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  #31  
Old 01-11-2017, 03:14 PM
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P.N.03 was great! Man, I forgot about that one. It also served as the skeleton for Mercenaries mode in RE 4 and 5. Like, the combo system and music were just ripped directly from P.N.03.

From didn't develop 3D Dot Game Heroes, they just published it. The rest of your point still stands though.
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  #32  
Old 01-11-2017, 04:56 PM
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I just played Vanquish. I enjoyed it. It feels like you're more mobile than the level design really accounts for, but it was a good time. Graphically nutso, too. If there are more big bosses like the first one, I'll keep playing.
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  #33  
Old 01-11-2017, 06:44 PM
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All of the PlatinumGames/Clover Studios games I've played have been at least very good. Except for Viewtiful Joe: Double Trouble. I didn't like that one very much.

I really need to play Vanquish and Revengeance.
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  #34  
Old 01-11-2017, 06:54 PM
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Revengeance is actually one of my least favorite games by them. The combat never especially clicked with me (neither did Bayonetta's for that matter) and what they did with Raiden's character was absolutely baffling in light of the events of MGS4 to the point where it detracted from my enjoyment of the game. The boss fights are pretty okay and yes that final series of cutscenes against the final boss is incredible but overall I don't think it's that high up on my list.
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  #35  
Old 01-11-2017, 07:04 PM
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Okami is blurry as fuck and kills my eyes so I can't play it. I have a untouched PS2 copy that I bought new at full price and the HD release on Steam. Thinking about that money now makes me sad.

I played the first few levels of Revengeance and it was so over-the-top stupid that I had to stop. The gameplay was all right but everything else was offensively bad.
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  #36  
Old 01-11-2017, 11:41 PM
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I like PG immensely. They release a lot of great games, a lot of good but flawed games, and maybe only one game I'd call bad (Turtles). Yes, I didn't think Korra was all that bad. They worked under Activision and made a downloadable games (likely with a low budget) that was instantly the best Avatar based game. You've got to admit that's at least a bit impressive.

They are one of the industry's bright spots. A Japanese developer bringing wild, creative, slick-feeling and playing games. One of the last Japanese developers who actually matter.

They arguably have been in a bit of a rut, as it seems like lately all they do is release Yet Another Platinum Action Game to the point that they feel like Telltale, but with long cutscenes replaced with cutting giant robots in half with katanas. Or like Grasshopper/Suda51 with a grasp on competent game design.

Still, even among those games, they had their own identities. Rising is still Metal Gear as hell, with funny (and thematically appropriate) cutscenes and codec convos that goof on the MG universe. Transformers is one of the only times when a loot-driven game appealed to me--I replayed that game over and over with multiple characters until I hit a difficulty brick-wall I couldn't crack (Magnus). Nier looks fantastic from what I've seen. It already looks like I will like it far more than the original game.

If there's a common thread I would say their games generally have fantastic core mechanics, but often suffer due to limited, repetitive, or weak level design.

Quote:
Originally Posted by conchobhar View Post
What does that matter? Bloat doesn't retroactively become tight and considered just because there's no (well, one) follow up, and I'd be hard-pressed to believe Okami was deliberately designed to be a "full" and exhausting experience because no sequels were expected.
I think Okami is a fantastic game. I'm playing the HD version now, actually, and 14+hours in I am still having the time of my life. I don't remember how far I got until it started to get repetitive, but I think beating it on PS2 was 40 hours for me.

The parts of Okami that are really good are longer than most games released now. So even if the tail-end of is is far inferior--that still makes it more inviting than Final Fantasy XIII. :P

I do think Okami gets a lot of spite-love from some people, though. It was released in very close proximity to Twilight Princess, also known in some circles as The Worst Zelda Game. EVEEEER for a while. So there seemed to be a lot of internet arguments that championed it as an underdog over its obvious inspiration.

Oh, and despite it Clover/PG having nothing to do with it, I liked Okami-Den a lot, even if my hand didn't by the end of it. Although I think few people here liked it.

Anarchy Reigns seems to have gotten no love here. Ah well, can't blame anyone. After that scant few weeks where it was actually possible to get a bunch of good multiplayer matches together online, there was only single player left. Which is a weird spinoff to Mad World with an amazing soundtrack.

Last edited by Andrew; 01-11-2017 at 11:54 PM.
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  #37  
Old 01-12-2017, 01:15 AM
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Halfbrick's excellent top-down Avatar games on GBA remain the gold standard.

Korra was okay.
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  #38  
Old 01-12-2017, 02:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
I liked Okami-Den a lot, even if my hand didn't by the end of it. Although I think few people here liked it.
It was a charming game for one run, but it was insanely talky and the battle system was largely just passable and the endgame was such a soul-crushing slog I had no real interest in playing through it again.

Also (PLOT SPOILERS HERE), I don't give a flying fuck if it's one of those "I know you're in there somewhere" moments, you do not beat a puppy to near-death in a cutscene and not expect me to hold it against your game. Especially not when it's to get through to a possessed companion I knew all of an hour or two, and ESPECIALLY especially not when I just mauled the crap out of another traitorous companion who I was with for like 1/3rd of the game with no problem.
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  #39  
Old 01-12-2017, 03:00 AM
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Okami is a great game but my god I despise Issun. Misogynist asshole who chats way too much and just tells you the answer to like half the games puzzles. Worst sidekick in a game ever.

I still don't understand why Okami is so often put over Twilight Princess when they suffer from so much of the same flaws

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Originally Posted by muteKi View Post
Bayonetta really took a long time to properly grasp for me, but once it did, holy fuck

Biggest thing killing the game for me was the way it gates away moves and weapons. If I had more of them from the start the game would be more interesting -- everything's way more fun on replay for that reason.
Character action games love to make you buy basic, essential parts of your moveset from the store instead of just giving it from the start and it's stupid as hell
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  #40  
Old 01-12-2017, 03:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludendorkk View Post
I still don't understand why Okami is so often put over Twilight Princess when they suffer from so much of the same flaws
Well let's see, one is set in Japan with a very colorful visual style inspired by Japanese paintings, and the other is basically just Ocarina of Time with more polygons and a dog.

I wish Okami HD was on PS4. Or at least PS Now. Capcom has no problem with porting the same few Resident Evil games to everything, why not it too?
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  #41  
Old 01-12-2017, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Well let's see, one is set in Japan with a very colorful visual style inspired by Japanese paintings, and the other is basically just Ocarina of Time with more polygons and a dog.
That's really not true about Twilight Princess.

Anyway, i've never played Okami and i'm curious to know if the game has good dungeons like the ones from TP. The dungeons are my favorite part of Zelda, so... Can anyone answer me this?

About PlatinumGames: i've only played Viewtiful Joe. It is almost one of my favorite games of all time, but certain stages of it... *sigh*
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  #42  
Old 01-12-2017, 07:15 AM
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It does not. At least not in the half of the game I've played. The game fools you into thinking it might have Zelda dungeons at the beginning, but then it pretty much drops the idea.
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  #43  
Old 01-12-2017, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanto View Post
It does not. At least not in the half of the game I've played. The game fools you into thinking it might have Zelda dungeons at the beginning, but then it pretty much drops the idea.
Is it just basically an action game with occasional NPCs to talk to or something then? People discuss it as a Zelda like, but I'm not sure what that means without the dungeons.
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  #44  
Old 01-12-2017, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanto View Post
It does not. At least not in the half of the game I've played. The game fools you into thinking it might have Zelda dungeons at the beginning, but then it pretty much drops the idea.
I really want to know how you define "Zelda-like dungeon" now, since in Okami you are constantly gaining new abilities and items that you use to navigate through various environments while having to solve puzzles, collect keys, and fight bad guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by estragon View Post
Is it just basically an action game with occasional NPCs to talk to or something then? People discuss it as a Zelda like, but I'm not sure what that means without the dungeons.
I honestly have no idea what he's talking about. The game has a bunch!
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  #45  
Old 01-12-2017, 08:00 AM
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I didn't ask if the game had dungeons, i asked if the game had "good dungeons" like the Zelda ones - i meant good dungeon design. That was what Tanto answered, and thanks dude!
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  #46  
Old 01-12-2017, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muteKi View Post
Bayonetta really took a long time to properly grasp for me, but once it did, holy fuck

Biggest thing killing the game for me was the way it gates away moves and weapons. If I had more of them from the start the game would be more interesting -- everything's way more fun on replay for that reason.
I wonder if it would be too overwhelming to have absolutely everything open from the start. I feel like gating stuff off helped me learn the game. I had to actually take the time to try things out as I unlocked them.
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  #47  
Old 01-12-2017, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juca View Post
I didn't ask if the game had dungeons, i asked if the game had "good dungeons" like the Zelda ones - i meant good dungeon design. That was what Tanto answered, and thanks dude!
I found Okami to be way more fun than Twilight Princess in pretty much every way, so if that's what you're looking for maybe don't dismiss it out of hand.
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  #48  
Old 01-12-2017, 08:48 AM
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Okami absolutely has Zelda-style dungeons, though I would say they are generally not as complex as Zelda's.
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  #49  
Old 01-12-2017, 10:30 AM
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To my memory -- which may be faulty; it's been quite some time -- the dungeon-like areas in Okami were really straightforward and linear and lacked interesting environmental gimmicks. In the first one, I was thinking "Okay, tutorial dungeon," but then the rest of them were even less complex.

Maybe it gets better later in the game. I wouldn't be able to deny it. Someday I'll finish that game without running out of steam partway through, and I'll be able to tell you.
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  #50  
Old 01-12-2017, 11:11 AM
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They're generally not too mazelike. Which means on the one hand that you don't generally have to worry about stuff like the fucking water temple or whatever but does mean that most of what goes on in them is puzzle-solving, finding treasure, beating enemies / bosses, and talking to whomever might be in a dungeon in order to try to get information / progress the action.

They definitely get more complex the more into the game you go. A lot of the early stuff that seems like dungeons really aren't, as far as I'd think of it with respect to Zelda. Stuff like the moon cave, sunken ship, and wawku shrine definitely counts, in my opinion, but the caves that just lead you to one of the spirit trees or whatever they were called are a bit less so -- they've got puzzles and maze-like stuff especially in the context of trying to get all the spirit beads, but are much simpler affairs without too much puzzling to do.

FWIW, Okamiden winds up having a more traditional Zelda dungeon-y structure.
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  #51  
Old 01-12-2017, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
TP Talk
Both TP and WW were very interesting stories wrapped in dull games, because Nintendo still hasn't learned how to properly pace a 3D Zelda game and until ALBW came out I thought they forgot how to pace 2D Zeldas as well.
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  #52  
Old 01-12-2017, 12:10 PM
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i've meant to come back to okami for a while, but i got stuck on a part not too far into the game (given how long i understand it to be) where i could obviously understand the concept of what i was supposed to do, but i couldn't figure out what fucking brush thing the game wanted me to perform, and every time i failed issun would tell me to do the thing i already knew what it was but couldn't figure out how

in retrospect i can't really understand how any of this happened but i'm pretty annoyed about it

bayonetta's a pretty good series but i'd take dmc3/4se any day; the soundtracks are definitely better (though i still kinda like devil may cry's haha)

god hand is fucking great and probably still my favorite. then revengeance
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  #53  
Old 01-12-2017, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muteKi View Post
They're generally not too mazelike. Which means on the one hand that you don't generally have to worry about stuff like the fucking water temple or whatever but does mean that most of what goes on in them is puzzle-solving, finding treasure, beating enemies / bosses, and talking to whomever might be in a dungeon in order to try to get information / progress the action.

They definitely get more complex the more into the game you go. A lot of the early stuff that seems like dungeons really aren't, as far as I'd think of it with respect to Zelda. Stuff like the moon cave, sunken ship, and wawku shrine definitely counts, in my opinion, but the caves that just lead you to one of the spirit trees or whatever they were called are a bit less so -- they've got puzzles and maze-like stuff especially in the context of trying to get all the spirit beads, but are much simpler affairs without too much puzzling to do.

FWIW, Okamiden winds up having a more traditional Zelda dungeon-y structure.
I'd even count the parts like where you're sneaking around Sei-An Castle with the shrinking power, which reminded me a lot of Wind Waker. I've never been an especially huge fan of maze style dungeons, but I do enjoy wide and varied types of dungeons and environments in which to engage with mechanics and Okami definitely brings that to the table. It's dungeons aren't any less linear than any post LTTP dungeon that isn't the Forest Temple IMO.

Also no one should play Okamiden ever. Do me this favor, please.
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  #54  
Old 01-12-2017, 01:30 PM
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Really? I thought it was generally pretty good, even if it was a lot stiffer in its controls for obvious reasons
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  #55  
Old 01-12-2017, 02:55 PM
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Some people here could do with revisiting the Moon Cave (Orochi's multi-floor fortress with a variety of environments and mini quests), the Sunken Ship (with its many puzzles), Oni Island (Ninetails' palace is HUGE and has lots of puzzle deathtraps), and Wawku Shrine (the Owls' icy tower and the biggest dungeon in the game).
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  #56  
Old 01-12-2017, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juca View Post
That's really not true about Twilight Princess.
Eh, I'm well aware there's more to it than that. I'm just saying that, even as someone who's never been fortunate enough to play the original Okami, it's understandable why people may prefer it to Twilight Princess.

Okami's got a colorful, beautiful world of Japanese wonders while Twilight Princess is basically just more 3D Zelda but with a new supporting cast and Link's got a wolf gimmick now.
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