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  #451  
Old 03-17-2017, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Red Hedgehog View Post
Sure, but in the elitist patrician racism way, not in the America should go back to being white way.
Uh.
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  #452  
Old 03-18-2017, 02:34 PM
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Sure, but in the elitist patrician racism way, not in the America should go back to being white way.
When civic pride makes your brain not work.
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  #453  
Old 03-19-2017, 05:44 PM
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Have you guys ever seen a little kid try to argue their way out of trouble, only to dig themselves deeper and deeper because they don't have the sense to keep their mouths shut?

I just don't know why, but I got reminded of that all of a sudden for some reason.
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  #454  
Old 03-19-2017, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by madhair60 View Post
FUCKIN INCREDIBLE.
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  #455  
Old 03-19-2017, 06:05 PM
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I refuse to actually watch Jontron talk but this is a pretty good summary of what happened:

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  #456  
Old 03-19-2017, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Loki View Post
On a recent episode Danny said that he'll watch old episodes and be surprised and embarrassed by what he said, but he also made the good point that they do a show where they have to talk and entertain constantly. I'm sympathetic to that pressure and how it can be difficult to self-moderate when you're in a creative flow.

That said, they definitely are Clueless White Guys who certainly aren't woke. I think, generally, they're nice dudes mostly who don't go out of their way to cause harm. I hope that someday they'll be more conscientious, but they haven't crossed any specific lines with me.
I like to think this of Arin as well. A genuinely nice person who doesn't want to hurt people. He has repeatedly apologized in the comments of his videos and seems genuinely remorseful when jokes he's made hurt and offend people. Along with Slowbeef's article I think another part of the problem is that he has terrible people in his ear. From Ross, to Markiplier, and to Reddit, which complicates the whole "clueless white guys" thing where he's not really taught or shown what hurts people. Same kinda goes for Danny, but it's complicated by the fact that I don't think he really realizes how privileged he's been in life, even compared to Arin.

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Originally Posted by McClain View Post
It kind of makes me think less about Barry and Arin that they aired that episode at all. Part of me wonders if they did it because they wanted to unload Jon, but it's still a questionable decision.
It's no real excuse, but Arin has said that he used to be "less confrontational." He probably both had no idea how to tell Jon "hey that wasn't fucking cool" and would've been too chickenshit to do it anyway.

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Originally Posted by BEAT View Post
slowbeef.txt
From all accounts I've heard, slowbeef is legit one of the nicest guys out there? He probably was physically incapable of not apologizing and explaining himself.
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  #457  
Old 03-20-2017, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Sigma View Post
I like to think this of Arin as well. A genuinely nice person who doesn't want to hurt people. He has repeatedly apologized in the comments of his videos and seems genuinely remorseful when jokes he's made hurt and offend people. Along with Slowbeef's article I think another part of the problem is that he has terrible people in his ear. From Ross, to Markiplier, and to Reddit, which complicates the whole "clueless white guys" thing where he's not really taught or shown what hurts people. Same kinda goes for Danny, but it's complicated by the fact that I don't think he really realizes how privileged he's been in life, even compared to Arin.
Ok, I gotta ask because I just recently started watching Markiplier videos but what make him a terrible person?
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  #458  
Old 03-20-2017, 04:09 PM
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Calling him "terrible" might be a little bit harsh (but I am a fan of hyperbole, so whatevs), but the most recent thing is that he and Ross and his wife Holly were all pewdiepie defenders.

He made a seven minute video and a text essay about respect but never once actually denounces the antisemitism, which means he either a) thinks the jokes were okay or b) is too much of a coward to actually call people out when they hurt people. Either way, it shows no actual god damn respect for people at all.

And Ross and Holly apparently think that what pewdiepie did was okay because he's "nice."

So fuck all of them tbh
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  #459  
Old 03-20-2017, 04:39 PM
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I already thought ross was a sociopath so this doesn't change my opinion of not watching anything involving him again.
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  #460  
Old 03-21-2017, 06:59 AM
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And no I take it back I actually do stand by calling markiplier terrible. He doesn't have to comment on every issue out there, but. Where was he talking about "respect" with Anita when she was getting death threats? With Zoe when she was being doxxed? That pewdiepie is the thing that finally made him find a hill to die on and talk about "respect" is very telling. That he chose to do it over someone being antisemitic and making impoverished people dance for his amusement is even more telling. I would posit that he only did it because if pewdiepie could be called out and have his livelihood threatened, than mark could have the same happen to him as well. But that's just me i dunno it's not like their content is that much different from each other
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  #461  
Old 03-21-2017, 02:49 PM
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Markiplier's schtick is "Pewdiepie but for kids whose parents monitor Youtube" and to my (limited) experience I've never seen or heard of him making hateful jokes, so I'm pretty sure his motivation is entirely cowardice. Which neatly envelops his defense of Pewdiepie and his refusal to defend anyone who might actually be harmed by roving internet lynch mobs.
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  #462  
Old 03-23-2017, 07:03 PM
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So I'm just now learning that JT recorded VA for Yooka-Laylee. VA that, thankfully, nobody will have to hear.

Quote:
"We recently became aware of comments made by voice artist JonTron after development on Yooka-Laylee had been completed," the firm told GamesIndustry.biz in a statement.

"JonTron is a talented video presenter who we were initially, two years ago, happy to include as a voice contributor in our game. However, in light of his recent personal viewpoints we have made the decision to remove JonTron's inclusion in the game via a forthcoming content update. We would like to make absolutely clear that we do not endorse or support JonTron's personal viewpoints and that, as an external fan contributor, he does not represent Playtonic in any capacity. Playtonic is a studio that celebrates diversity in all forms and strives to make games that everyone can enjoy. As such, we deeply regret any implied association that could make players feel anything but 100% comfortable in our game worlds, or distract from the incredible goodwill and love shown by our fans and Kickstarter backers."
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  #463  
Old 03-23-2017, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Vaeran View Post
Ahahahaha holy shit I didn't even know he had done voicework for this

That is excellent. Get fucked, JonTron <3
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  #464  
Old 03-24-2017, 09:58 AM
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It's really depressing to consider what kind of impact these Youtube LPers are having on a generation of kids. From GAF:

My 15 years old cousin was destroyed by JonTron beliefs

Quote:
I have a teen cousin who loves YouTube but mostly loves JonTron to death. I'm from Chile so english is not our language, but she loves videogames and JonTron so much she started to learn english when she was 10 thanks to his videos. She saw the Daikatana review with spanish subtitles made it by a fan in 2012 and she just exploded. I can't deny JonTron was fun at the time, I like his Banjo-Kazooie Nuts and Bolts review, so I was okay with this. I know JonTron is DEFINITELY not the best thing for a 10 years old, but I'm not her father.

She started to share her love for JonTron with her friends in school. She has a kind of innocent fanclub in her class. I'm pretty sure that her humor and taste in games were molded by this guy, specially because she loves retro games. She is 15 now and her english is pretty advanced for her age. I learned english thanks to videogames on the SNES era and I never had a proper english class at school (as you can see), so I feel kind of identified with her.

Today she came to my house and started to talk about the racist stuff. She shares her love for videogames with me because I'm the nerd of the family and her parents aren't very involved in her hobby honestly. She saw the Destiny debate, and she didn't understand too much about what they were talking about (there are some english words that she still doesn't understand well), but she was shocked because she understand that Jon was talking "ugly stuff" and people in the Destiny chat were mocking him.

I started to explain to her about the situation. It was hard... she of course understand what racism is and all that, but she was not ready for hear JonTron talking shit about race and white supremacy.

She started to cry. She cried a lot.

"Why he doesn't like people different to him"
"Why he hates people from his own country"
"Why he hates black people"

We are not from the US, so I tried to explain to her (in the most easiest way possible) the political situation of the country. Definitely something in her died today. It was a call to reality. She will talk about this in her class for sure tomorrow.
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  #465  
Old 03-24-2017, 05:00 PM
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We all got to kill our heroes sometimes.

It's a shame because his review of FFXIII is still one of my favorite things ever, but he's clearly crossing the line from "Guy who makes entertaining things I enjoyed" to "Guy who won't stop letting his shitty politics and gender beliefs infect his persona".

I've seen it happen enough times that I'm pretty much ambivalent about it now. Just unsubscribed from his channel though. So I won't get notifications when he doesn't update it anymore.

I still think Arin and Danny are genuinely nice people though. Even if their ramblings sometimes veer off into off-color land. They seem honest and humble when they discuss it, and smart enough to back off if they get the feeling that they're really upsetting people.

I tend to watch Game Grumps almost exclusively via animated bits and "best of" compliations though, so I don't wade through a lot of the chaff.
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  #466  
Old 03-24-2017, 05:14 PM
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I had a dream last night where Jontron was actually a creeper on this forum, and when he read this thread he was angry but started to rethink his ways.
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  #467  
Old 03-25-2017, 06:00 AM
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Jontron isn't racist, just an idiot. I see the point he was trying to make - he's trying to argue that white people almost exclusively are being held accountable for the state of America (and the UK I guess) but that it's taboo to hold other cultures within our country or in other countries to the same standard (like the accountability of african americans for their high representation in the US prison population as opposed to prejudices in law enforcement*). I absolutely think that's true. It's totally okay to blame straight white people for everything wrong with America and totally taboo to blame other cultures for anything. Am I itching to flip the switch and start blaming chinese people for my health insurance being bad, or whatever? No, but the double standard is still there. I think it's perfectly fair to point that out.

But race is an incredibly tricky minefield, and Jontron is hecka stupid, so when he realized the other guy was way more articulate and better informed than him and he was starting to sound like he didn't know what the fuck he was talking about, he panicked and started citing batshit statistics he half-remembered from some articles he probably read somewhere, hoping to poke a hole in arguments nobody was making so he could still hopefully come out on top. Yeah it's fun to pick apart all this weird crap about a "demographically pure country"(???), but at the end of the day, let's remember that Jontron is the son of two immigrants and he clearly believes there's something to that. (I think he was trying to suggest that every non-white person in America should stop identifying as any other culture and just be one uniform thing (like Japan???) so we won't even have a reason to have this argument anymore, which is some hella sophomoric John Lennon garbage, but it's not racist.)

As for Yooka-Laylee, it sucks that Jontron lost that, but at the end of the day Playtonic isn't obliged to take that bullet for him.

*I pulled this example from Jontron's actual argument, I'm not trying to imply anything. Do not try to extrapolate my beliefs on law enforcement from this.
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  #468  
Old 03-25-2017, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy View Post
Jontron isn't racist, just an idiot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonTron, racist idiot
Wealthy blacks also commit more crime than poor whites. That’s a fact. Look it up.
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  #469  
Old 03-25-2017, 09:59 AM
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Default Also this whole thing was set off by JonTron defending Steve King, so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy View Post
Jontron isn't racist, just an idiot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonTron, noted racist
In historically white countries, it is seen as a moral imperative that whites don't resist their own displacement. If they resist it, they're racist. You can see this in every white country on planet earth. The status quo thinks that the only logical conclusion to the country, to atone for the sins of the white past is to keep letting in people from the third world until white people are a minority.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonTron, actual racist
[Whites] are not being killed, they're being displaced. You are the same guy who says that Europeans displaced the native Americans but apparently, when other people do it to white Americans, it's okay because fuck white people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonTron, literal racist
Why is it when the Chinese were trying to colonize Tibet, why was that a "Save Tibet" situation but when it's white people... I'm using an analogy to try to give a parallel situation so you can see the hypocrisy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonTron, infamous racist
It's clear that whites are not allowed to speak up against their demographic oblivion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonTron, genuine racist
In terms of a demographic majority, I don't think a nation can exist without one. This truly multicultural every single person is a different race or religion. I don't know if that's really sustainable long term.
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  #470  
Old 03-25-2017, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy View Post
Jontron isn't racist, just an idiot.
These things are in no way mutually exclusive. You might even say they are often related!
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  #471  
Old 03-25-2017, 02:32 PM
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The idea that racism is borne of outright cartoonish villainy and not through ignorance and stupidity is perhaps the most pernicious contributor to racism's continued existence.
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  #472  
Old 03-25-2017, 03:57 PM
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Sure, but I also think that it's possible for a person to be wrong, outrageously wrong even, about race without necessarily being a racist, and pulling that card every time someone says something you don't agree with is childish. I give serious props to that Destiny guy for keeping a cool head and rationally explaining to Jon why everything he was saying was bullshit instead of playing that card. Besides, Jontron has come out and explained that what he said during that twitch debate while he was flustered wasn't an accurate portrayal of what he believes, and I believe him. If you don't, then I don't think I'm going to change your mind.
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  #473  
Old 03-25-2017, 04:13 PM
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Saying something racially insensitive one time does not make you "a racist."

Saying racist things over and over again and doubling down and blaming PC culture and the word police for your downfall? Sorry, but he's a racist.

Quote:
pulling that card every time someone says something you don't agree with is childish
it's not that we "don't agree with" it. It's not a political opinion. It's fucking racist.
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  #474  
Old 03-25-2017, 04:14 PM
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Being outrageously wrong about race is kind of the textbook ideal of being a racist. Further clarifying his positions won't make them any less reprehensible

I feel like measured, calm 2016 teg would have made a stronger case for "Jon Says Racist Things" rather than "Jon Is A Racist," but done-with-this-shit 2017 teg is tired of giving guys like Jon the benefit of that distinction when the end result is the same either way. Let's say Jon is just a moron and not a dyed-in-the-wool racist... who cares? He's still gonna say the exact same terrible shit he already says. I still don't wanna sit next to him on the bus. I definitely don't like the idea of millions of kids watching him. I'm gonna sit around and play Schroedinger's Racist to figure out if he's worth my time or not.
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  #475  
Old 03-25-2017, 04:16 PM
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Like wine, anger is an excellent way for people to express their real feelings. It strips away all masks we wear for polite society and reveals our true core.

So if someone says something "regrettable" in a moment of anger or frustration, they're only revealing themselves.
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  #476  
Old 03-25-2017, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teg View Post
Being outrageously wrong about race is kind of the textbook ideal of being a racist.
Well, I don't agree with that! Peace out
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  #477  
Old 03-25-2017, 04:18 PM
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He has an audience of young people who think he's a cool adult. When he others non-whites and treats it like a joke for massive youtube profits I have no fucking patience or sympathy. Yeah, if I'm arguing with a relative I will stick to saying something is racially insensitive calmly and not try to just call them "A Racist," but when you are a influence you will he held to a higher standard. and this is not a fucking isolated incident. It's a pattern. He's a racist.
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  #478  
Old 03-25-2017, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy View Post
Sure, but I also think that it's possible for a person to be wrong, outrageously wrong even, about race without necessarily being a racist
I am so sick and fucking tired of hearing people continuously narrow down the already-pretty-fucking-narrow list of things that are acceptable to consider racism.
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  #479  
Old 03-25-2017, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teg View Post
Being outrageously wrong about race is kind of the textbook ideal of being a racist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy View Post
Well, I don't agree with that! Peace out
sorry you are so outrageously wrong about racism.
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  #480  
Old 03-25-2017, 05:08 PM
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Well, he's right. It is absolutely possible.

I would however say that Jontron is not a case of that. It's not an isolated incident. Sure, he's pigshit thick, but that's not really an excuse for the horrific shit he's been saying.
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