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  #8761  
Old 04-15-2017, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by aturtledoesbite View Post
Last edited by aturtledoesbite; Yesterday at 08:49 PM. Reason: You practically answered yourself in your own post.
LOL achieved.
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  #8762  
Old 04-18-2017, 07:53 AM
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The lyrics to Blind Guardian's 'Sacred Worlds' sound like they're describing a really high-stakes mafia game.
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  #8763  
Old 04-18-2017, 09:28 AM
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Do I make a voting thread? Is there legit interest?
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  #8764  
Old 04-18-2017, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falselogic View Post
Do I make a voting thread? Is there legit interest?
i think the answer to the second question can be determined by the results of the first

if we don't have enough votes to actually run a game, then we can let the voting thread die, though at this point, you might as well put up the two games we have
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  #8765  
Old 04-18-2017, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aturtledoesbite View Post
i think the answer to the second question can be determined by the results of the first

if we don't have enough votes to actually run a game, then we can let the voting thread die, though at this point, you might as well put up the two games we have
I'll throw in a vanilla-ish micromafia proposal as well. Expect the setup to be similar to this. Flavor TBD later.
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  #8766  
Old 04-18-2017, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerad View Post
Expect the setup to be similar to this.
That was a fun memory. I actually didn't remember much of anything about the game, and when I glanced over the OP's player list, I only really saw how it had ended on day 3 and didn't pay attention to who or how.

I'd even forgotten about my role until I got to the point where I revealed. Good job, me.
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  #8767  
Old 04-19-2017, 05:37 AM
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I'm up to page four of that thread now and I gotta say that I miss mafia, and more particularly I miss playing it with you all. Thanks for the good times.

That said I don't see myself having time to play like ever again. Maybe when my kids are older.
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  #8768  
Old 04-20-2017, 06:51 PM
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OKAY LET'S VOTE
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  #8769  
Old 04-20-2017, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aturtledoesbite View Post
No! The line is "It's Voting Time"!
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  #8770  
Old 04-21-2017, 01:30 PM
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Come on people vote! Let's play some mafia!
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  #8771  
Old 05-17-2017, 05:45 PM
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I think that went rather well! Anyone up for more?
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  #8772  
Old 05-17-2017, 06:03 PM
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Sure.
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  #8773  
Old 05-17-2017, 06:05 PM
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I'd play. Could run, but would rather not.
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  #8774  
Old 05-17-2017, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mogri View Post
I'd play. Could run, but would rather not.
I'd run one! Pretty vanilla, maybe the micromafia set? I'm happy to run whatever though.

Thinking of making an actual rule out of you can't suspect anyone based on what they've done in past games (not that it was at all a problem in this one, just something people dislike in general). I can vote Falselogic with no reason at all stated, I can vote Falselogic and say I think he sounds like he's lying, but I can't vote Falselogic and say that he never tries when he town but now he's trying so kill him. Maybe a warning for first offense and then forced silence other than voting for a day, something like that?

What do you guys think?
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  #8775  
Old 05-17-2017, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerad View Post
I'd run one! Pretty vanilla, maybe the micromafia set? I'm happy to run whatever though.

Thinking of making an actual rule out of you can't suspect anyone based on what they've done in past games (not that it was at all a problem in this one, just something people dislike in general). I can vote Falselogic with no reason at all stated, I can vote Falselogic and say I think he sounds like he's lying, but I can't vote Falselogic and say that he never tries when he town but now he's trying so kill him. Maybe a warning for first offense and then forced silence other than voting for a day, something like that?

What do you guys think?
I'd support it.
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  #8776  
Old 05-17-2017, 07:28 PM
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aturtledoesbite aturtledoesbite is offline
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i would just like to go on record to say

my suspicion of false last game was not because he was acting different than his meta in prior games, but because it seemed very "un-Flawgic" in general
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  #8777  
Old 05-17-2017, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aturtledoesbite View Post
i would just like to go on record to say

my suspicion of false last game was not because he was acting different than his meta in prior games, but because it seemed very "un-Flawgic" in general
That's a meta-argument turtle.
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  #8778  
Old 05-17-2017, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falselogic View Post
That's a meta-argument turtle.
It's a meta-meta-argument!
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  #8779  
Old 05-18-2017, 01:02 AM
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Alpha Werewolf Alpha Werewolf is offline
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I don't really see how you can enforce that kind of rule. Especially considering the reverse case, where your *defense* is meta-based, which is not disallowed under these rules. Take this case:

Me: "Rufferto is acting in a way that makes no sense for a townie to act in so I vote Rufferto"
Rufferto: "But I do act that way as town. I just did last game! In the exact same way!"
Me: "Well I'm not allowed to allow meta considerations to impact my vote so I'm just going to ignore your defense."


It also seems like a prime situation for players going "Hang on! That vote was clearly meta based but was still counted! Therefore this lynch is illegitimate and shouldn't have happened!".


That said, if the concept is that the mod retains discretion to not count votes but also to not give a shit about players asking them to not count votes, I ca accept that.
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  #8780  
Old 05-18-2017, 01:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha Werewolf View Post
I don't really see how you can enforce that kind of rule. Especially considering the reverse case, where your *defense* is meta-based, which is not disallowed under these rules. Take this case:

Me: "Rufferto is acting in a way that makes no sense for a townie to act in so I vote Rufferto"
Rufferto: "But I do act that way as town. I just did last game! In the exact same way!"
Me: "Well I'm not allowed to allow meta considerations to impact my vote so I'm just going to ignore your defense."


It also seems like a prime situation for players going "Hang on! That vote was clearly meta based but was still counted! Therefore this lynch is illegitimate and shouldn't have happened!".


That said, if the concept is that the mod retains discretion to not count votes but also to not give a shit about players asking them to not count votes, I ca accept that.
Im okay with disqualifying any action made based on a meta argument.
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  #8781  
Old 05-18-2017, 01:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falselogic View Post
Im okay with disqualifying any action made based on a meta argument.
Yeah, I totally get that! I'm just saying it's going to be both a. really difficult to enforce, and b. open to "abuse" by a determined player.

Basically it's potentially really hard on the mod and it has to be taken into consideration.
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  #8782  
Old 05-18-2017, 01:33 AM
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aturtledoesbite aturtledoesbite is offline
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frankly

i don't think mafia works as well in a vacuum
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  #8783  
Old 05-18-2017, 05:28 AM
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the thing I think should not be allowed is:
- always lynch "x" player first
its basically telling one player they aren't allowed to play the game. Its unfriendly. Plus its just bad strategy by the town.

I'm willing to try a game where meta is literally not allowed, but I don't want to be the person who has to make that determination. It sounds difficult to enforce. But hey, one of the things I like about mafia here is we try all kinds of different set ups.
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  #8784  
Old 05-18-2017, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha Werewolf View Post
I don't really see how you can enforce that kind of rule. Especially considering the reverse case, where your *defense* is meta-based, which is not disallowed under these rules. Take this case:

Me: "Rufferto is acting in a way that makes no sense for a townie to act in so I vote Rufferto"
Rufferto: "But I do act that way as town. I just did last game! In the exact same way!"
Me: "Well I'm not allowed to allow meta considerations to impact my vote so I'm just going to ignore your defense."


It also seems like a prime situation for players going "Hang on! That vote was clearly meta based but was still counted! Therefore this lynch is illegitimate and shouldn't have happened!".


That said, if the concept is that the mod retains discretion to not count votes but also to not give a shit about players asking them to not count votes, I ca accept that.
My plan would be to just penalize people if they make that kind of argument about other. Defense of self I don't really care about. And it doesn't really matter to me what the vote is actually based on, more that they don't use that type of reasoning to justify it in-thread.
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  #8785  
Old 05-18-2017, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerad View Post
I'd run one! Pretty vanilla, maybe the micromafia set? I'm happy to run whatever though.

Thinking of making an actual rule out of you can't suspect anyone based on what they've done in past games (not that it was at all a problem in this one, just something people dislike in general). I can vote Falselogic with no reason at all stated, I can vote Falselogic and say I think he sounds like he's lying, but I can't vote Falselogic and say that he never tries when he town but now he's trying so kill him. Maybe a warning for first offense and then forced silence other than voting for a day, something like that?

What do you guys think?
Unenforceable. And probably not necessary.

Also, I would never play in a game that had such a rule.
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  #8786  
Old 05-18-2017, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solitayre View Post
Unenforceable. And probably not necessary.

Also, I would never play in a game that had such a rule.
okay
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  #8787  
Old 05-18-2017, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solitayre View Post
Unenforceable. And probably not necessary.

Also, I would never play in a game that had such a rule.
I thought you weren't playing because you hated the metagame?
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  #8788  
Old 05-18-2017, 12:30 PM
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If Solitayre and Gerad are both playing, and Solitayre thinks Gerad is acting like he did as mafia in a previous game, what does Solitayre do now?



He either has to pretend he doesn't suspect Gerad and not make a case even if it turns out Gerad was mafia, or make something up to cover for his real suspicions. You can't disallow meta reads, you can only forbid players to act on them, or force players to disguise them, both of which to me, sounds onerous and not fun.
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  #8789  
Old 05-18-2017, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solitayre View Post
If Solitayre and Gerad are both playing, and Solitayre thinks Gerad is acting like he did as mafia in a previous game, what does Solitayre do now?



He either has to pretend he doesn't suspect Gerad and not make a case even if it turns out Gerad was mafia, or make something up to cover for his real suspicions. You can't disallow meta reads, you can only forbid players to act on them, or force players to disguise them, both of which to me, sounds onerous and not fun.
Go on something other than his gut which is notoriously wrong and only exists because of confirmation bias and remembering the hits and forgetting the misses.
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  #8790  
Old 05-19-2017, 09:32 AM
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Yeah, I like the intent behind this change, but I too think that's it's not really practical. In Mafia as in all things, I like being me, and it seems kind of awkward to ask other people to ignore that. To my mind, the only way that you take the meta out of mafia is that anonyMafia that Dizzy was clamouring for for years. And even then, I bet everyone starts pretending to be other people and making jokes about the meta.

ETA: At a basic level, Mafia is about identifying changes in behavior based upon hidden roles. It doesn't seem fair to tell people that they need to identify changes without citing a person's normal behavior as a baseline.
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