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  #151  
Old 03-23-2016, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Dart Zaidyer View Post
Hey TT, how would you feel about making a Doom episode together?

(All responses amounting to "I can't/won't/don't know how, but will test" shall automatically be counted as "no")
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Two weeks later. . .

I guess nobody actually wants to do this? Okay.
Closes with this

I don't know about you guys but I felt motivated
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  #152  
Old 03-23-2016, 06:04 PM
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What? I didn't even know we were starting. I was expecting some sort of groundwork and discussion first.
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  #153  
Old 03-23-2016, 06:14 PM
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What? I didn't even know we were starting. I was expecting some sort of groundwork and discussion first.
I guess we could just use the ruleset for the ZDoom forum's Doom Upstart Mapping Project if we really want to.
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  #154  
Old 03-23-2016, 06:32 PM
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I've been at work independently, learning Slade.

If y'all wanna get together and do a chat room or something so we can get on the same page and start rocking/walk through some basics of the program for noobies, I think we should do that. I can put together a little tutorial post and show it here too, maybe I'll have it up by tomorrow night if not Friday.

I'm gonna be on business is California in two weeks, so I think I can get a map churned out during the night hours that week since I'll have nuthin' else to do~
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  #155  
Old 03-23-2016, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Dart Zaidyer View Post
I guess we could just use the ruleset for the ZDoom forum's Doom Upstart Mapping Project if we really want to.
What? Are you leading us or not? We want the leader to create a dedicated thread and then propose the rules here, not just link something we aren't familiar with and go "maybe use this".

If you write up your own rules and add rationale for some of them it will move things along a lot better. People will feel like they can propose changes or comment with agreement, and we can feel like there is a consensus. We're a gang of newbies too, so this stuff also needs to be explained a bit better.

It hasn't even been clarified if this is doom or doom2. You suggested before to use resources (or was it engine features? I have no idea) from non-doom stuff? I still am confused from my older comment on this. There's also stuff like difficulty, theme, and map consistency. Even if we don't want to organize those parts, saying so should be an explicit part of the groundwork.
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  #156  
Old 03-23-2016, 08:31 PM
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If you want something to happen you need to use leadership.

I still don't have time to do this, but I'll suggest a framework that might be put to use. Target (G)ZDoom. Use Doom 2 as the IWAD, but make use of features from other games freely as provided by the engine. Create a single, shared PWAD for custom assets; any asset that would take an effect in multiple levels, such as changing the appearance of a common enemy or setting the menu text, should be subject to a democratic process or at least be vetoable. Don't bother with a story.

The initial goal is to make an episode of six to nine maps depending on the number of participants. If you get more participants, increase the number of episodes rather than make the episode longer. The first level must provide the shotgun. Most maps should contain the next weapon somewhere along its critical path, as assigned by the coordinator; participants will sign up for a particular slot (nearer the beginning or the end of the episode) based on what weapons they want to be available in it. The coordinator may approve stronger weapons being made available earlier in secrets.

If there are multiple episodes, release each one as a separate WAD, so that the overridden assets can be used more flexibly. The end product should be a prepackaged version of GZDoom or ZDoom that is preconfigured to launch with our WAD.
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  #157  
Old 04-18-2016, 11:57 AM
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Anyone play the beta for the new one?

prrreeeeeetty stinky :\
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  #158  
Old 04-18-2016, 12:34 PM
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Yeah, best things I can say is that it's competent I guess and that it is so damn smooth on PS4 at least.
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  #159  
Old 04-18-2016, 01:37 PM
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I played in the alpha and various betas for the PS4 version and had *just* enough fun each time that I'd play the next time the servers were open. It's not a slow as Doom 3 thankfully, but still lacks the frantic pace and in your face nature that made the originals so great, especially in multiplayer. I may have only used a handful of weapons when playing classic Doom 1/2 deathmatch but Doom's 4 limited weapon carrying capacity and burnable perks makes it seem like they decided to just copy the most recent Halo, gore it up and call it a day.
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  #160  
Old 04-18-2016, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kairu View Post
I played in the alpha and various betas for the PS4 version and had *just* enough fun each time that I'd play the next time the servers were open. It's not a slow as Doom 3 thankfully, but still lacks the frantic pace and in your face nature that made the originals so great, especially in multiplayer.
It's interesting how iD promoted the original as being slower than some other action games, such as Contra I guess.

Quote:
This is not a cumbersome adventure game, but an action-oriented slugathon. You don't need the reflexes of a hyperactive eight-year-old to win, either--using your wits is IMPORTANT. To escape DOOM, you need both brains and the killer instinct.
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  #161  
Old 04-18-2016, 07:29 PM
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So.. Are the servers supposed to be down for open beta? I'm still playing fine on the PC which is pretty weird.
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  #162  
Old 04-19-2016, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kairu View Post
I played in the alpha and various betas for the PS4 version and had *just* enough fun each time that I'd play the next time the servers were open. It's not a slow as Doom 3 thankfully, but still lacks the frantic pace and in your face nature that made the originals so great, especially in multiplayer. I may have only used a handful of weapons when playing classic Doom 1/2 deathmatch but Doom's 4 limited weapon carrying capacity and burnable perks makes it seem like they decided to just copy the most recent Halo, gore it up and call it a day.
Aww, after Wolfenstein I had really high hopes that Doom wouldn't be doing nonsense like that.

Though, hopefully, that's just for the multiplayer, and solo is nice and properly Doomy
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  #163  
Old 04-19-2016, 07:08 AM
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Have you played it? That's good to hear, I never did MP in the doom series anyway so I can live without it as long as SP delivers the goods.
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  #164  
Old 04-19-2016, 07:52 AM
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Nu!DOOM is being developed in-house by iD though, the last couple of (great) Wolf games were developed by Machine Head Games in either Norway or Sweden, I forget.
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  #165  
Old 05-13-2016, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Octopus Prime View Post
Aww, after Wolfenstein I had really high hopes that Doom wouldn't be doing nonsense like that.

Though, hopefully, that's just for the multiplayer, and solo is nice and properly Doomy
Phew.

I'm just about done the fourth or fifth level and IT IS INDEED suitably Doomy.

You get the whole assortment of weapons at a time, rather then being forced to swap between two and while they're all the typical FPS fare, most of them have two different, upgrade-able alt-modes. You earn points to upgrade your weapons either by doing special challenges in each level and by killing a suitable number of monsters, and upgrades to the Doomguy Suit by finding collectables in secret rooms.

Also the plot is about an Evil Optimus Prime drilling into Hell and strip mining all of its Hell Energy and then being dismissive of all the problems inherent with this plan.

Also, DoomGuy is apparently the exact same DoomGuy, who was sealed away to save the world the next time something dumb like this happened.

And E1M1 plays whenever there are monsters around to shoot.

This hole was made for me
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  #166  
Old 05-13-2016, 03:50 PM
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I'm really glad NuDoom seems to be actually good, and I'm pleased the multiplayer seems at least okay, since they added a classic 4-player weapon pickup deathmatch mode. Not that I'm a myopic gamer complaining about any sort of change at all whatsoever, but at least they kept some of what distinguished the classics.

@ Octupus Prime: that sounds like the plot of a classic Doctor Who serial; I think it was a 3rd Doctor one. Incidentally, the plot of the first game's first episode would make a pretty good 4th Doctor serial. The Terror of Phobos.
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  #167  
Old 05-13-2016, 04:45 PM
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  #168  
Old 05-13-2016, 05:41 PM
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I tried replaying Doom 3 BFG edition and I quit in some monorail level. I forget how much of the game is left after there, but the problem is it all sucks until you get the Soul Cube thing, and even after that it's pretty lame. It's all in the shitty enemy behavior. That was the best part of Doom 1 and 2, and hopefully it's at least sort of carried over to the new one.
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  #169  
Old 05-13-2016, 06:18 PM
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Imps straight-up play Ultimate Frisby with their fireballs when they aren't tossing them out Hadouken style.

And Mancubuses have not improved with age...
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  #170  
Old 05-13-2016, 06:39 PM
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To be clear, I mean stuff like shoot a gun and wake up a lot of demons, get them in crossfire and they attack each other, and enemies don't hesitate to open doors and chase after you so long as they're alerted.

I think everybody here knows what Doom 3's like, but still, replaying BFG edition just reminded me how bad it is fighting waves of spider guys or dealing with monster closets and heavily scripted spawns. Plus there are a few cheap hits behind doors and the like and those get on my nerves. And it's got a bad weapon selection, but that's because they added 2 totally unnecessary weapons (grenades and the SMG). The SMG's good, but it gets in the way of the Chaingun, and the grenades are junk that clogs up an inventory space when they should have given you the rocket launcher sooner.
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  #171  
Old 05-13-2016, 11:39 PM
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I'd argue two weapons that are good aren't all that bad, but yeah 3 had a bit too many of them. I still need to finish that game one of these days.
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  #172  
Old 05-14-2016, 12:27 AM
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The problem with the SMG being good is that you get the Chaingun for a little bit, then the Plasma Rifle follows it almost immediately. The Plasma Rifle is the strongest of the three, and SMG clips and plasma cells are a lot more common than ammo belts for the chaingun. You wind up with the chaingun being pretty crappy and easy to ignore.

Grenades are something I just plain don't use, because this game sticks to the "explosions = you dead" style of Doom 1 and 2, but grenades either explode on contact or bounce a short distance and then go off. Most times, the wind-up makes them too slow to use in a real fight, and the poor range makes them really bad for throwing at an enemy you know you can catch in the blast.

If the game cut out 2 of the 3 weapons between the SMG, chaingun, and grenades, it'd be better for the inventory and I think it'd help the game balance more. I would be even happier with them reducing the gun count so you have something like:
pistol
shotgun
plasma rifle
rocket launcher
BFG
chainsaw
soul cube

I do like that Doom 3 doesn't give you a limited inventory, but it kinda shows that Doom 1 and 2 got their arsenal just about right, and trying to expand on that is silly. Also, most of the guns sound good, and even look good in the BFG edition. It's just kinda badly organized.
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  #173  
Old 05-14-2016, 01:30 AM
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I never played the BFG edition of Doom 3, but man, I really loved Doom 3. I must be crazy.
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  #174  
Old 05-14-2016, 01:31 AM
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BFG edition is just Doom 3 more or less remade in the Rage engine, I think.

I mean, I like Doom 3 enough, but I am not going to come out and say that this is an all-time classic FPS. The expansion's pretty hot, though!
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  #175  
Old 05-14-2016, 05:24 AM
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I picked this up and can't wait to find all the secret doors.
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  #176  
Old 05-14-2016, 08:26 AM
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So yeah, complaining about Doom 3 BFG Edition got me to reinstall it. I do think BFG Edition is a big improvement over the original, just because the flashlight doesn't take away your guns anymore. And I just spent like 4 hours playing it. It's kinda too hard on Veteran difficulty for me. But...

Once you get the Soul Cube, the game kinda ramps up, as there's a nice flow to combat and some tactical depth/skill play where you want to hit the biggest, baddest enemy alive with it so you not only instakill it, but also get a full health refill. There are just enough enemy spawns at this point that you have at least 2 enemies up in most fights, usually a little more.

Gameplay complaints: armor is pretty much useless. I've rarely seen it drop below 100 before dying, and it seems to absorb virtually none of the damage you take. Yet armor is super common, to the point that you're usually running around at 125/125 after fights just because it's around all the ammo piles you can find. Also, some enemies are just unfair on Veteran difficulty. For example: Chaingun guys. They rapid fire your health down at a crazy rate and the only way to kill them fast enough is either the Soul Cube, rocket launcher, or BFG. Speaking of, the BFG is kinda not good in this one. They obviously wanted to make it more unique than in Doom 1 and 2, but the only idea they had was to make it burn ammo by charging shots to do more damage. Which is honestly really lame and gets at the problem a lot of guns have in Doom 3. The game is still at heart a FPS where you sprint around enemies and blast them, so it can feel like the originals when you're doing that. But a lot of the guns are so slow and weak that I wind up opting for the rapid-fire guns, as they seem to kill faster despite being a lot weaker per bullet. The shotgun's weak, which is a sad thing for Doom (the expansion has the double shotgun, which is appropriately strong) and the unfortunate side effect of the SMG/chaingun/plasma rifle conundrum is that the chain gun kinda turns into the "slow but deadly" one of these three, with its wind-up before firing, and horrible inaccuracy compared to the SMG/plasma rifle.

I also kinda wish they had stayed a little closer to classic Doom and removed clips for the chaingun and plasma rifle. For the SMG it makes sense, plus then it feels more like the SMG is an early-game gun you only use against weaker enemies. And I mean, it makes sense for the chaingun and plasma rifle, but reloading those is a hassle, especially since on Veteran, most enemies above Imps take 1/2 of a clip or more to kill.
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  #177  
Old 05-14-2016, 09:00 AM
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The lack of reloading in this one keeps throwing me off. I keep accidentally, and instinctively, equipping the chainsaw when there's a lull in combat.
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  #178  
Old 05-14-2016, 10:41 AM
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I never did play Doom 3's expansion. Just regular old Doom 3. I think I see why people complain about it.

But I'll be gotdamned if I didn't adore that game. I found it pretty darn scary back in the day. Futuristic creepy Mars is a good setting, and demons and cool lighting and that horror vibe are all things that make Sly Ry a happy guy. I just love creepy games.
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  #179  
Old 05-14-2016, 11:12 AM
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I still really like the setting and art for this game. And the Hell chapter where you get the Soul Cube is super fun, and in general the Hell levels are great. That's part of why the expansion is good, since it has more stuff like that + its weapons are more fun (to me, anyway) with its double shotgun and gravity gun ripoff. Also, the level design is pretty nice, as it isn't just straight corridors with scripted stuff. I mean there are tons of scripted enemy spawns and ambushes and the like, but most levels, you're exploring a couple different paths that wind up leading back to a central hub/the main level exit, so its map design still feels a lot like classic Doom even if the enemies and weapons don't.

Where the scripted spawns and ambushes and stuff suck is like, I've had plenty of times where I get pretty far into a level and die, and since I forgot to quicksave, it goes back to the last auto-save (another addition to BFG edition I'm grateful for). Then, because I know where the spawns and stuff come in, the level is much easier. And the first run? It's usually annoying instead of scary or tense. That's a big shame because, like I said, the art and level design is metal as hell.

For all my complaining here, I'm still enjoying the game enough to finish it, and I'd still say it's a solid but unspectacular FPS. That's better than a lot of others I've played from its time (and later), just kinda disappointing for the Doom franchise, is all.

The hand grenades thing keeps reminding me of Quake 2, where you could throw grenades, but then when you get the grenade launcher, that gun shoots them much further and makes them do more damage. I really feel like THAT kind of gun should have been in Doom 3 instead of the SMG/chain gun. And it reminds me how I felt like Quake 2 was kinda already a pseudo-Doom 3 when I first played that. I mean its campaign against the Strogg or whatever they were called isn't the same as the forces of Hell, but overall, it felt like a Doom game to me in its single player.
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  #180  
Old 05-14-2016, 05:21 PM
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I picked up Doom 2016 after seeing a good deal of positive impressions between here and Giant Bomb, Polygon, etc. Just beat the campaign which looks like it clocked in at about 9 hrs according to Steam.

This was a fun and fast paced game and I'm glad it came together so well. Looks like there's a fair amount of technical issues out there, but I'd definitely recommend once those items get worked out and when it's on a sale.

Snapmap looks like it could be neat, we'll have to see what people do with it, though. And I doubt I'll ever touch multiplayer. The beta didn't really strike me as anything special.
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