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  #61  
Old 09-27-2013, 08:55 AM
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So I saw this thing.

THE BAD: I never really liked Joss Whedon-style dialogue because it just feels so weirdly unnatural. HACK GIRL was just awful, as were SCIENCE TWINS*. I also really don't like how ARM BUG DAD went from being totally sympathetic and cool to a freaked out Straw Man in like nothing flat. I mean yeah I get that he was all messed up on super junk but seriously Also ARM BUG was kind of silly.

THE GOOD: SECRET AGENT BRO was cool, as was PILOT THAT'S SICK OF YOUR SHIT. The fight scene in the beginning was just aces, I can never get enough of dudes beating the shit out of eachother in kitchens with whatever they can get their hands on. Even the super action bits at the end were fun. ARM BUG DAD was really great until he suddenly wasn't.

THE GREAT: Phil Coulson is just the best. THE BEST. The bit where he waits in the shadows just because he thinks it would be neat and the part where he just shoots SECRET AGENT BRO with truth serum for the hell of it and everything. It almost feels like he doesn't even belong in the show, he outshines everything else by so much. Also I guess he might have super reflexes now? That's rad.

*MAYBE THEY ARE REALLY SCIENCE FRIENDS? WITH BENEFITS? SCIENCE TWINS(CEST?!?!)!1

Last edited by BEAT; 09-27-2013 at 09:56 AM.
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  #62  
Old 09-27-2013, 09:01 AM
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Also why the fuck would you put your evil science superpowers device on the ARM?

No man

Put that shit on the SPINE

Also the CGI on the arm thing was way obvious and kind of awful. I cannot help but think this also would have been fixed if they put it on the spine. And maybe made it less orange.
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  #63  
Old 09-27-2013, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by BEAT View Post
PILOT THAT'S SICK OF YOUR SHIT
Yeah, she and Coulson are the best part. I want whole episodes that are just the two of them angrily solving ridiculous supercrimes.

Agent Coulson is basically what Captain Jack should have been in Torchwood.

Last edited by Sprite; 09-27-2013 at 09:17 AM.
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  #64  
Old 09-27-2013, 09:13 AM
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Overall I dug it but my expectations were fairly low to begin with.
It reminded me of this old show called Mutant X, which was basically an off-brand X-Men for TV. It didn't feel like it was related to the Marvel universe at all, until the flying car. That was Nick Fury as fuck.

Eagerly awaiting FALCON, the WINGED BLACK SUPERHERO

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  #65  
Old 09-27-2013, 09:17 AM
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In Fairness to Not Cage suddenly becoming evil, he was being pumped full of Mad Science for the entire episode. That would probably mess up ones sense of right and wrong over time.

Also; calling it now, Hacker Girls super power is going to be getting kidnapped a lot.
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  #66  
Old 09-27-2013, 09:19 AM
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I think I'd watch a show where a team of overworked and underpaid agents have to fight weird crimes while dealing with massive amounts of bureaucracy and their eccentric teammates.

That's not this show, is it?
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  #67  
Old 09-27-2013, 09:42 AM
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I just want another Misfits of Science, is that too much to ask for?

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  #68  
Old 09-27-2013, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprite View Post
Yeah, she and Coulson are the best part. I want whole episodes that are just the two of them angrily solving ridiculous supercrimes.
No no man. That's what's rad about Coulson. He doesn't GET angry.

Which is not to say that I don't want exactly what you said! I want the two of them just doing their jobs with her becoming more pissed at everything and him just becoming more serene which in turn makes her even madder because there's nothing a mad person hates more than a calm person.
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Originally Posted by MarsDragon View Post
I think I'd watch a show where a team of overworked and underpaid agents have to fight weird crimes while dealing with massive amounts of bureaucracy and their eccentric teammates.

That's not this show, is it?
It might be? I dunno, I'll tell you when I figure it out.
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  #69  
Old 09-27-2013, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Octopus Prime View Post
In Fairness to Not Cage suddenly becoming evil, he was being pumped full of Mad Science for the entire episode. That would probably mess up ones sense of right and wrong over time.
Yeah but it felt like he was doing great doing great doing great WHOOPS NOW I AM NUTS. I'm blaming this one on the writers because the actor was doing hella good right until then.
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Originally Posted by Octopus Prime View Post
Also; calling it now, Hacker Girls super power is going to be getting kidnapped a lot.
While I'm sure you're right, I would much rather hacker girl's secret power be missing the TOP SECRET PLANE and having to spend multiple episodes getting a cab to the non-top-secret airport and waiting for her flight back to wherever Shield HQ is through multiple delays.
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  #70  
Old 09-27-2013, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by BEAT View Post
Which is not to say that I don't want exactly what you said! I want the two of them just doing their jobs with her becoming more pissed at everything and him just becoming more serene which in turn makes her even madder because there's nothing a mad person hates more than a calm person.It might be? I dunno, I'll tell you when I figure it out.
That's pretty much what I meant, but I didn't word my desire correctly. They're perfect foils for one another.
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  #71  
Old 09-27-2013, 12:08 PM
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Finally got to see it. Enjoyed it well enough so far.

I did find the Centipede super-power mishmash project a little silly; seemed mostly like a ham-handed way to establish that we're in continuity with all the other Marvel movies. And the idea that one organization got their hands on like half a dozen of the most dangerous things on the planet and had them all in an unassuming downtown loft without it even being on SHIELD's radar sort of undermines the latter's reputation for being bad-ass at intel.

And I can report that even without being versed enough in Marvel to have any idea what an "LHM" or Vision is, it was pretty obvious that "Tahiti" was code for something like being saved by unknowingly getting transplanted into an android body, which evidently amounts to about the same thing.

I'm surprised the "pilot" isn't actually some Marvel bit character I didn't know about, but she's pretty cool regardless.

Oh, my only other complaint is that so far I'm not really sure why the ostensible team lead guy is on the show, since he was pretty much the least interesting character and didn't really do a whole lot outside of opening fisticuffs and occasionally providing a straight man for Phil. He kind of feels like "token handsome buff young white male", which is a bit weird.
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  #72  
Old 09-27-2013, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAT View Post
Also why the fuck would you put your evil science superpowers device on the ARM?

No man

Put that shit on the SPINE

Also the CGI on the arm thing was way obvious and kind of awful. I cannot help but think this also would have been fixed if they put it on the spine. And maybe made it less orange.
Easier to access the circulation on the inner arm and better protected. Also, what CGI? I thought that was makeup and a prop.
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  #73  
Old 09-27-2013, 12:37 PM
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I guess I didn't think much of the "all the superpowers" bracelet because that's exactly the kind of thing that would be done in the first issue of a new Marvel book to create tension and a sense of urgency. In the traditional Marvel fashion!!! I guess it bears repeating: live-action superheroics will always get the raw end of the deal because nerds will never be happy. They want an ultra-realistic gritty portrayal that stays completely true to the feel and characteristics of ridiculous comic books.
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  #74  
Old 09-27-2013, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang View Post
nerds will never be happy
We should get this embroidered on some samplers and small throw pillows, then retire young on our obscene riches derived from the sales
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  #75  
Old 09-27-2013, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by upupdowndown View Post
We should get this embroidered on some samplers and small throw pillows, then retire young on our obscene riches derived from the sales
we will set etsy on fire

Also, I'm glad they gave at least one new character initials that are the same letter.
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  #76  
Old 09-27-2013, 12:44 PM
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man, you're way too invested in this show, dude. it's just ep 1. maybe calm down a smidge?
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  #77  
Old 09-27-2013, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by shivam View Post
man, you're way too invested in this show, dude. it's just ep 1. maybe calm down a smidge?
I think you're mistaking my approval and enthusiasm for being overly-invested when compared to most of the other reactions in this thread that range from "meh" to "hated it". Worlds do not hang in the balance. Plus, dude, when am I not calling out nerds on their weird double standards?
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  #78  
Old 09-27-2013, 12:53 PM
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Plus, dude, when am I not calling out nerds on their weird double standards?
B-b-but shivam was calling you out on your weird double standard!
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  #79  
Old 09-27-2013, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang View Post
I think you're mistaking my approval and enthusiasm for being overly-invested when compared to most of the other reactions in this thread that range from "meh" to "hated it". Worlds do not hang in the balance. Plus, dude, when am I not calling out nerds on their weird double standards?
Well, presumably you have to sleep sometime.

Unless you also talk in your sleep. Just growlin' away "OH! Them Internet Nerds, GRRR" while making twisting motions in the air.
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  #80  
Old 09-27-2013, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Excitemike View Post
B-b-but shivam was calling you out on your weird double standard!
Right, except, I'm not exhibiting one

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Originally Posted by Octopus Prime View Post
Well, presumably you have to sleep sometime.

Unless you also talk in your sleep. Just growlin' away "OH! Them Internet Nerds, GRRR" while making twisting motions in the air.
do you know how much marital strife this causes
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  #81  
Old 09-27-2013, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang View Post
I think you're mistaking my approval and enthusiasm for being overly-invested when compared to most of the other reactions in this thread that range from "meh" to "hated it". Worlds do not hang in the balance. Plus, dude, when am I not calling out nerds on their weird double standards?
it just feels a little like you're trying to apply pressure to those of us who weren't completely on the whedon train to avengerville with you. You can voice approval of the show, and even critique the content of the mehs and hated its without getting down to broad, over generalized statements like 'nerds will never be happy'.

People have different tastes, and different expectations from their entertainment. And comics in particular have covered every flavor from bizarrely weird and hokey to grimdark mcbleedsalot. This, in turn, means that the fandom of this entertainment is ALSO from both ends of the spectrum, and every spot in between. That means that when a piece of media, be it film, tv show, graphic novel or game comes out, it finds a point on the spectrum and sticks there. These media don't have the flexibility to shift their tone to accomodate all fans, so it is inevitable that some portion of the fanbase will approve wholeheartedly while another segment will wonder why they're not being considered.

The problem arises when the fans, both in the zone covered, and in the zone outside, decide that their view is the only correct view, and those from different points on the spectrum are doing it wrong. And the content itself never explicitly says which point on the spectrum it is staking out, so as to attract the broadest audience possible. This means, inevitably, that some folks feel conned, and other folks are like, dude it was gonna be like this the whole time, are you stupid and blind.

There are exceptions to this! Bale-man, for instance, was grimdark from the getgo, while the original superman was campy fun. In this case, SHIELD was hyped as grim and realistic, and is actually campy campsalot, which is fine and fits the source material. The problem is that those fans who were hoping for something a little more serious, like say, Dark Angel or something, are left in the dust wondering what they just saw, and how it relates to what they were set up to expect.

So thus, the broad array of reactions to this show. Now, folks in the whimsy wheelhouse are totally cool with this show, because they had set their expectations for this kind of tone. Wolfie, I think you fit into this category. That's totally rad! it's great that this show has an audience of people who wanted this kind of content. But lashing out at people for not being on board because their expectations were misled isn't very pleasant for anyone.


And this goes for folks on both sides of the aisle. This show isn't grimdark. Get over it. You may not be the target audience. Get over that, too.
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  #82  
Old 09-27-2013, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang View Post
They want an ultra-realistic gritty portrayal that stays completely true to the feel and characteristics of ridiculous comic books.
That perfectly pinpoints the nail head-on on the bullseye and shows why those kinds of expectations, fundamentally contradictory, can never be satisfied.

This is a show where a MiB-type operative gets a fire engine-red, convertible, vanity sports car that flies. He even named it. It's a cool car. And it's cool that the guy got one. It's absolutely ridiculous and it's not even internally-consistent for a covert-ops guy to drive one but damn if it isn't awesome, and THAT's what counts. It appeals more to a "Gee whiz!" mentality than to "realism." "Realism" is what killed Heroes, and what killed Alphas, and what killed No Ordinary Family. These shows tried so hard to make superheroes "realistic" that, when confronted by the fantastic nature of the premise, they tried to appeal to that too and ended up tearing themselves apart.

If this show goes for "It just works," for the sake of characters and plot, then "Gee whiz" is the way to go. And as far as I know, any impression that the show would be "dark" went out the window in the very first previews when we heard Coulson admonish "Don't touch Lola."
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  #83  
Old 09-27-2013, 01:30 PM
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yeah, to be clear, the comic book elements and 'it just works' stuff didn't bother me at all. it was the characters, the dialog choices, and the delivery methods that got me. The scientists babbling over each other in incomprehensibly thick accents, the wide eyed and utterly annoying hacker, and pretty much everyone who wasn't coulson, the lady from how i met your mother, or the bus driving kung fu master.
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  #84  
Old 09-27-2013, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shivam View Post
yeah, to be clear, the comic book elements and 'it just works' stuff didn't bother me at all. it was the characters, the dialog choices, and the delivery methods that got me. The scientists babbling over each other in incomprehensibly thick accents, the wide eyed and utterly annoying hacker, and pretty much everyone who wasn't coulson, the lady from how i met your mother, or the bus driving kung fu master.
That's all a Joss Whedon thing. Coulson had the benefit of being a fully formed character before Whedon stepped into the universe and took control.
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  #85  
Old 09-27-2013, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
In this case, SHIELD was hyped as grim and realistic, and is actually campy campsalot, which is fine and fits the source material. The problem is that those fans who were hoping for something a little more serious, like say, Dark Angel or something, are left in the dust wondering what they just saw, and how it relates to what they were set up to expect.
This is a good point, and one I hadn't thought of. Though, at the prospect of sounding like I'm backpedaling, I hand't really paid attention to the way ABC was promoting the show. Mostly because I don't watch ABC, but also because I knew it was coming and was going to at least see the pilot. I think I glanced at a preview ad once and thought it was kind of bland (the preview, not the concept of the show).

That said, I can understand why what you're saying might be the case for people coming in to the franchise solely on the basis of SHIELD. The standpoint I was taking was one of insider knowledge - everyone here who watched the show has seen Avengers. I thought SHIELD stuck really closely to the feel of Avengers, especially in its dialogue, delivery, etc. If nothing else, Whedon and Co., I thought, nailed the feel of the movie in the show. I mean, having seen and enjoyed Avengers in particular and other Whedon shows in the past, I would think anyone going into SHIELD would know what to expect.

I will say that the dueling accents of the ScienTwins was a little hard to parse on occasion, though.
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  #86  
Old 09-27-2013, 02:23 PM
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Yeah, as someone who doesn't really read Marvel comics and who's main knowledge of the setting comes from the recent films, I had no problem with the general tone and dialog. I just thought the Centipede premise was a little silly even by the movies' plotting standards, but not so much so that it throws me out of the show or anything.
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  #87  
Old 09-27-2013, 02:41 PM
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I wrote out some reasoning for why I wasn't enamored with the pilot, but it can pretty much be summarized with this: my standards for TV pilots have changed from when I first watched Buffy, Angel, and Dollhouse. Firefly had an immediately interesting pilot so I know Joss has the chops to make that happen, but now I'm pretty spoiled from some of the extremely excellent TV shows I've watched since then.
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  #88  
Old 09-27-2013, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
PILOT THAT'S SICK OF YOUR SHIT
Initially I read this phrase as meaning the pilot episode itself was sick of your shit which positively intrigued me.
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  #89  
Old 09-27-2013, 02:54 PM
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Also, I'm glad they gave at least one new character initials that are the same letter.
because this got lost in the bullshit
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  #90  
Old 09-27-2013, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by 9inchsamurai View Post
I wrote out some reasoning for why I wasn't enamored with the pilot, but it can pretty much be summarized with this: my standards for TV pilots have changed from when I first watched Buffy, Angel, and Dollhouse. Firefly had an immediately interesting pilot so I know Joss has the chops to make that happen, but now I'm pretty spoiled from some of the extremely excellent TV shows I've watched since then.
I dunno man, most of my all-time favorite shows didn't grab me immediately with an amazing pilot. The first time I watched The Wire I barely understood what any of the characters were even saying. Breaking Bad pulled a Coen Brothers/Tarantino thing with me where the tone and direction was so not at all what I expected that I had to wait for the initial confusion to wear off to let the good stuff settle in. As stated Firefly is the only Joss Whedon show (and I love all Joss Whedon's shows) that had a simply phenomenal pilot.

The best most of them hit with the first episode is "that's interesting and I'd like to see more" which is of course the goal.
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