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  #1051  
Old 09-19-2015, 08:12 AM
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Man I got little use out of the lob. Much rather jump up to meet enemies.
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  #1052  
Old 09-19-2015, 08:16 AM
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I love the lob. Long live the lob life.

Also it might be a little easier on 3DS where you can touch to change without opening a menu.
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  #1053  
Old 09-19-2015, 08:19 AM
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Personally I found Float to be more than adequate for basic go-forward shot needs, especially if combined with a Short or Remote Fuse that meant you wasted little time if your shot went up to space.
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  #1054  
Old 09-19-2015, 08:21 AM
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I've been switching between Lob and Bounce a lot, but I'm playing on 3DS, so it's really easy to switch between things quickly. Also, you don't need Lob as much when you've got the arcana that does an uppercut strike.

I think the reason I prefer Plague's control's to Shovel's is the looseness. For Shovel Knight, making big jumps was about precisely bouncing on something. For Plague, it's about blasting through the air and the course correcting slightly, which I find easier and more satisfying.
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  #1055  
Old 09-19-2015, 08:34 AM
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I was rooting for Treasure Knight for one of the playables during the kickstarter, and now I'm curious to how his plauding and grapple movement would play out.
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  #1056  
Old 09-19-2015, 08:46 AM
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Presumably we'll still see move-sets for each of the Knights because of the Battle Mode, right?

Personally, I'm really excited to teleport around as Spectre Knight.

EDIT: Something I just remembered too was that the plan for Plague Knight was originally for him to make bombs out of components found in levels. I'm really glad they just went for the Cipher Coins instead - collecting a bunch of random crap would have been annoying.
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  #1057  
Old 09-19-2015, 08:59 AM
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Yeah Battle Mode is still a thing, even if it'll be a ways off. But if they can make Plague of Shadows as good as it is, I've no doubts that Battle Mode will be just as good.
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  #1058  
Old 09-19-2015, 09:27 PM
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Beat this. It's spectacular. Will go into more details when company leaves and not on Wii U.
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  #1059  
Old 09-20-2015, 12:57 PM
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Played a bit more of Plague of Shadows - alternating with the vanilla game to remember well where the hidden stuff was. I'll second what everyone's been saying about the Shovel Knight fight, which is great.

Also, is it just me, or is Reize easier to beat as Plague Knight?
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  #1060  
Old 09-20-2015, 01:12 PM
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Pretty much all bosses are easier to beat as Plague, I've found, because you can jump and spike bombs on them rapidly, as opposed to playing shovel pogo.
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  #1061  
Old 09-20-2015, 01:24 PM
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Plus Cluster Bombs ar crazy-powerful and far easier to use than the Dynomail
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  #1062  
Old 09-20-2015, 02:49 PM
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Just tried out Plague Knight. I actually like playing as him a TON more than Shovel Knight. I like platformers where you have ranged attacks more than melee attacks, and Plague Knight gives me just that. And with all the burst moves, you have more options for movement, which is nice because Shovel Knight felt a little stiff to me.

I wish they had made the burst and/or magic a separate button because I feel like it would just be less confusing. I mean, sure, I get it...they wanted to stick to two buttons because the NES had two buttons. And that's fine but I think it just makes things more confusing than it needs to be. Still, when you're jumping around and throwing bombs at people, it's pretty fun. I've already come up with some clever ways to use potions to deal with problems and I'm sure there'll be more of that as the game goes on.

It's also interesting to see how certain things that were simple to do as Shovel are now difficult, and vice versa.
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  #1063  
Old 09-20-2015, 02:57 PM
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I think it's because bomb throwing is also part of your air mobility -- if you could charge the burst while stalling by throwing bombs, you could basically have unlimited burst jumps. As it is, there's a bit more trade-off between offense and mobility, which is good because Plague Knight is basically overpowered as it is right now.
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  #1064  
Old 09-20-2015, 03:29 PM
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Alix, you can remap the controls if you want. I've got Arcana on L and attack on R and Y so that I can attack while charging burst.
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  #1065  
Old 09-20-2015, 03:50 PM
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Note that to assign two buttons the same function in the options menu, you have to press the first button you want and then the second button you want in quick succession - not at the same time, and not giving it a second between presses. It took me a while to figure it out last night, but once I was able to hold a burst charge and attack at the same time things got a lot simpler.
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  #1066  
Old 09-20-2015, 06:25 PM
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Okay reassigning magic to a button feels a lot better. I didn't try having two attack buttons like y'all are saying but I probably will later. I fought Shovel Knight and that whole bit was super adorable.
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  #1067  
Old 09-20-2015, 06:39 PM
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Shovel Knight cheats. How is he only in the Explodatarium but has the War Horn. Huh? HUH!?!?
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  #1068  
Old 09-20-2015, 06:41 PM
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Clearly he's playing NG+. You're supposed to beat the game before playing Plague of Shadows, after all.
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  #1069  
Old 09-20-2015, 06:42 PM
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More importantly, how does Shovel Knight have the tools you found and traded to Ches--oh. Ohhhhhhhhhhhh.

(I wonder if he'd have tools you found but didn't trade to Chester?)
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  #1070  
Old 09-20-2015, 06:44 PM
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A cool detail:

One of the masks in Plague Knight's room is significantly larger than the others. I think this is probably a reference to his boss sprite.
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  #1071  
Old 09-20-2015, 06:47 PM
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What do you mean?
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  #1072  
Old 09-20-2015, 07:22 PM
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Well, finished it all off, with all the Cipher Coins and music sheets and whatnot.

Honestly, it was a great excuse to revisit the game. This was my favorite game from last year. It's actually pretty surprising how much it changes things with Plague Knight. I liked the new areas, and I found taking down most of the bosses pretty cathartic, given that he's a wrecking crew in most instances.

So, I think I ended up leaning mostly on the normal casing, the shocking one, and the impact fuse. There were times where I swapped out, but those bolts end up pretty powerful, and being able to toss so many like that is pretty nice as well.

So, does it change anything with the ending if you get 100%? Debating whether I want to bother with it right now...
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  #1073  
Old 09-20-2015, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki View Post
What do you mean?
His original sprite is different from the playable sprite:



His bedroom is hidden above his boss room in the Explodatorium. If you hit the cabinet on the right side, you find a bunch of masks. One of them is significantly larger than the others.
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  #1074  
Old 09-20-2015, 07:41 PM
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Yeah I found that, I didn't know the sprite was different though. I guess it's sort of obvious. :\
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  #1075  
Old 09-20-2015, 08:49 PM
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Default Quote is for Shovel Knight, not the new expansion

Quote:
I think the main thing that annoys me is the concept that your main weapon is a shovel. Well, first I need to explain how the challenge works. You have a high chance of leaving yourself vulnerable when you try to directly engage with enemies. You have to get up close to get a hit in but not too close that you actually collide with the enemy. When you successfully hit, most likely you are pushed back and have to reposition yourself closer again to get in another hit, and by then the enemy has a chance to get his attacks started. Bouncing works better than the main attack, and some enemies back away so that when you land, you don't hit them and they get to directly attack you.

So if the game works well with the main mechanics provided (and it really does), then why is the combat annoying? Remember, you are expected to take hits to actually get a hit on enemies and bosses, and in two ways. Getting close to the enemy requires chasing them and dodging their attacks, and also with the way they move around you are bound to collide with them UNLESS you get a hit in before that happens. When you hit an enemy, you are most of the time temporarily saved from being hurt by physical collision. So yes, it's a challenge due to the way the rules are set up, but it is not a satisfying challenge. Every engagement with foes is an awkward engagement.

It's interesting what they achieved here. They simplified the complexity of combat scenarios (simple pattern exploits and simple moveset) so that everyone can figure out how to beat it, and at the same time they set up the rules in such a way so that everyone feels like they are struggling against the enemies. Of course, they didn't stop there. There is a constant attempt at giving rewarding feedback to the player, treasure being a main one. Also secrets to get more treasure. Consistent aesthetics and attention to detail all under a limited scope, alongside numerous obvious references to older games via aesthetics AND mechanics, so entertainment through nostalgia is far better achieved than many other attempts. But at it's core am I actually enjoying the combat? No, because in reality I was only enjoying everything that surrounded the combat which cleverly disguised the farce of struggle.
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  #1076  
Old 09-20-2015, 09:42 PM
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Downloaded this yesterday and gave the intro stage a spin.

I'm really surprised at how unconventional Plague Knight is. It'll take some getting used to but I have a feeling when this one clicks it'll click really hard.
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  #1077  
Old 09-20-2015, 09:55 PM
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Just got to town. I'm already loving how much effort they put into this mode.
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  #1078  
Old 09-20-2015, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trar View Post
postmodern analysis of Shovel Knight combat
what is the best post
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  #1079  
Old 09-20-2015, 11:02 PM
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I think I like Plague of Shadows roughly 1000000000% more than I liked the main game.
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  #1080  
Old 09-21-2015, 12:19 AM
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Plague of Shadows is ridiculously good for a free DLC. I can think of nothing that compares. It's so good that I would have gladly paid money for it, and that almost never happens with DLC. I will most certainly pay for any sequel set in the Shovelverse.


I wonder what they will do with King Knight. His moveset doesn't seem to be *that* different from Shovel Knight's (at least based on the boss fight), but Plague of Shadows sets a high bar to clear with its bomb-based approach.
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