tried this out yesterday, and had a great time! I was surprised to see that I was one of the higher ranked players going in to the race; I was expecting to be paired with someone more experienced than me, but got paired with someone whose times are usually about 1h longer than mine, but our team still finished second so it turned out really well in the end. Neither of us had played or really thought about 2v2 matches before, so our impromptu plan was basically: split up the overworld and dungeons, more experienced player takes the trickier dungeons, then while searching your section of overworld/dungeons, tell the other player where everything important is in that section so they can complete it much more quickly. It was a whole lot of fun! I'll probably do a lot more of these in the future.

As usual, if you're ever interested in watching one of these, I stream most evenings at ungodly hours of the night for non-PST timezones, but there's always the weekly race at 3pm EST Saturday. I also have a bunch of links on my twitch page that are useful to anyone looking into getting started playing this yourself; I've also seen some great "Let's Learn LttP Randomizer" streams where a newer player has a more veteran randomizer player on voice chat as a guide, and I think this would be really fun to do if anyone's interested.

And of course, the lttp randomizer tournament is still ongoing on the speedgaming twitch. It's entered the bracket stage now, so the matches are really heating up, and watching the races there (with commentary) is always a great intro to lttp rando in general (it's how I got into it in the first place).
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  #84  
Old 05-19-2017, 05:15 PM
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Seconded. I've been watching the matches here and there, and they're fascinating. The commentary is usually quite good, too.
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  #85  
Old 05-24-2017, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by krelbel View Post
Well, I just participated in the debut race of a new Link to the Past randomized romhack, where the chests are randomized (as usual), but also every entrance/exit is randomized. Oh, and it was an "open" type start, which means you start out in Sanctuary or Link's house (swordless, natch, no Uncle to be found anywhere, sword occuring randomly Somewhere) and there's no Zelda to be saved; this format's becoming more popular as people tire of the first ~6 minutes of every run being the same.

There were some restrictions, of course; it still had to be beatable, and to keep things a bit reasonable, entering a dungeon sent you to a dungeon, just usually not the one you thought you were entering.

It took me a whopping 3h50m, feel free to skim through the vod of my horrible horrible run to get a taste (ignore the timer being off by several minutes, I'm still figuring out how to twitch). I got horribly stuck twice, once because Mire (located at Tower of Hera) was required and the Cane of Somaria was in a cave accessible only by the lumberjack tree that opens after killing Agahnim (accessed from where Mimic Cave normally is) something you normally skip if the lumberjack item is optional, but of course, you couldn't sneak preview the lumberjack item in this one like you can normally), and once because Skull Woods was required (both to reach Mothula, located in Misery Mire, and to reach Tower of Hera, located at the end of Skull Woods) and the fire rod was deep in Turtle Rock beyond the room you can only get through with the fire rod; this didn't break the logic because you can enter Turtle Rock from one of the back entrances later in the level if you can find them (in this case they were atop Hyrule castle, a door I didn't check until extremely late), but that totally stumped three runners.

That was an insane challenge that I probably won't repeat for a while, but it was certainly interesting!
Can't believe this was a month ago already! So even though I said I wouldn't repeat that for a while, I've done several more Entrance Shuffle lttp rando runs since then; it's become my favorite format to run, because of the increased routing complexity, and because of how much more of the game you get to see than you do in a normal run. My favorite is when Turtle Rock gets shuffled into Hyrule Castle or Desert Palace, making it possible (sometimes required!) to enter one of the three Turtle Rock side entrances first.

Up until this week, though, we could only race Entrance Shuffle once or twice a week, because each new rom had to be prepared by hand; they'd generate a normal chest-shuffled rom, then manually patch the entrances to shuffle them, while making sure not to break any item dependencies, which was a very time consuming and tedious process. Fortunately, we now have the ability to fully automate the generation of a new Entrance Shuffle rom using this tool.

I haven't streamed many races in the last couple days, because I was spending a lot of time beta testing the tool; there were a couple bugs early on that caused the resulting roms to be unwinnable, and nobody wants to race a rom without some assurance that it'll be winnable, so as the bugs were getting ironed out, we spent a lot of time running tool-generated roms just to increase the community's confidence that the roms the tool generated would be winnable and bug-free. And thanks to these efforts, enough people became confident enough in the tool's reliability that we just had our first race on speedrunslive last night of a fully auto-generated Entrance Shuffle rom, and it was a great success! Hooray!!

-----

IN OTHER NEWS, there's a different tool that's normally used for enemy randomization (still very unreliable with regards to generating winnable roms, so it's not commonly raced), but they've added a bunch of new features to it recently; in addition to randomizing enemy/boss placements, it can also randomize enemy HP values, damage values, and also enemy and environment palettes. This can get pretty wild, and it's mostly just proof of concept stuff at the moment. But without much fanfare, they added a new feature to it that lets you leave the rest of any rom unmodified, but swap out Link's spritesheet for a custom spritesheet, with a few built-in examples... including Zelda!! (Of course, this functionality has been around basically since lttp romhacking first became a thing, but it's nice to have it all part of the same tool.) So for all of my non-race roms lately (including all the testing runs mentioned above), I've been modifying them to play through Legend of Zelda as Zelda, and it is delightful. Highlight: The animation for Zelda using the Quake medallion is Very Badass and Very Awesome. Other highlight: The sprite for Zelda pulling objects is Very Silly.
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  #86  
Old 05-24-2017, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by krelbel View Post
IN OTHER NEWS, there's a different tool that's normally used for enemy randomization [...]. But without much fanfare, they added a new feature to it that lets you leave the rest of any rom unmodified, but swap out Link's spritesheet for a custom spritesheet, with a few built-in examples... including Zelda!! So for all of my non-race roms lately (including all the testing runs mentioned above), I've been modifying them to play through Legend of Zelda as Zelda, and it is delightful. Highlight: The animation for Zelda using the Quake medallion is Very Badass and Very Awesome. Other highlight: The sprite for Zelda pulling objects is Very Silly.
Do you have gifs or videos of those?
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  #87  
Old 05-24-2017, 04:39 PM
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Do you have gifs or videos of those?
Not handy, but I can probably whip some up this evening. Stand by!
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  #88  
Old 05-24-2017, 04:50 PM
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Not handy, but I can probably whip some up this evening. Stand by!
Nice. That sounds interesting but I don't feel like downloading a bunch of stuff and playing through the game just to see those two things. (Thanks in advance.)
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  #89  
Old 05-24-2017, 06:32 PM
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  #90  
Old 05-24-2017, 07:23 PM
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Not handy, but I can probably whip some up this evening. Stand by!
I figured it out! (pardon the clutter)



Oh, and the gem in Zelda's tiara is green for green mail, blue for blue mail, red for red mail. I love it.
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