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  #31  
Old 08-12-2011, 07:58 AM
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JMS really did a masterful job of retooling the different characters on the fly while keeping the basic story on track. The only time things really got screwed up was when Claudia Christian left right before Season 5.
I remember reading that he deliberately built "trapdoors" into the stories of each of them, so that he could replace them on the fly if he needed to. The only one that I think he really had to pull out was Talia, though.
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  #32  
Old 08-12-2011, 09:37 AM
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That's a smart approach, but I wish that he had a solution better than "replace them with another character who just picks up the arc right where it left off" Talia/Lyta, Ivanova/Lochley.
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  #33  
Old 08-12-2011, 10:15 AM
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I agree. It was good to have everything planned to avoid that BSG problem, but Sheridan in s2ep1 really just becoming Sinclair is weird. Also Lenier just busting out the biggest secret to Sheridan, a stranger, and Ivonava.. Who didn't need to know. That news was made for Sinclair. Incidentally why did Lennier even know about it? Delenn's aide sure, but not in Grey Council. Anyhooo - forward ho!
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  #34  
Old 08-12-2011, 10:38 AM
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But it's not like the arc is exactly the same. For example, instead of getting her "gift" from Jason Ironheart like Talia did, Lyta ended up being "touched by Vorlons." Ultimately, both of these things played in rather nicely to their individual arcs.

I recall reading JMS saying that he intentionally switched gears to Sheridan because he needed a lead with a more personal connection to the Shadows. Dunno, if that's true, but it makes sense. Sinclair's story most tied into the Minbari, and that 75 percent resolved at the end of the first season.
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  #35  
Old 08-12-2011, 11:01 AM
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And from a purely practical PoV, Sinclair had no real chemistry with any of the rest of the cast. He was too much of a Star Trek Captain - a passive goody-goody. Sheridan at least has some tension in his relationship with the Mimbari, and having the only Earth Force Captain to kill a Mimbari battleship is way more interesting than some schmoe who just happened to have his fighter tractored in by a curious flagship while his unit's being annihilated. It makes Sheridan more of an active protagonist, which was what the show really needed.
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  #36  
Old 08-12-2011, 11:17 AM
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Yeah, I left out Sinclair/Sheridan because, a couple of plot hiccups aside, it was clear that the replacement was because they actually had a different direction in mind for the captain figure.
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  #37  
Old 08-12-2011, 11:28 AM
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Okay, yeah, I see that. I did find what I'd heard about Talia's arc to be much more interesting that what we got for Lyta. You remember that episode with the weird guy with the computer brain who had the nonsensical conversation with Kosh? Apparently that was Kosh getting a brain-dump of the Talia personality. She was supposed to become a villain, and then have her real personality restored by Kosh - effectively turning the Psi Corps' own double-agent gambit against it.
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  #38  
Old 08-12-2011, 01:11 PM
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Okay, yeah, I see that. I did find what I'd heard about Talia's arc to be much more interesting that what we got for Lyta. You remember that episode with the weird guy with the computer brain who had the nonsensical conversation with Kosh? Apparently that was Kosh getting a brain-dump of the Talia personality. She was supposed to become a villain, and then have her real personality restored by Kosh - effectively turning the Psi Corps' own double-agent gambit against it.
That would have been cool, but I definitely think that having Lyta's Vorlon connection play out in the killing of the second Kosh and the destruction of Z'ha'Dum was worth losing that.
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  #39  
Old 08-13-2011, 05:31 PM
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I just find after now rewatching s1 and the Gathering - all these plot threads culminate in an anti climax in s2 ep1. I kind of like how Michael O Hare looks as well. He looks odd. Bruce B looks like some Hollywood pud. He looks like an actor - if that makes sense. HOWEVER. . I know the good stuff is to come. So I won't be that much of an ass.

Insect gangster dude - appears outside s1?
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  #40  
Old 08-13-2011, 07:16 PM
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Insect gangster dude - appears outside s1?
Nope, fans didn't like him. Looked too cheesy.

Should have gotten a muppet instead, like Farscape.

B5 pioneered the all-cgi alien effect in the Season One episode "Grail", though.
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  #41  
Old 08-13-2011, 10:19 PM
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He was! But still neat. So they say Sheridan was the president's choice to replace sinclair. Clark or Santiago?
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  #42  
Old 08-13-2011, 11:00 PM
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He was! But still neat. So they say Sheridan was the president's choice to replace sinclair. Clark or Santiago?
President Clark's. Since Sheridan is a war hero, he figured he was a safe choice.
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  #43  
Old 09-16-2011, 11:49 PM
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And we're back

So eps 5+6 of s2.

These were pretty bad. "The Long Dark had Barclay fearing an evil alien that attacked him and his squad years ago, whilst the ship carrying said alien (a pre jump earth ship) was also carrying a recently widowed woman who Dr Franklin macks on very unprofessionally. Also he gives a very tacky over written response to a question, probably sounded profound to the smarmy writer:

Mariah Cirrus: What else have I missed?
Franklin: The usual. The good times, and the bad times, the revelations, the revolutions. Outbreaks of hysteria, the parade of scandals, promises, constitutions, and the occasional war. The last big ones were against the Dilgar, which we won, and against the Minbari, which.. Well, that's a long story.

NEXT! A dead dude brought back by Bureau 13 (heh - this must be where Section 31 came from, but to be fair PSICorps already fulfills this and they work for the Bureau anyway) to assassinate Adrienne Barbeau of the MARS freedom movement.

Some interesting ideas, but neither of these bottle eps do anything for me even if the expand the universe a little.
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  #44  
Old 09-17-2011, 12:17 AM
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The Long Dark does hint broadly at "the coming darkness though," which makes it useful
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  #45  
Old 09-17-2011, 01:59 AM
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Londo's wives. Sweet Christ. Akin to the worst of ds9 zek / moogie eps

Also: Delenn's hair! Makeover with Ivonava! Aghhhh

Some may hate scifi spirituality, but I hate scifi attempts at forced, obnoxious, precious, "cute" humour. Woof
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  #46  
Old 09-20-2011, 01:15 AM
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Sheridan talking down Gkar - awesome.

Gripe time: this show has really flat lighting. This stands in contrast to ds9 which is sumptuous in comparison. Also the ep with the Streibs. Terrible set for alien ship - could have been improved by clever lighting. And the grey alien mask for the Streib made me irate! But a good ep nonetheless, really advances characterization for Sheridan
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  #47  
Old 09-20-2011, 11:28 AM
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Londo's wives. Sweet Christ. Akin to the worst of ds9 zek / moogie eps
I actually really liked the Londo's Wives episode, but I openly admit that Londo and G'Kar are two of my favorite characters. (Sheridan, Ivanova, and Marcus are the other three) My wife actually really enjoyed it too, and she'd hated Londo until then. It was a little cheesy, but overall a well-executed look into Londo's character.

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Gripe time: this show has really flat lighting. This stands in contrast to ds9 which is sumptuous in comparison. Also the ep with the Streibs. Terrible set for alien ship - could have been improved by clever lighting. And the grey alien mask for the Streib made me irate! But a good ep nonetheless, really advances characterization for Sheridan
The lighting gets noticeably better as the show progresses and the production budget increases.
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  #48  
Old 09-20-2011, 12:16 PM
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The bits where Londo get "human sayings" wrong are rather great. One in a conversation with Vir is front and center, but others are blink and you'll miss them.
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  #49  
Old 09-20-2011, 02:18 PM
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Londo's wives. Sweet Christ. Akin to the worst of ds9 zek / moogie eps
Does not compute. London is the funniest character in the show (G'Kar is number two). That episode is great for a number of reasons:

1. Provides insight into Londo as a character. "With you, I will always know where I stand." Kind of a metaphor for the whole Centauri court, really.

2. It further illustrates his rise to power and prominence in the Centaurum, with his reward being the ability to divorce his wives.

Also, the Coming of Shadows was briefly mentioned, which is not enough. It's the best episode of the series this side of Zha'ha'dum. Downright tragic, really. It really cemented Londo and G'kar as the heart and soul of the series,
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  #50  
Old 09-20-2011, 03:40 PM
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Does not compute. London is the funniest character in the show (G'Kar is number two). That episode is great for a number of reasons:

1. Provides insight into Londo as a character. "With you, I will always know where I stand." Kind of a metaphor for the whole Centauri court, really.

2. It further illustrates his rise to power and prominence in the Centaurum, with his reward being the ability to divorce his wives.

Also, the Coming of Shadows was briefly mentioned, which is not enough. It's the best episode of the series this side of Zha'ha'dum. Downright tragic, really. It really cemented Londo and G'kar as the heart and soul of the series,
All that is fine, but a reason why Gkar and Londo rule so much is because of the awesome acting of Peter Jurasik and Commander Tomaluk. When placed against the shrill, broad caricature of his 3 wives it's all the more jarring. ANYWAY

Londo has moved to the dark navy blue Jacket now and is friendless. His conversation with only friend Garibaldi was awesome.

GROPOS - Captain Tyrell as Dr Franklin's father, has lame Police Academy instructor stick, but otherwise OK guest star. More awesome is Ken Foree headbutting people. Morose ending and a pretty awesome episode.

Streib episode - The main plot thrust of the Streib testing ship is unimportant next to the ending plot threads of Sheridan's purpose on b5, and the knowledge that other people are wary of Clarke's dubious presidency.

ALSO - Sinclair sends message to Garibaldi and first mention of the rangers. Good stuff.
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  #51  
Old 09-22-2011, 12:31 AM
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Kosh's suit rules.
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  #52  
Old 09-22-2011, 01:15 AM
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Kosh's suit rules.
What's it done now.
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  #53  
Old 09-22-2011, 01:28 AM
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Oh nothing, just like the way it looks. Wasnt their an evil vorlon later?
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  #54  
Old 09-22-2011, 01:38 AM
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Oh nothing, just like the way it looks. Wasnt their an evil vorlon later?
Spoiler tags!

And yes, there is. In fact, I just *loved* the twist that the entire race is evil, just like the Shadows are evil. Say what you want about B5, framing the entire Shadow War in shades of gray is pure genius.
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  #55  
Old 09-22-2011, 03:37 PM
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Spoiler tags!

And yes, there is. In fact, I just *loved* the twist that the entire race is evil, just like the Shadows are evil. Say what you want about B5, framing the entire Shadow War in shades of gray is pure genius.
Not evil, just dogmatic and condescending. Both races were like that actually. I always like the notion of B5 being about humanity "growing up" and being ready to truly move into the stars.
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  #56  
Old 09-22-2011, 11:49 PM
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Vorlons are Shin Megami Tensei angels, although that was a little bit blatant.
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  #57  
Old 09-23-2011, 02:12 AM
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The isn 36 hours on babylon5 ep is fucking incredible. Plus a mention of Senator Hidoshi!
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  #58  
Old 09-23-2011, 07:27 PM
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The isn 36 hours on babylon5 ep is fucking incredible. Plus a mention of Senator Hidoshi!
Best part: The Psi Corps Commercial.

"We're everywhere... for your convenience!"
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  #59  
Old 09-24-2011, 03:10 PM
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Not evil, just dogmatic and condescending. Both races were like that actually. I always like the notion of B5 being about humanity "growing up" and being ready to truly move into the stars.
Exactly! There's no such thing as absolute evil in the B5 universe, which was quite refreshing back then. The closest the show has to a "bwahahaha! evil!" villain would be Clarke - who, conveniently, remains offscreen during the entire series. Well, and Cartagia, but he is insane and wouldn't be able to distinguish between "good", "evil" and "purple".

Even Bester had a reason for being such a magnificent bastard! Heck, G'Kar was the 'villain' of the first season!
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  #60  
Old 09-24-2011, 03:15 PM
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This thread needs more Zathras.

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