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  #151  
Old 05-18-2017, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Mogri View Post
The lower number obviously makes things more difficult for the protagonists, but I believe in you and also you have the rest of TT at your disposal, so we're going with the more difficult 3 loops on this one rather than the lenient 4.
Translation: Mogri is mad that he lost and is out for blood.
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  #152  
Old 05-18-2017, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Mogri View Post
Toss away your old reference sheets. It's time for this beast. (If the direct link doesn't work, try the link on this page.) We just need the first page of that PDF -- the second is the First Steps summary, and we're way past that.
can someone reupload this so that i don't need to create a BGG account to view it
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  #153  
Old 05-18-2017, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by aturtledoesbite View Post
can someone reupload this so that i don't need to create a BGG account to view it
you should have a BGG account, tho
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  #154  
Old 05-18-2017, 02:17 PM
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creating one sounds like effort
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  #155  
Old 05-18-2017, 02:28 PM
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Loop 1, Day 1

muteKi is the leader.



Mastermind actions

I play three cards, targeting , and the Shrine.

Protagonist actions

It's loop 1, so you're probably screwed regardless. But hey, here's a fun fact: see all those "[Loop End] LOOP" lines on the Basic Tragedy main plot? Yeah, that means that after six days, you might just lose for no discernible reason.

Well, have fun!




...Oh, right. Since we're doing Basic Tragedy now, you do get a Final Guess if you lose all three loops. That means that if you manage to name the main plot, both subplots, and all character roles, you can win despite all my best efforts. So maybe try to figure out who's who? I dunno.
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  #156  
Old 05-18-2017, 02:33 PM
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Mogri, I'd be interested in a recap of your thoughts during the last game, since you got to see ours but we couldn't see yours. If you're too busy, though, no sweat.
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  #157  
Old 05-18-2017, 02:33 PM
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so, considering Mogri is targeting the Shrine, and we have the Foul Evil incident...

i'd bet our Main Plot is The Sealed Item

so until we have any better ideas, it might be a good idea to Forbid Intrigue on the shrine

Beyond that, maybe try pumping Goodwill for the Shrine Maiden and Police Officer? I dunno.
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  #158  
Old 05-18-2017, 02:36 PM
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Hey Mogri

If a Culprit is dead when their Incident is set to occur, does it happen? Would it matter if the Culprit was Panicked before they died?
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  #159  
Old 05-18-2017, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aturtledoesbite View Post
Hey Mogri

If a Culprit is dead when their Incident is set to occur, does it happen? Would it matter if the Culprit was Panicked before they died?
An incident cannot happen if the culprit is dead.

Gerad, that's a great idea. I'll go back and try to annotate my plays, but it'll be less effective after the fact. For this game and any others, I'll make notes as I go.
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  #160  
Old 05-18-2017, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Mogri View Post
An incident cannot happen if the culprit is dead.

Gerad, that's a great idea. I'll go back and try to annotate my plays, but it'll be less effective after the fact. For this game and any others, I'll make notes as I go.
I'd still appreciate it, and it'll be interesting going forward for more games. Thanks.
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  #161  
Old 05-18-2017, 03:14 PM
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Okay, here goes.

Loop 1, Day 1
This was an easy play. Get the Girl Student with the Shrine Maiden and watch the fireworks. Loop 1 should always be a shoo-in for the mastermind, especially in this scenario.

Loop 2, Day 1
Intrigue +2 on the Girl Student was way too greedy, in hindsight, and it probably lost me the game. I started pumping Paranoia on the Killer here, thinking maybe I could Murder the Girl Student. Meanwhile, I was pretty sure the Shrine Maiden would get slapped with Forbid Movement, and if I could burn that, it was worth playing the card. The Doctor's death here was unfortunate, since he was the Brain, and I could've used that.

Loop 2, Day 2
I abandoned ship on the Office Worker, figuring that it would be too difficult to get another Paranoia on him and get him with the Girl Student. I was right -- the protagonists moved him out of the way. Instead, I decided here to focus on pumping the Girl Student's Paranoia in preparation for the Suicide.

Loop 2, Day 3
I had two days to get one more Paranoia on the Girl Student if Suicide was to succeed. I bluffed doing something with the Police Officer, much to my detriment. The protagonists caught a big break when the Police Officer died, but even having the Paranoia on the Girl Student was going to be useful for day 4. I also moved the Boy Student out of the way to give me a better shot at Serial Killing the Girl Student later.

Loop 2, Day 4
The obvious play was to Move ↕ the Shrine Maiden and Paranoia +1 the Girl Student. It was too easily blocked. I decided I needed to go for the Serial Killer play. I put Move ⤧ on the Office Worker to prevent the protagonists from moving him to the Shrine and blocking the kill. Move ↕ on the Girl Student was necessary to get her to the Shrine Maiden. Move ↔ on the Shrine Maiden meant I could win against both Forbid Movement and the odd Move ↕ (since she'd try to go to the City in that case). Unfortunately, I couldn't do anything against Move ↔. If I had two of them, Move ↕ on both girls would have been best.

Relative to the protagonists, the mastermind has far fewer movement options. Move ⤧ is a very powerful tool, but the mastermind lacks Forbid Movement (which would be really useful on a variety of occasions, like that last day) and only one each of the regular moves. The protagonists can collectively use the same movement on three characters. The mastermind's toolset is limited, so he really needs to rely on misdirection and information hiding to win.

But the fun part about Tragedy Looper is that even when the protagonists have figured out what the mastermind is trying to do, they still have to guess how he's going to try to do it. In Basic Tragedy, the Final Guess mitigates but doesn't remove that aspect. It just makes the mastermind's job that much trickier.

Overall, the game is ultimately probably weighted a bit in favor of the protagonists -- at least with the early scenarios I've played -- but that's part of the fun of being the mastermind.
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  #162  
Old 05-18-2017, 03:21 PM
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Our biggest break probably came on the first Day of the second loop. Redge blocking your trump card (+2 Intrigue) was a major blow, and the Doctor dying really limited your options going forward.

Us ridding ourselves of the Cop on night 3 definitely shifted things drastically in our favor on the final day.

If we had gone onto the final loop, we'd probably have lost. We wouldn't have had confirmation of who the killer was, and by the time we figured it out it would have been hard to stop you from playing the 4 intrigue instakill.
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  #163  
Old 05-18-2017, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Mogri View Post
Okay, here goes.

Loop 1, Day 1
This was an easy play. Get the Girl Student with the Shrine Maiden and watch the fireworks. Loop 1 should always be a shoo-in for the mastermind, especially in this scenario.

Loop 2, Day 1
Intrigue +2 on the Girl Student was way too greedy, in hindsight, and it probably lost me the game. I started pumping Paranoia on the Killer here, thinking maybe I could Murder the Girl Student. Meanwhile, I was pretty sure the Shrine Maiden would get slapped with Forbid Movement, and if I could burn that, it was worth playing the card. The Doctor's death here was unfortunate, since he was the Brain, and I could've used that.

Loop 2, Day 2
I abandoned ship on the Office Worker, figuring that it would be too difficult to get another Paranoia on him and get him with the Girl Student. I was right -- the protagonists moved him out of the way. Instead, I decided here to focus on pumping the Girl Student's Paranoia in preparation for the Suicide.

Loop 2, Day 3
I had two days to get one more Paranoia on the Girl Student if Suicide was to succeed. I bluffed doing something with the Police Officer, much to my detriment. The protagonists caught a big break when the Police Officer died, but even having the Paranoia on the Girl Student was going to be useful for day 4. I also moved the Boy Student out of the way to give me a better shot at Serial Killing the Girl Student later.

Loop 2, Day 4
The obvious play was to Move ↕ the Shrine Maiden and Paranoia +1 the Girl Student. It was too easily blocked. I decided I needed to go for the Serial Killer play. I put Move ⤧ on the Office Worker to prevent the protagonists from moving him to the Shrine and blocking the kill. Move ↕ on the Girl Student was necessary to get her to the Shrine Maiden. Move ↔ on the Shrine Maiden meant I could win against both Forbid Movement and the odd Move ↕ (since she'd try to go to the City in that case). Unfortunately, I couldn't do anything against Move ↔. If I had two of them, Move ↕ on both girls would have been best.

Relative to the protagonists, the mastermind has far fewer movement options. Move ⤧ is a very powerful tool, but the mastermind lacks Forbid Movement (which would be really useful on a variety of occasions, like that last day) and only one each of the regular moves. The protagonists can collectively use the same movement on three characters. The mastermind's toolset is limited, so he really needs to rely on misdirection and information hiding to win.

But the fun part about Tragedy Looper is that even when the protagonists have figured out what the mastermind is trying to do, they still have to guess how he's going to try to do it. In Basic Tragedy, the Final Guess mitigates but doesn't remove that aspect. It just makes the mastermind's job that much trickier.

Overall, the game is ultimately probably weighted a bit in favor of the protagonists -- at least with the early scenarios I've played -- but that's part of the fun of being the mastermind.
Thanks. Yeah, the Doctor killing was a stroke of pure luck. Though I imagine completely lucky swings like that, one way or another, are common in this game.
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  #164  
Old 05-18-2017, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aturtledoesbite View Post
so, considering Mogri is targeting the Shrine, and we have the Foul Evil incident...

i'd bet our Main Plot is The Sealed Item

so until we have any better ideas, it might be a good idea to Forbid Intrigue on the shrine

Beyond that, maybe try pumping Goodwill for the Shrine Maiden and Police Officer? I dunno.
It could also be a Giant Time Bomb if the Shrine Maiden is a Witch. Also, thanks for the imgur, at least for this round
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  #165  
Old 05-18-2017, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mogri View Post
In that case, she would not move -- her destination would be illegal.

edit: turtled
I thought turtles were supposed to be slow...
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  #166  
Old 05-18-2017, 05:58 PM
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I say we pump good will on the shrine maiden, forbid intrigue on the shrine, and maybe move the class rep west? It could be interesting to see what happens to the two people with cards on them if they're left alone.
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  #167  
Old 05-18-2017, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Nodal View Post
It could also be a Giant Time Bomb if the Shrine Maiden is a Witch. Also, thanks for the imgur, at least for this round
That's true. Either way, we should definitely keep an eye on Mogri attempting to put Intrigue on the Shrine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodal View Post
I say we pump good will on the shrine maiden, forbid intrigue on the shrine, and maybe move the class rep west? It could be interesting to see what happens to the two people with cards on them if they're left alone.
That seems like a good enough idea for now. muteKi, you around? Wanna weigh in?
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  #168  
Old 05-18-2017, 07:33 PM
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Hey! Sorry! I've been taking care of dinner-related stuff since getting off work so I haven't quite been at the computer long enough for this. Let me give everything a look over or two before I weigh in.
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  #169  
Old 05-18-2017, 07:34 PM
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how dare you deal with things such as 'dinner'

this is unacceptable
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  #170  
Old 05-18-2017, 08:00 PM
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"Time Bomb" and "Sealed Item" only matter if the Witch's location / shrine has +2 intrigue on the sixth day, correct? That is, we don't immediately lose in the second case if the shrine gets +2 intrigue?

We should still play forbid intrigue on the shrine regardless, since it will bite us in the ass if intrigue builds there. I like all our ideas so far. I think we should play +1 goodwill on the shrine maiden for now, since we will need to worry about the intrigue count by day 3, which gives us time until then and wiggle room by saving our +2 cards. (We will eventually want to use that goodwill ability -- or, if we can't, would be a dead ringer for the time bomb scenario)

Moving the class rep west is probably a good idea. (I wouldn't do forbid movement on her since we may want the card later.)
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  #171  
Old 05-18-2017, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by muteKi View Post
"Time Bomb" and "Sealed Item" only matter if the Witch's location / shrine has +2 intrigue on the sixth day, correct? That is, we don't immediately lose in the second case if the shrine gets +2 intrigue?
Correct; they specify [Loop End] and not [Day End].

In that case.

Goodwill +1 on Shrine Maiden
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  #172  
Old 05-19-2017, 05:10 AM
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Move class rep <> let's see how this goes.
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  #173  
Old 05-19-2017, 06:25 AM
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Loop 1, Day 1 actions

⛩️Shrine Intrigue +1 Forbid Intrigue
Nothing happens.
Paranoia +1 Move ↔
Class Rep moves to City and gains .
Goodwill +1
Shrine Maiden gains .
Intrigue +2
Girl Student gains ★★.



Mastermind abilities

Nothing happens.

Goodwill abilities

Nothing happens.

Incidents

None today.

End of day

Loop 1, Day 2

aturtledoesbite is the leader.



☹ 1/2 ♥ 1/3-5 ★★

Mastermind actions

I play three cards, targeting , and .

Protagonist actions

No incident today. Foul Evil tomorrow.

Last edited by Mogri; 05-19-2017 at 06:59 AM.
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  #174  
Old 05-19-2017, 10:53 AM
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Is someone still trying to kill the Girl Student? That poor kid just can't catch a break.
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  #175  
Old 05-19-2017, 01:37 PM
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No no, clearly she's a killer this time, out for revenge.
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  #176  
Old 05-19-2017, 01:42 PM
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They're all killers in their hearts.

So... gonna play some cards?
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  #177  
Old 05-19-2017, 01:43 PM
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Anywho, I get the feeling that Mogri forbade goodwill on SHRINE GIRL. I also don't like the paranoia on POSTER GIRL. Maybe put a -1 on her? I think we want to move OFFICE MAN, though. Probably away from GIRL, since she has Intrigue.
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  #178  
Old 05-19-2017, 02:38 PM
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I would say move horizontal on MR OFFICE. I agree that SHRINE GIRL probably has forbid goodwill. I think we should play some goodwill just in case: I would suggest either COP to prevent a death later or INFORMER in order to get ourselves closer to learning a subplot. I favor the latter, since I don't think we'll be able to away with a victory this loop anyway, and may wind up in circumstances (sealed item main plot + constant playing of forbid goodwill on shrine maiden; foul evil incident means shrine always reaches intrigue limit) where we can't actually win by cards ever; then we could only win by final guess.
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  #179  
Old 05-19-2017, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muteKi View Post
foul evil incident means shrine always reaches intrigue limit
From what I understand, all Incidents have a Culprit, even the ones that don't actually use the Culprit. So as long as Foul Evil's Culprit doesn't get Panicked, the Shrine's Intrigue won't rise.

Mogri, is that right?
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  #180  
Old 05-19-2017, 04:25 PM
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Yes. The culprit is not necessarily a role-bearing character, either, though I think the pack-in scripts like to do it that way for story reasons.
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