The Return of Talking Time

Go Back   The Return of Talking Time > Talking about other things > The Pit of Civility

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 03-31-2010, 02:36 PM
Falselogic's Avatar
Falselogic Falselogic is offline
Threadcromantosaurus Rex
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: California
Posts: 29,369
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SayWhatNow View Post
So where does taxing a vice come into this? Taxing what is essentially freedom of choice. It seems ironic that the much despised cigarette smokers support failing fiscal policies through the addition of millions of dollars into state budgets. The government could not afford everyone quitting!

Is this "get it while it's good" approach towards taxing a vice proper? Alcohol could almost as easily be vilified on the same grounds. All beer drinkers could be facing usage restrictions and over-taxation using similar logic. Would we support that? This may be starting down another rabbit hole...
Booze is taxed here in CA, I imagine its taxed in every other state as well, though it isn't anywhere near the level of cigarettes. A increase in the tax has been proposed a number of times but each time lobbyists for the alcohol industries as well as public outrage has killed it.

The only reason that is the case is because booze hasn't been given the PR treatment that cigarettes have been getting for the last 20+ years
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 03-31-2010, 02:55 PM
Adam's Avatar
Adam Adam is offline
the :motion: stands
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: CA
Posts: 7,375
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SayWhatNow View Post
So where does taxing a vice come into this? Taxing what is essentially freedom of choice. It seems ironic that the much despised cigarette smokers support failing fiscal policies through the addition of millions of dollars into state budgets. The government could not afford everyone quitting!
Big Tobacco's best trick ever was getting the government addicted to cigarettes.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 03-31-2010, 03:05 PM
Sarcasmorator's Avatar
Sarcasmorator Sarcasmorator is offline
Space dad
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 15,464
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Big Tobacco's best trick ever was getting the government addicted to cigarettes.
Which it did largely by supplying them in every ration for every American soldier in World War II, if I recall correctly.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 03-31-2010, 03:11 PM
Brickroad's Avatar
Brickroad Brickroad is offline
Lv. 7 lawful woods faffer
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 24,608
Default

IIT Alix continues preaching about free will while at the same time telling people what they should/shouldn't do/say.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 03-31-2010, 03:15 PM
djSyndrome's Avatar
djSyndrome djSyndrome is offline
Thanatos feeding time
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 12,607
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by falselogic View Post
Booze is taxed here in CA, I imagine its taxed in every other state as well, though it isn't anywhere near the level of cigarettes. A increase in the tax has been proposed a number of times but each time lobbyists for the alcohol industries as well as public outrage has killed it.

The only reason that is the case is because booze hasn't been given the PR treatment that cigarettes have been getting for the last 20+ years
Didn't five cents per drink just get killed in committee?
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 03-31-2010, 03:15 PM
cool onion's Avatar
cool onion cool onion is offline
you can't win them all
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 603
Default

i think it's kind of funny that this whole thing started because somebody told somebody else who had already mentioned trying to cut back on/quit smoking that they should, in fact, cut back on/quit smoking
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 03-31-2010, 03:18 PM
Falselogic's Avatar
Falselogic Falselogic is offline
Threadcromantosaurus Rex
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: California
Posts: 29,369
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by djSyndrome View Post
Didn't five cents per drink just get killed in committee?
It certainly did!
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 03-31-2010, 03:21 PM
Alixsar's Avatar
Alixsar Alixsar is offline
The Shogun of Harlem
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Harlem
Posts: 23,644
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brickroad View Post
IIT Alix continues preaching about free will while at the same time telling people what they should/shouldn't do/say.
ITT Brickroad continues to go "lol Alixsar"

And yes I'm aware of the irony, but I've already drawn up why I think it's okay in one instance and not in the other so...you know. Not gonna get into that again.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 03-31-2010, 03:46 PM
Zarathustra Zarathustra is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
Posts: 2,435
Default

Sometimes i rape people, but that's more of an idle habit than a true vice for me; If the mise-en-scène presents accessible but assuredly-unwilling human orifices, I often follow the inclination to forcefully lean my turgid member into them, but i'd never, like, plan ahead for it.

Of course, given my particular charms/dimensions/vigor/je ne sais quoi, "methinks thou doth protest too much" has served well as the whole of my law. There's a reason i'm not in prison! /wink
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 03-31-2010, 04:21 PM
dtsund's Avatar
dtsund dtsund is offline
Set phasers to hug
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,989
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Big Tobacco's best trick ever was getting the government addicted to cigarettes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcasmorator View Post
Which it did largely by supplying them in every ration for every American soldier in World War II, if I recall correctly.
I thought Adam was obliquely referring to the big tobacco settlement and how the money's being used. Summary: Big Tobacco agreed to pay USGOVERMENT (well, the states, actually, I just wanted to say that) forever and ever so that they'd never be tried in criminal suits again. As I recall, the money was supposed to be used for anti-smoking campaigns and stuff like that. Some of the states decided they'd rather take a lot of the money now instead of perhaps getting it later, and sold bonds against the future payments. Upshot: they now have a decided incentive to make sure Big Tobacco's fortunes remain good, so they can get the money they need to pay off the bonds.

If you think this is retarded, congratulations! You are a functioning human being.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 03-31-2010, 04:37 PM
Sarcasmorator's Avatar
Sarcasmorator Sarcasmorator is offline
Space dad
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 15,464
Default

Ah, thought he was referring to the high tax rate on tobacco products in general.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 03-31-2010, 04:39 PM
dtsund's Avatar
dtsund dtsund is offline
Set phasers to hug
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,989
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcasmorator View Post
Ah, thought he was referring to the high tax rate on tobacco products in general.
That too, possibly. I just liked that story as well.

For a given value of 'like', of course.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 03-31-2010, 04:39 PM
Red Hedgehog's Avatar
Red Hedgehog Red Hedgehog is offline
For blood and gold
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 14,393
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alixsar View Post
ITT Brickroad continues to go "lol Alixsar"

And yes I'm aware of the irony, but I've already drawn up why I think it's okay in one instance and not in the other so...you know. Not gonna get into that again.
Hypocrisy, not irony, but yeah.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 03-31-2010, 04:51 PM
Adam's Avatar
Adam Adam is offline
the :motion: stands
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: CA
Posts: 7,375
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcasmorator View Post
Ah, thought he was referring to the high tax rate on tobacco products in general.
That's the one. Of course, as has been mentioned already, BT is apparently several steps ahead of my armchair criticism.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 03-31-2010, 05:11 PM
ThricebornPhoenix ThricebornPhoenix is offline
mellow dramatic
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,338
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by falselogic View Post
I know several people who smoke but aren't addicted. I smoke but am not addicted.
That's great, seriously. I admire your restraint. Around here, though, the casual smoker is not so much a rarity as a myth. (Casual drinkers aren't much more common.)

My most obvious vice, I think, is coffee. I often consume more coffee than food in a day, though partly because I tend to forget to eat. That's probably unhealthy. Coffee tastes better than food, anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 03-31-2010, 05:19 PM
Alixsar's Avatar
Alixsar Alixsar is offline
The Shogun of Harlem
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Harlem
Posts: 23,644
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Hedgehog View Post
Hypocrisy, not irony, but yeah.
What's the difference?! *bah-dum-pssh*
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 03-31-2010, 05:29 PM
Zodar's Avatar
Zodar Zodar is offline
twinkling photon
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: It's all in the numbers.
Posts: 7,368
Default

they sell these awful ramen-in-a-cup deals at school. obviously horrible for you, but only 50 cents compared to the rest of the ridiculously overpriced menu. when i don't have time to leave and grab some real food (almost always), those are some valuable carbohydrates.

i can't wait to go to college and go to a cafeteria that sells actual food
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 03-31-2010, 05:30 PM
DemoWeasel's Avatar
DemoWeasel DemoWeasel is offline
23 ski-dook
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Southern California
Posts: 10,285
Default

Lucky Zodar! LCAD has no cafeteria.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 03-31-2010, 06:11 PM
Brickroad's Avatar
Brickroad Brickroad is offline
Lv. 7 lawful woods faffer
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 24,608
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alixsar View Post
What's the difference?! *bah-dum-pssh*
Alanis didn't write a song about hypocricy.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 03-31-2010, 06:25 PM
Falselogic's Avatar
Falselogic Falselogic is offline
Threadcromantosaurus Rex
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: California
Posts: 29,369
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brickroad View Post
Alanis didn't write a song about hypocricy.
She didn't really write one about Irony either...

Zing!
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 03-31-2010, 06:26 PM
Brickroad's Avatar
Brickroad Brickroad is offline
Lv. 7 lawful woods faffer
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 24,608
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by falselogic View Post
She didn't really write one about Irony either...

Zing!
Who woulda thought? It figures.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 03-31-2010, 07:10 PM
Epithet's Avatar
Epithet Epithet is offline
EARTH FOREVER
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,125
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zodar View Post
they sell these awful ramen-in-a-cup deals at school. obviously horrible for you, but only 50 cents compared to the rest of the ridiculously overpriced menu. when i don't have time to leave and grab some real food (almost always), those are some valuable carbohydrates.
At least cafeterias that serve unhealthy-but-almost-palatable junk food are better than cafeterias that sell stuff that's HORRIBLY INEDIBLE and bad for you. All the school cafeterias I've seen have menus consisting entirely of rewarmed plastic.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 03-31-2010, 11:23 PM
Destil's Avatar
Destil Destil is online now
TARANTUL
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 20,561
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by taidan View Post
Depending on where you are, alcohol taxes aren't going anywhere. To relate to my last post, Maryland's super low alcohol taxes are nearly impervious to change.
Yeah, back when I lived in PA people would often drive down to buy booze in quantity. They actually ended up increasing the amount you could bring across the state line for 'personal use' at some point.

Of course, PA has the most ridiculously puritanical liquor laws of anywhere I've lived... imagine my shock of moving and seeing it in grocery stores / corner stores (only 'State Stores' back home) or for sale on Sunday.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 04-01-2010, 04:29 AM
Makkara's Avatar
Makkara Makkara is offline
Shall we praise the sun?
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Posts: 7,338
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alixsar View Post
Look, if you're grossly overweight, how did you get there? You made bad decisions and compounded them with worse ones. Not only did you eat poorly but you chose not to exercise and you let it spiral out of control until you were a billion pounds. You can't take care of yourself and you make bad choices. Plain and simple.

It's easy for people to make excuses and avoid facing it. "Oh it's okay for me to be fat! Alex is just a jerk!" Well sure, I am a jerk...but that doesn't change things. If you're 400 lbs., it's because you make bad choices.

But if someone makes that decision, and it doesn't affect anyone else, who are we to question them on it?
Well, I'm glad we cleared that up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by falselogic View Post
I know several people who smoke but aren't addicted. I smoke but am not addicted.
I know several people who smoke but think or used to think they aren't addicted. Trying to quit usually kills that delusion. Maybe the creatures you speak of exist, but I've never seen one.


On taxation: Finland lowered their alcohol tax a few years ago, by as much as 44% on hard liquors. Drinking increased significantly, health declined, people died. They realized their mistake and have started increasing the tax step by step. Hopefully they will serve as an example when the alcohol lobby starts its next offensive in my country.

I did enjoy going across the border to pick up cheap booze, though.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 04-01-2010, 06:12 AM
NevznachaY's Avatar
NevznachaY NevznachaY is offline
the STALIN BUS is coming
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: and everybody's jumping
Posts: 999
Default

Ah, smoking. Aka The Thing EVERY Russian 15-Year-Old Does.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 04-01-2010, 06:43 AM
Marfy Marfy is offline
nobody in particular
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,256
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NevznachaY View Post
Ah, smoking. Aka The Thing EVERY Russian 15-Year-Old Does.
Same here in Scotland. Anyone who thinks that higher prices and scary marketing will deter smoking hasn't been to Europe. Maybe the rates have dropped since those policies were instituted, but they're clearly not enough.


My vice? Shopping sprees when I'm in a great mood. It's always the same few things, too. I think during my first year of college I spent about $200 on tank tops in half an hour while shopping online, then had to suffer in embarrassment for the next two weeks as I had to go to the post office nearly every day to pick up a package. I've acquired a taste for bargain shopping lately though, and nothing makes me feel EVEN MORE AWESOME!!! than getting a ton of cheap crap when I'm in a mood like that. So at least I'm getting more bang for my buck and theoretically spending less money. Having my money spread across a few different bank accounts, with the sum total being enough to live on but the amount in each account being quite small also keeps me from spending too much at a single store.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 04-01-2010, 12:19 PM
Luana's Avatar
Luana Luana is offline
troublemaker
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: washington state
Posts: 3,343
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makkara View Post
I know several people who smoke but think or used to think they aren't addicted. Trying to quit usually kills that delusion. Maybe the creatures you speak of exist, but I've never seen one.
Well, seeing that I'm already a day-and-a-half into no-smokes land and not feeling what Nick describes as nicotine withdrawal, I may be one of those people after all. I don't know, I know a lot of social smokers who only smoke while at the bars/clubs. Even when I "quit" I still plan on being that type of smoker, but whatevs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nbip View Post
My vice? Shopping sprees when I'm in a great mood.
That's probably my biggest weakness. Whenever I'm out and happy, I always come back with a bag of stuff. Books, office supplies, BPAL, clothes (oh, I'm with you on the tank tops)... yeah. What I end up doing now is buying something, waiting a few days to see whether or not I really want it, and then returning it if I don't. That's what I did with WarioWare DIY!
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 04-02-2010, 09:16 AM
Violentvixen's Avatar
Violentvixen Violentvixen is offline
Shill for Big Cow DNA
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Bend, OR
Posts: 9,526
Default

Whenever I bake I eat TONS of raw batter. The stuff is ambrosia and salmonella is worth it.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 04-02-2010, 09:51 AM
Falselogic's Avatar
Falselogic Falselogic is offline
Threadcromantosaurus Rex
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: California
Posts: 29,369
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Violentvixen View Post
Whenever I bake I eat TONS of raw batter. The stuff is ambrosia and salmonella is worth it.
Oh yeah! The wife likes the butter and sugar but I like to wait until I have the dough or batter complete and then just eat away.

I don't bake cookies anymore because I usually just end up making the dough and then eating it.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 04-02-2010, 09:56 AM
Sarcasmorator's Avatar
Sarcasmorator Sarcasmorator is offline
Space dad
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 15,464
Default

I love chocolate chip cookie dough more than any finished cookie. I could eat a whole batch.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
blackjack + hookers , no smorking , no tout , smork weed erry day

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Your posts ©you, 2007