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View Poll Results: Just how much fuckery should we subject the game to?
Routing changes and/or combat changes (diff enemies, spells, AI, etc) 13 76.47%
Go all in and potentially add new dungeons with brand new content 4 23.53%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

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  #31  
Old 09-18-2017, 02:57 PM
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Put something incredibly important in the chest on floor 5 of the volcano, guarded by the Dragon.

He'll NEVER find it there.
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  #32  
Old 09-18-2017, 03:02 PM
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Fill all the chests without anything good in them with gloves. So you have to go into the menu to throw them away every time.
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  #33  
Old 09-18-2017, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solitayre View Post
Put something incredibly important in the chest on floor 5 of the volcano, guarded by the Dragon.

He'll NEVER find it there.
The BOTTLE.
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  #34  
Old 09-18-2017, 03:10 PM
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Jokes that potentially make the game unwinnable should not be implemented. Jokes where you can't see the punchline by playing are also bad choices. We need to think about this not only in terms of whether this would cause suffering, but also whether that suffering would be amusing.
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  #35  
Old 09-18-2017, 03:17 PM
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Replace LIT2 with BRAK in Elfland. I've learned from Rando that BRAK is actually a really good spell if you get it in the early game on a low level charge.

Replace FIR2 with HRM2, because they can't all be winners.
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  #36  
Old 09-18-2017, 03:34 PM
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Heal Staff casts LIT2 on the party, Zeus Gauntlets cast HEAL on the enemies.
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  #37  
Old 09-18-2017, 03:39 PM
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Rename the classes as "Thiefer" "B.Thief" "W.Thief" "R.Thief" "Th.Belt" and "Rogue" - edit the sprite graphics accordingly.
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  #38  
Old 09-18-2017, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bongo Bill View Post
Rename the classes as "Thiefer" "B.Thief" "W.Thief" "R.Thief" "Th.Belt" and "Rogue" - edit the sprite graphics accordingly.
I approve of this greatly.
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  #39  
Old 09-18-2017, 04:38 PM
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Bahamut promotes all classes to Thief.
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  #40  
Old 09-18-2017, 04:40 PM
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Some of these proposals imply a need to include a "keep savestates" warning somewhere.
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  #41  
Old 09-18-2017, 04:43 PM
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Yeah. Basically, I'm not gonna do anything that implies or requires a "keep savestates" warning. Savestates are for communists, and games that require them are made by communists. I ain't no goddamn commie.

Spiked squares in Corneria Castle amuses me, though~
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  #42  
Old 09-18-2017, 04:55 PM
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I don't think the goal is to make something actively unfun or that sabotages the player, just something that trolls Brickroad in particular.

He's played the game a dozen times in LPs here or on his Stream so those who follow him know a lot of particular beats to his runs.

-Once he has the ship he usually farms KYZOKUs to get money or until his mage is high enough level to cast FIR2 or LIT2, to clear the Marsh Cave.
(Proposal: shift the encounter list so he can't get KYZOKUs and make the boss of the Marsh Cave weak to something else)

-He usually ignores the volcano completely until the very end of the game. (solution: Put useful gear or important plot items in the volcano, obliging him to actually go there.)

-He usually throws himself at the Ice Cave as soon as it is available until he gets lucky and clears it. (solution: Oblige him to fight something ghastly like a Frost D as soon as he walks in)

Things like that.

Last edited by Solitayre; 09-30-2017 at 12:31 PM.
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  #43  
Old 09-18-2017, 05:01 PM
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Assuming we make the rest of the game awful and mess with the routing, what if we just remove all encounters from the Ice Cave? Like he's dreading it and prepping and building up his team and then he just walks in and it's nothing but the Eye.

Bonus points if anyone figures out how to hack in the JP eye art and we could come up with some sweet beholder attacks...
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  #44  
Old 09-18-2017, 05:02 PM
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Is there a destination that he usually skips? Have the Bottle for sale there.
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  #45  
Old 09-18-2017, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bongo Bill View Post
Is there a destination that he usually skips? Have the Bottle for sale there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solitayre View Post
Put something incredibly important in the chest on floor 5 of the volcano, guarded by the Dragon.

He'll NEVER find it there.

Last edited by aturtledoesbite; 09-18-2017 at 05:07 PM. Reason: this one's really good because it makes him have to run the volcano before kraken/tiamat
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  #46  
Old 09-18-2017, 05:10 PM
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If he's been watching Rando (and he has) he'll likely look in all the easy to get to chests.

The best place to hide something is in the Titan cave. Give him the floater so he can skip it, put RUBY and BOTTLE in those treasure boxes.
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  #47  
Old 09-18-2017, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destil View Post
Assuming we make the rest of the game awful and mess with the routing, what if we just remove all encounters from the Ice Cave? Like he's dreading it and prepping and building up his team and then he just walks in and it's nothing but the Eye
This is good.
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  #48  
Old 09-18-2017, 05:14 PM
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Meanwhile, the shop in the caravan sells Pure potions.

Pure potions now cost 1500GP. You can buy the spell Heal for 75GP.
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  #49  
Old 09-18-2017, 05:18 PM
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B.Thiefs learn white magic and W.Thiefs learn black magic.
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  #50  
Old 09-18-2017, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bongo Bill View Post
Meanwhile, the shop in the caravan sells Pure potions.

Pure potions now cost 1500GP. You can buy the spell Heal for 75GP.
Note that once you have the bottle or release the fairy the caravan shop is gone forever.
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  #51  
Old 09-18-2017, 06:20 PM
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So, to both elaborate and summarize Brick's traditional route:
  • The first thing you do in Final Fantasy is go kill Garland. So let's do that.
  • Garland is ded; warped to Coneria Castle for Lute and bridge
  • Go kick the Pirates' collective asses and hijack the ship
  • Go to Elfland, raid the Marsh Cave for the Crown, with possible farming if party composition requires it
  • Beat up Astos, hope you don't get RUBed repeatedly, and take his Crystal
  • Give Crystal to Matoya for Herb
  • Exchange Herb for Key at Elfland
  • Loot Key-locked chests in Fiends' Temple, Coneria, and Dwarf Cave. Get TNT, leave Newbie Sea
  • Go to Melmond, kill Vampire, acquire Ruby
  • Go to Titan's Cave, exchange Ruby for Rod
  • Return to Earth Cave, use Rod to access and then brutally murder Lich
  • Go to Crescent Lake; having brutally murdered Lich, get rewarded with Canoe
  • Use Canoe to access Castle of Ordeals, run from everything except the ZombieDs, get Zeus Gauntlet, Heal Staff, and Tail
  • Go to Ice Cave and wipe 9001 times before eventually retrieving the Floater.
  • Use Floater to acquire Airship, then use Airship to change classes at Bahamut.
  • Go buy Bottle and use in Gaia to get Oxyale. With Oxyale in hand, loot the Mermaid Hut in the Sea Shrine for fat stacks of cash.
  • Go do the Waterfall dungeon eventually because you need a Cube
  • Take Slab to Melmond, learn Leifenish
  • Go to Leifen, get Chime
  • Go to Mirage Tower and loot like crazy, then move on to Floating Castle
  • Get Bane Sword, use to kill Tiamat
  • Go back to the Sea Shrine and kill Kraken
  • Finally go to the Volcano and kill Kary in like, two hits
  • Get ye ass back to Temple of the Fiends: Gas D edition, and struggle down through the Fiend Sequels.
  • OH MY GOD IT'S GARLAND something something time travel, kill Chaos, win game
  • OPTIONAL: Take Masamune and exit dungeon, then go kill a WarMECH.

Already there's plenty of potential for routing fuckery here, but let's look and break it down logically. There are a given number of 'gates' that we have access to, which we can use to lock off various parts of the overworld. We can have as many dungeons as we want, more or less, but there are 13 distinct phases of overworld exploration, defined by how much access you have:
  • Bridge complete
  • Ship obtained
  • TNT obtained and Newbie Canal created
  • Lich Defeated and Canoe obtained (note that an NPC gives you the Canoe directly, but only after Lich's demise)
  • Airship Obtained

Wait, what gives? That's only five stages--well, six if you count the initial, empty inventory, shirt-on-my-back stage. Where are the rest? Well, the other items aren't useful outside of caves and dungeons:
  • Lute Obtained (in vanilla, breaks tomb behind the Phantom in TOF II)
  • Crown Obtained (in vanilla, accesses Castle of Ordeals and allows you to fight Astos)
  • Mystic Key Obtained (in vanilla, opens that one stupid locked door in TOF II)
  • Ruby Obtained (in vanilla, removes the Titan in Titan's Cave)
  • Rod Obtained (in vanilla, breaks tomb behind the Vampire in Earth Cave)
  • Oxyale Obtained (in vanilla, grants access to the Sea Shrine)
  • Chime Obtained (in vanilla, grants access to Mirage Tower)
  • Cube Obtained (in vanilla, enables use of Floating Castle teleporter behind the Blue Dragon)

There are also some key items that don't actually have any effective function on their own, but exist as part of fetch chains. The chains are:
  • Crown -> Crystal -> Herb -> Key
  • Key -> TNT *
  • Bottle -> Oxyale
  • Floater -> Airship
  • Slab -> Leifenish Language -> Chime

Huh. TNT shouldn't have shown up in that list, should it? Well, yes and no. Obviously, the TNT has an actual function. But in Vanilla, the only barrier to entry is the Mystic Key. The TNT itself isn't locked behind anything innately, which is why I included it in the first list. To summarize, we have three tiers of barriers: Overworld barriers, Dungeon/NPC barriers, and a third category that doesn't have a great intuitive name. Fetch Quest barriers? Minor barriers? Backtrack enablers? Whatever.

I guess technically there's one other special case: you have to have killed all four fiends before you can get into the Temple of Fiends II. But you knew that already.

Last edited by LaularuKyrumo; 09-18-2017 at 08:03 PM.
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  #52  
Old 09-18-2017, 06:32 PM
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Brick didn't use these exact words, but he did ask for no Kaizo bullshit - so we definitely want to avoid things that need, like, save states, or are just misery for the sake of misery.

That said:
Floater in the Volcano, Kary in Ice Cave? Y/N? Kary could be past the Eye, even, guarding the exit.

I feel like no exits to any dungeons would get old quick, but the ruined Temple of Fiends should absolutely not have an exit - you get warped out once by the Princess anyway, so if Brick doesn't notice the lack of exit, that's his own fault.

What about a WarMech spike somewhere it definitely shouldn't be, but isn't mandatory? Maybe in front of one of the treasure boxes in Corneria Castle? That way, we're not only providing a troll, but also a service: A place Brick can fight WarMech on-demand. If it's in front of a chest, the chest should absolutely hold 1 gp.
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  #53  
Old 09-18-2017, 06:33 PM
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I don't know FF1 well enough to participate in this, but I'm loving some of the ideas.

One thing I'd like to suggest, if you guys want to "require" classes, then figure out a way to lock him into them. I'm totally down with forcing him to take a thief and a white mage, but don't make it so he has to start a game, realize he needs those classes, and then restart. That is less "troll" and more just annoying. But having the game say "LOL, here's your party" or even better "pick two characters and you have these other guys" would be funny.
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  #54  
Old 09-18-2017, 06:40 PM
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So having read that, here are some stuff off the top of my head:

The Rune Sword is renamed Masmune, but has no other changes in stats. Masmune can still be found in the Revisited Temple, but is also still just the renamed Rune Sword.

I still want the Warmech spike in front of the Masmune chest in the Revisited Temple.

Floater in the Volcano: Y

Kary in Ice Cave: N. Put her in the Castle of Ordeals, in place of the Zombie Dragon.

Yes to no teleport after fighting Garland.
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  #55  
Old 09-18-2017, 06:44 PM
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Hey guys, remember how Dawn of Souls doubles the HP of literally every boss?

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  #56  
Old 09-18-2017, 06:52 PM
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Laula's post up there gives some interesting food for thought.

By moving the location of items like the canoe, the Oxyale, and the Cube, we could reroute him the other direction through the world and 'force' him to fight the fiends out of order. for example, if the Rod is hidden in some god-forsaken corner of the world, you could have him fight Lich last.
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  #57  
Old 09-18-2017, 06:58 PM
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Example:

The canoe is all that is needed ot reach the Volcano, so make Kary the first Fiend.

Inside the volcano is the Cube, needed to reach the Flying Castle. Make Tiamat the second fiend.

inside the flying Castle is the Oxyale, needed to reach the Undersea shrine. Make Kraken the third fiend. Hidden in the Sunken Shrine is the rod, needed to reach Lich.

For extra lulz, make him clear the first half of the Earth Cave very early in the game and he doesn't come back for Lich until the very end.
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  #58  
Old 09-18-2017, 07:01 PM
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I think it's fine to put key items in places they shouldn't be, but we should make sure they're in places that Brick would think to check anyway. He's presumably going to stream this, and we want a fun stream, not a "Brick checks every treasure chest while fuming mad" stream.

EDIT: This was not a response to your post, Solitayre, just a coincidence.
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  #59  
Old 09-18-2017, 07:02 PM
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How about you can simply tal to the dwarf and get access to the entire ocean without having to find TNT. But leave the crown to herb to magic key path in, replace the TNT in Corneria with cloth armor.
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  #60  
Old 09-18-2017, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solitayre View Post
For extra lulz, make him clear the first half of the Earth Cave very early in the game and he doesn't come back for Lich until the very end.
Could probably play the Earth Cave straight up until you talk to the sage, who now gives you the CANOE instead of the ROD.

Quote:
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How about you can simply tal to the dwarf and get access to the entire ocean without having to find TNT. But leave the crown to herb to magic key path in, replace the TNT in Corneria with cloth armor.
YES.
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