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  #451  
Old 10-11-2017, 04:21 PM
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Dan Harmon can craft a fine comedy and should absolutely not have any other interaction with society.
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  #452  
Old 10-11-2017, 07:22 PM
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Turns out we didn't need a Rick and Morty thread!
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  #453  
Old 10-12-2017, 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Octopus Prime View Post
Dan Harmon can craft a fine comedy and should absolutely not have any other interaction with society.
This about sums it up. Guy can't shut up to save himself the grief, no matter how obvious the consequences of escalating might be. He's basically the jaded, bitter Rick to Roiland's naive, enthusiastic Morty, as has frequently been observed.

Thankfully that relationship keeps producing some legitimately great comedy! This season was pretty great, and neither one of them is a truly out-and-out awful person - as evidenced by the fair degree self-awareness they display on occasion - so I'm still really looking forward to the next one.
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  #454  
Old 10-12-2017, 05:54 AM
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Default ALSO ALL MY JMT, DMX, EMINEM, GUNS & ROSES, NWA, GREENDAY, BIGGIE SMALLS & METALLICA

If I held myself to a "Don't like things made by people who are total douchebags" standards, I'd have to throw away all my NoFX albums and THAT SHIT AIN'T HAPPENING.

Last edited by BEAT; 10-12-2017 at 05:57 AM. Reason: ALSO MY MAD MAX MOVIES. AND LETHAL WEAPON.
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  #455  
Old 10-12-2017, 11:24 AM
Onomarchus Onomarchus is offline
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A Wired profile reveals that Dan Harmon has (may have?) the Asperger's.
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  #456  
Old 10-12-2017, 11:29 AM
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I am sympathetic to that, but having a congenital lack of brain/mouth filter doesn't excuse being an asshole or attempting to adjust your life to deal with it.

Which may not be what you were implying, but "He's got Asperger's, he knows not what he does!" is the lamest and oldest excuse this side of "I was in fear of my life, Your Honor!". It does nothing to change the fact that he is an asshole, it just means he can never have much of a brain-to-mouth filter.
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  #457  
Old 10-12-2017, 11:31 AM
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Honest question: when does one accept another person's angry outbursts as an unfortunate part of a greater psychological/emotional issue, and deserve higher tolerance than usual because they can be good people in ordinary circumstances, and when do we go, nope, that's no excuse, they ARE an asshole?
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  #458  
Old 10-12-2017, 11:37 AM
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It can be both, being an asshole doesn't really preclude you from being a 'good' person.

Angry outbursts are mostly reflexive, so what you say while you're angry is generally a pretty good indicator of what you actually believe about a subject/person. Not-angry you tends to have the social consciousness going and enough of a brain/mouth filter to not blurt out your deepest and darkest id on a whim. Having Asperger's just means you don't have much of a filter in general, so it's that much harder to tamp down on angry outbursts and the like.
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  #459  
Old 10-12-2017, 12:12 PM
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lmao i'm pickle riiiick
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  #460  
Old 10-12-2017, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zef View Post
Honest question: when does one accept another person's angry outbursts as an unfortunate part of a greater psychological/emotional issue, and deserve higher tolerance than usual because they can be good people in ordinary circumstances, and when do we go, nope, that's no excuse, they ARE an asshole?
The former is acceptable as long as it makes you feel like a big man
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  #461  
Old 10-12-2017, 12:37 PM
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turned myself into a pickle morttyyy
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  #462  
Old 10-12-2017, 02:50 PM
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  #463  
Old 10-12-2017, 03:09 PM
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  #464  
Old 10-12-2017, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zef View Post
Honest question: when does one accept another person's angry outbursts as an unfortunate part of a greater psychological/emotional issue, and deserve higher tolerance than usual because they can be good people in ordinary circumstances, and when do we go, nope, that's no excuse, they ARE an asshole?
99% of valuable art in the world has been produced by people who by and large were assholes, publicly or privately. And if they weren't assholes, they were probably up to some shit that'd be ripe for a good, modern, Internet infini-shaming.

People can decide for themselves if a person is a dick or if art sucks but IMO you'd have to be a real fool to really think someone's personal conduct directly dictates the potential value of their work.
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  #465  
Old 10-12-2017, 04:29 PM
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Nono, my question wasn't related to their artistic production. It's just, I have had the luxury of and acknowledged privilege of not having mental health issues in my family, so I recognize my inability to "deal" with a situation where a person's outbursts may be the result of such an issue. That's why I asked, in good faith, whether there was a point where those could be excused/forgiven under such circumstances, and a point where blaming a lack of empathy/an aggressive or hostile personality on something like Asberger's stops being valid.

Whether that affects their artistic output and the audience's reception thereof is another question, and, I think, one left to the individual.
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  #466  
Old 10-12-2017, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghosttaster View Post
People can decide for themselves if a person is a dick or if art sucks but IMO you'd have to be a real fool to really think someone's personal conduct directly dictates the potential value of their work.
I dunno man. I think you can compartamentalize the two only so far sometimes. It's something individuals have to decide for themselves case-by-case. Like, there comes a point where no matter how much you like R Kelly's tunes, that you realize, "Oh god, they were all about pedophilia, weren't they?"
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  #467  
Old 10-12-2017, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zef View Post
Nono, my question wasn't related to their artistic production. It's just, I have had the luxury of and acknowledged privilege of not having mental health issues in my family, so I recognize my inability to "deal" with a situation where a person's outbursts may be the result of such an issue. That's why I asked, in good faith, whether there was a point where those could be excused/forgiven under such circumstances, and a point where blaming a lack of empathy/an aggressive or hostile personality on something like Asberger's stops being valid.

Whether that affects their artistic output and the audience's reception thereof is another question, and, I think, one left to the individual.
Mental Illness is no excuse for being an asshole, or being an abuser.

Ever.

Nothing exonerates that.
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  #468  
Old 10-12-2017, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
I dunno man. I think you can compartamentalize the two only so far sometimes. It's something individuals have to decide for themselves case-by-case. Like, there comes a point where no matter how much you like R Kelly's tunes, that you realize, "Oh god, they were all about pedophilia, weren't they?"
I understand what you're saying. I guess I just feel put off when people equate thinking Knife in the Water is an important film with approving of child rape, and so on. I don't think Roman Polanski, Woody Allen or Robert Crumb are like, good, cool guys who should somehow get a pass. They're all terrible. But also, they all created work that I enjoy and find to be important.

Zef, I apologize. I didn't mean to put words in your mouth. I automatically assumed you were speaking in reference to Harmon's public behavior/assholishness in relation to ours and others' perception of his stuff.
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  #469  
Old 10-12-2017, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zef View Post
Nono, my question wasn't related to their artistic production. It's just, I have had the luxury of and acknowledged privilege of not having mental health issues in my family, so I recognize my inability to "deal" with a situation where a person's outbursts may be the result of such an issue. That's why I asked, in good faith, whether there was a point where those could be excused/forgiven under such circumstances, and a point where blaming a lack of empathy/an aggressive or hostile personality on something like Asberger's stops being valid.

Whether that affects their artistic output and the audience's reception thereof is another question, and, I think, one left to the individual.
My previous response was more serious than you might think
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  #470  
Old 10-12-2017, 07:26 PM
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I'm no psychologist, so I can't go too deep into it, but a) "I was in fear of my life" is such a good excuse that self-defense is a valid defense to the charge of murder, and b) people don't need an excuse to be mere assholes. It's not like Harmon has been accused of raping people (that I know of); unless you are going to not watch his cartoon if you think he is an asshole, then you aren't in a good position to judge him. (If you aren't going to watch it for that reason, this particular cartoon was probably too assholish for you in the first place.) I bet he feeds on the negative attention anyway. I know I have done that in similar situations. Personally, I think Garfield using the N-word on Channel 101 was worse than what Harmon said on Twitter recently.

As for the Asperger's, it's not about excusing or condemning his conduct as much as just explaining it. Autists might not be mentally ill and instead just be the closest thing we have to aliens we can (try to) communicate with. A lot of what he says is straight up incomprehensible. I still can't parse, "Could be why you're protecting hamburgers from cartoons." "I alone have the luxury of making any joke I want about any of this..." is just wrong, since at the very least Justin Roiland has that same luxury. I find it difficult to pity Harmon because the Asperger's doesn't come from some trauma and he seems capable of being happy. On the other hand, he doesn't seem to be able to communicate well with normal humans the way humans normally communicate with other humans. (Not that I'm claiming to be a normal human, since I am mentally ill, but I am not an autist.) If you think he needs to be punished for his obnoxiousness, I bet the 11-month length of his marriage hurt him more than what nerds on Twitter and a gated forum with literally tens of people on it at any given time have to say about him.
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  #471  
Old 10-12-2017, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
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I still can't parse, "Could be why you're protecting hamburgers from cartoons."
"I am questioning your self-worth if you feel the need to defend a soulless corporation for creating a promotion to shamelessly piggy-back off of the success of a television show's throwaway joke [while presumably not making any attempt to show CN any succor in return] and subsequently managing to handle said promotion laughably poorly."

Like, wow, Dan Harmon is such an asshole for getting all riled up after some idiot on the internet attacked his stupid tweets for something that basically isn't his fault at all, am I right guys? Notice how nobody is calling the idiot that tweeted back at him as if McNaldo's stupidity was somehow his fault an asshole, presumably because that would feel like they're punching downwards?
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  #472  
Old 10-13-2017, 05:34 AM
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I imagine it's very frustrating and embarrassing to have something you've worked very hard on be fully (and visibly) embraced by one of the first world's most cringey, undesirable demographics.
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  #473  
Old 10-13-2017, 06:32 AM
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As an aside, can we all agree not to use the term "autist"? It's pathologizing. Instead, can we try to use "people with autism" or "autistic people"?

Thank you.
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  #474  
Old 10-13-2017, 04:59 PM
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I disagree. "Autist" itself isn't pathologizing--it may have acquired a negative connotation, I guess--but "people with autism" is: when you say a "person with X," it means you have an independently formed person who has acquired a disease, in the way you say a person has a cold or depression. You wouldn't call a homosexual a "person with homosexuality" unless you wanted to put homosexuality back in the DSM. Not being a psychologist, I don't really know whether autism is a disease belonging in the DSM or just a different way of being or whatever, but since the latter is where I was going with my argument I was being sure to accommodate it. (And turning "X" into "X-ic person" is a wordiness crime on English that solves nothing.) I suppose "person of autism" would work, but that's unwieldy, as is "person of the autistic persuasion." I guess we could use a new word, as long as it's not indigo/indigo child (too stupid) or Auton (already taken by Doctor Who).

Thank you for loving Pupkin.
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  #475  
Old 10-13-2017, 05:46 PM
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But...no, really, as somebody with an autistic child who has been around lots of other folks on the spectrum and talked to plenty of specialists and all sorts of stuff, I'm tellin' ya, no, don't call a person with autism an 'autist'. That's not the term anybody involved in it ever uses, and I've literally only ever actually heard 'autist' used by people online to insult each other.

You're obviously not very well-informed or up-to-date on autism (for instance, "Asperger's" is not a thing anymore), which is fine! But it does mean that, upon being told to please not use a certain word, you probably should take that as a learning opportunity about something you admit not to be very knowledgeable about. Don't double down on it and give a semantic lecture on why the phrase you happen to prefer...which, as you bring up but then dismiss as if it doesn't matter, DOES have negative connotations...is not only perfectly fine, but also since you personally like it more than any other option you can personally think of, it is the best one.

This is roughly as good an idea as telling any group of people that something they consider a slur is actually a better term for them, and you are therefore definitely allowed to call them that.

Also, calling autistic people "aliens we can (try to) communicate with" is maybe not great, either.

Last edited by Deptford; 10-13-2017 at 06:51 PM.
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  #476  
Old 10-13-2017, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onomarchus View Post
You wouldn't call a homosexual a "person with homosexuality" unless you wanted to put homosexuality back in the DSM.
"Homosexual" is also pathologizing.
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  #477  
Old 10-13-2017, 06:15 PM
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Yeah the word in question that Deptford describes was popularized on SA back in the Helldump years (see also: cuck) and I doubt that's a legacy most users here want to celebrate
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  #478  
Old 10-13-2017, 06:53 PM
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I didn't turn on the show. I watched the first two episodes and stopped right there.
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  #479  
Old 10-13-2017, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onomarchus View Post
I disagree. "Autist" itself isn't pathologizing--it may have acquired a negative connotation, I guess--but "people with autism" is: when you say a "person with X," it means you have an independently formed person who has acquired a disease, in the way you say a person has a cold or depression.
Do not do this. Full stop.
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  #480  
Old 10-13-2017, 09:50 PM
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What the fuck is it about this show that makes people lose their god damn minds? This is an honest question, I've seen so many scorching hot takes that I don't even know how they found me to begin with about this show just by being on the Internet for the past week, and I am straight up Old And Confused by this.

I'm not trying to be flip about anything in this thread but someone using really shitty insensitive language, cause really dude?, but it's even happening in this very thread. What the hell is it about this television show?
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