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  #6481  
Old 07-24-2017, 08:57 AM
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Rewatching that train scene also reminded me:

Is there ever going to be a Spider-man movie where Peter remembers to keep his damn mask on?!*

*Note: I have not watched the Amazing Spider-man movies and am just going to treat them as if they don't exist.
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  #6482  
Old 07-24-2017, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deptford View Post
Still, great hero and villain as 'Characters' if not also as 'Action Scene Sparring Partners' do count for plenty, so I greatly enjoyed parts of it, and there were some quality laughs throughout too, even though I sometimes felt they were a bit too willing to sacrifice tone or theme or characterization for the sake of a quick gag. "I THOUGHT IT WAS THE ANTI-GRAVITY GUN" did get a laugh from me, but it also undermined his competence about the stuff he's supposed to be the professional grown-up, self-taught badass about, and also made it a bit harder to find him quite as scary in the scenes later on where he threatens to kill Peter and everyone he cares about, when the only other time he killed anybody was just a dumb wacky mistake with a punchline after it...so, WAS that laugh worth it in the long run?
To me, the characterization I took away from that was holy shit, this guy just threw someone's life away by accident; what a hard ass terrifying man
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  #6483  
Old 07-24-2017, 09:18 AM
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Rather than serious, I'd say the Raimi movies are earnest and grounded. But, I agree with Deptford's larger point. Homecoming is fluffy and light in comparison.

Westerhof said that the movie's lack of consequences is a moral judgement on Peter, and that his decision at the end is the payoff, but the more I think about it then less I like that. The movie clearly wants that to be the payoff, but it never does the work to get there. If they wanted to do that, the movie would actually have to make some moral judgments against Peter at some point. The only time it's critical of him is when Stark yells at him and takes his suit away after the Ferry scene. And instead of learning his lesson, Peter doubles down on disobeying Stark and putting himself in danger. And then Stark realizes that Peter was right all along and he is rewarded for doing the exact thing he was told not to do. And then he decides not to take the reward, but it's just something that happens instead of growing out of the lessons he learned.

Raimi's Parker was often punished even when he was doing the right thing. Homecoming's Parker is rewarded for everything he does, regardless of whether it's right or wrong. I still like Homecoming a lot because it's charming and fun as hell, but the way the movies and their worlds treat the main character is wildly different.
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  #6484  
Old 07-24-2017, 09:25 AM
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As Marvel Studios effectively owns Tom Holland's ass until he's 40, I'm confident that we're going to see Peter in more complex and difficult moral circumstances in later films. The light, fluffy nature of Homecoming was, I think, partially to serve as a palate cleanser after the dour Amazing Spider-Man 2, and also to firmly establish what Peter Parker is like on a good day before they start filling his calendar with really bad days.
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  #6485  
Old 07-24-2017, 09:37 AM
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Note that his good day still resulted in the implosion of his romantic life (also including his girlfriend's life), created several lifelong enemies out for his blood, and outed him as Spider-Man to most of the important people in his life (one of which can probably put the kibosh on it). And millions of dollars in property damage, various injuries, etc.

I mean, yeah, the movie didn't ruin Peter's life, but to say it didn't have consequences is sort of misleading. It just didn't fridge people for his character's 'benefit'.
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  #6486  
Old 07-24-2017, 09:56 AM
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I mean, point taken, but we're talking about Peter Parker here. When I say "a good day," I'm grading on a curve.
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  #6487  
Old 07-24-2017, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deptford View Post
I sometimes felt they were a bit too willing to sacrifice tone or theme or characterization for the sake of a quick gag. "I THOUGHT IT WAS THE ANTI-GRAVITY GUN" did get a laugh from me, but it also undermined his competence about the stuff he's supposed to be the professional grown-up, self-taught badass about, and also made it a bit harder to find him quite as scary in the scenes later on where he threatens to kill Peter and everyone he cares about, when the only other time he killed anybody was just a dumb wacky mistake with a punchline after it...so, WAS that laugh worth it in the long run?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady View Post
To me, the characterization I took away from that was holy shit, this guy just threw someone's life away by accident; what a hard ass terrifying man
Meanwhile, I took that moment as an early hint that the Vulture isn't pure evil since he wasn't actually planning on killing that guy, even if he's not going to beat himself up over it either.
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  #6488  
Old 07-24-2017, 02:58 PM
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I forget the exact word he used, but didn't he describe himself as a pragmatist? Seems like that fits pretty well with how that particular scene went down.
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  #6489  
Old Yesterday, 08:59 PM
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Small detail I picked up in my second viewing:

When Happy's doing inventory for Moving Day, he mentions a prtotype for Captain America's new shield. This is set post-Civil War. Why would Tony build or even design that?
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  #6490  
Old Yesterday, 09:06 PM
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I thought it was the one from Iron Man 2.
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  #6491  
Old Today, 01:28 AM
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I assumed he was working on it before they fell out, and you don't really throw out a Vibranium shield like an old Christmas card when you don't need it anymore.
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  #6492  
Old Today, 04:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juanfrugalj View Post
Small detail I picked up in my second viewing:

When Happy's doing inventory for Moving Day, he mentions a prtotype for Captain America's new shield. This is set post-Civil War. Why would Tony build or even design that?
I only heard "Cap's shield", not "new shield", so I assumed it was just the regular one, which Steve dropped at Tony's feet at the end of their fight.
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  #6493  
Old Today, 05:27 AM
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That's what I got on the first viewing, but now I heard the "new" part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Octopus Prime View Post
I assumed he was working on it before they fell out, and you don't really throw out a Vibranium shield like an old Christmas card when you don't need it anymore.
This seems the most likely explanation, but a man can dream.
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  #6494  
Old Today, 06:11 AM
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I suspect if there's a character wielding the shield at the beginning of Avengers 3, it's not Steve.
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  #6495  
Old Today, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juanfrugalj View Post
Small detail I picked up in my second viewing:

When Happy's doing inventory for Moving Day, he mentions a prtotype for Captain America's new shield. This is set post-Civil War. Why would Tony build or even design that?
Tony loves designing new outfits and weapons for the other Avengers. It probably gets his creative juices flowing for new Iron Man upgrades, but like Christmas presents, it's even more fun when you get to give them to other people. If you look at the timeline in Civil War, the only way it makes any sense is if he already had Spidey's suit mostly put together before he even had the idea to recruit Peter for the airport fight, and probably only had to add the focusing eyes once Peter explained why he wears the goggles. This is how jazzed he is to give people cool new toys.

He can't stand that he lost both his friends AND his hobby, so he is doggedly just continuing to churn out a classic Avengers armory as if they still had the full roster, all in the hopes that one day he and Steve can make out up and Tony can show him all the stuff he pulled a bunch of all-nighters designing when there were no villains to punch. He'll do it offhandedly, like he super doesn't care and like it was kind of a pain in the ass -- "anyway here's this shield, you can throw it at a guy if you want, and it'll save you scuffing up my dad's one" -- but he's secretly watching Steve's face for that little twinkle of gratitude in his eyes that he lives for

later, they get married and Tony designs their tuxes
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