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View Poll Results: Something has survived.
Top 50 Female Characters in Video Games 10 29.41%
Top 50 Mario Characters/Enemies 15 44.12%
Top 50 Tabletop Games 16 47.06%
Top 50 Time Travelers 9 26.47%
Top 50 Undergraduate Majors 6 17.65%
Top 50 Video Game Character Designs 11 32.35%
Top 50 Video Games of the 21st Century 16 47.06%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 34. You may not vote on this poll

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  #121  
Old 03-22-2017, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Karzac View Post
So on a list of Top 50 movies, you'd consider RoboCop and RoboCop (2014) to be the same movie?
Point is moot anyway. Jbear says he's allowing them in the thread.
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  #122  
Old 03-23-2017, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Karzac View Post
So on a list of Top 50 movies, you'd consider RoboCop and RoboCop (2014) to be the same movie?
To me counting D&D 3 and 5 separately would be like counting Apocalypse Now and Apocalypse Now Redux separately.
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  #123  
Old 03-23-2017, 07:09 AM
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To me counting D&D 3 and 5 separately would be like counting Apocalypse Now and Apocalypse Now Redux separately.
3 and 5 I can maybe buy, but what about like Basic D&D and 4th? I'm not saying different editions of games are always completely different from each other, but D&D is almost 45 years old. The people who made the original game aren't alive anymore and many of the people who make it now weren't alive when the original came out. To call them the same game buys into marketing to an unreasonable degree, in my opinion.

I know this discussion doesn't matter for the current list. JBear's running things and gets to decide the rules. I just like thinking about this stuff. I'll drop it if people are annoyed.
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  #124  
Old 03-23-2017, 07:18 AM
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3 and 5 happen to be the two editions I've played. Are there many games besides D&D where you think of different editions as vastly different experiences?
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  #125  
Old 03-23-2017, 08:53 AM
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It would be reasonable to split out 4e from every other edition, but only if you include pathfinder in "every other edition".

I could also see
OD&D, BCEMI, 5e - D&D light.
AD&D, 2e - Advanced D&D.
3e, 3.5, Pathfinder - D&D20.
4e - 4e D&D.

But one D&D is also fine.
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  #126  
Old 03-23-2017, 09:04 AM
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The way I see it, entries should be as general as the list itself. Since JBear's list is very broad, it makes sense for the entries themselves to be broad. For a specific list on pen-and-paper RPGs, it makes sense to get more specific and list each edition separately.
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  #127  
Old 03-23-2017, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Adrenaline View Post
3 and 5 happen to be the two editions I've played. Are there many games besides D&D where you think of different editions as vastly different experiences?
4th Edition D&D plays almost nothing like the others. It was a clear reaction by Wizards of the coast to the popularity of World of Warcraft, and transforms the game into a boardgame-based MMO-style raid event. You have to play with minis, and class-based AOE abilities, uptime/downtime and status effects are all major players in the game in a way they just aren't anywhere else.

For RPGs, Exalted 1st, 2nd, and 3rd edition are all dramatically different, as are the various versions of Nobilis, Star Wars, and Paranoia, off the top of my head. Many contain stats and entire systems that don't stay constant from edition to edition, and vary markedly in tone (even the cases where the same authors do each one). In contrast, I think you could argue that all versions of Vampire:The Masquerade or GURPS are pretty much the same, and while the story of the world evolves or new supplements may jump out, they pretty much knew what they wanted their system to be on version 1 and tweaked it a bit.

For Board games, there's more rarely a huge difference between some game editions, such as the original Arkham Horror (which believe it or not was a roll-and-move style game) and the Fantasy Flight Version. These two things offer a fundamentally different experience from one another, and while they have the same theme, they do not share the same mechanics or gameplay.

In the board game world, similar updates/changes have come to games like Talisman, Risk, Game of Thrones, and a few others. It's less prominent than in the RPG world, though, for sure. A lot of the dramatic changes in this realm have come from updates to the way we perceive board games as good or bad. Most modern games try to minimize or get rid of player elimination, for example, so it's more of an "update" process than a complete redesign. You could probably call those more tweaks than changes, but boardgame "remakes" from the ground up do happen.
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  #128  
Old 03-23-2017, 09:20 AM
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You roll a dice, you killeth the orc, all in the D&D World.
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  #129  
Old 03-23-2017, 09:29 AM
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Let's talk about THACO.
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  #130  
Old 03-23-2017, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Adrenaline View Post
3 and 5 happen to be the two editions I've played. Are there many games besides D&D where you think of different editions as vastly different experiences?
Bulgakov answered better than I could.
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  #131  
Old 03-23-2017, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulgakov View Post
4th Edition D&D plays almost nothing like the others. It was a clear reaction by Wizards of the coast to the popularity of World of Warcraft, and transforms the game into a boardgame-based MMO-style raid event. You have to play with minis, and class-based AOE abilities, uptime/downtime and status effects are all major players in the game in a way they just aren't anywhere else.
D&D 4 is good, and cool, and was set up to fail by an evil cabal I term "The Evil Cabal."
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  #132  
Old 03-23-2017, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulgakov View Post
4th Edition D&D plays almost nothing like the others. It was a clear reaction by Wizards of the coast to the popularity of World of Warcraft, and transforms the game into a boardgame-based MMO-style raid event. You have to play with minis, and class-based AOE abilities, uptime/downtime and status effects are all major players in the game in a way they just aren't anywhere else.
i think i need to play more 4e

has it hit that point that pathfinder's in where everything is free online yet
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  #133  
Old 03-23-2017, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by aturtledoesbite View Post
i think i need to play more 4e

has it hit that point that pathfinder's in where everything is free online yet
Depends on where you look.

Also you want monsters from MM3 onward - they rejiggered the monster math (wa-wooooo the monster math)
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  #134  
Old 03-23-2017, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Bulgakov View Post
uptime/downtime and status effects are all major players in the game in a way they just aren't anywhere else.
HAH.

"I cast detect magic."

"Your party lights up like a bunch of Christmas trees."
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  #135  
Old 03-23-2017, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by aturtledoesbite View Post
i think i need to play more 4e
Or play Strike, which has a good claim on being 4E's equivalent to Pathfinder. (Except that Strike actually fixes what people didn't like about its predecessor, hey-oooo)
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  #136  
Old 03-23-2017, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Lucas View Post
(Except that Strike actually fixes what people didn't like about its predecessor, hey-oooo)
*high-fives Lucas*
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  #137  
Old 03-23-2017, 05:43 PM
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Or play Strike, which has a good claim on being 4E's equivalent to Pathfinder. (Except that Strike actually fixes what people didn't like about its predecessor, hey-oooo)
I oughta check that up. 4e as done by people who know math sounds good.
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  #138  
Old 03-23-2017, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Issun View Post
Let's talk about THACO.
I have a pet theory that considers this the first instance of leetspeak.
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  #139  
Old 03-24-2017, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Destil View Post
*high-fives Lucas*
Brother!

Though to be perfectly fair, I'm not actually certain Pathfinder was meant to fix anything more than to just provide gamers more of the same when D&D moved on to 4E. It's just so much more of the same.
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  #140  
Old 03-24-2017, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas View Post
Brother!

Though to be perfectly fair, I'm not actually certain Pathfinder was meant to fix anything more than to just provide gamers more of the same when D&D moved on to 4E. It's just so much more of the same.
Pathfinder exists because Lisa Stevens ain't no fool and after having to salvage her company's entire business model once she took one look at the 5E OGL replacement and noped on out of supporting Wizards.

They had to choose between actually fixing things and keeping (roughly) full compatibility with all the 3.x content out there.

There was a lot of excitement during the playtest and feedback phase, but in the end it's just 3.75E (with a lot of complexity creep and some buffs to weaker PC options but no real systematic fixes).
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  #141  
Old 04-04-2017, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by JBear View Post
Guys.

Guys, halp.

I may be an idiot.

I just spent 200 real life dollars ordering a very stupid thing for this.*

And I intend to spend more!

!!!

(!)


* They're just Canada dollars, though, so they're like, barely real. Also if it turns out how I want then I'll hopefully get some mileage out of it for years afterwards, so I'm telling myself that it's an investment.
It got here today, and it is magnificent. Worth every penny. I'm looking at it now and grinning like an idiot.
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  #142  
Old 04-04-2017, 08:22 PM
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Guys JBear got himself a waifu pillow.
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  #143  
Old 04-04-2017, 08:23 PM
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Guys JBear got himself a waifu pillow.
You leave borudo-chan alone!
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