The Return of Talking Time

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  #451  
Old 06-18-2017, 07:57 AM
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Ironically, the class level system they introduced (All members of the same class share level ups) creates new grinding problems in which new classes have to be trained for a while before becoming worthwhile.
Huh. this sounds a lot like Valkyria Chronicles.
"WHY CAN'T MY SNIPERS HIT ANYTHING!?"
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  #452  
Old 06-18-2017, 08:03 AM
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Thanks for the suggestions regarding battle systems similar to FFX. I had completely forgotten about that Mega Man RPG... Guess what game didn't even made it into my preliminar list?

That said, I didn't vote for Tactics Ogre because the remake, as good as it was, wasn't entirely different to the original. I'm glad Talking Time thought otherwise, though, because it is an amazing game. Almost makes me forgive you all for not voting for Life is Strange. Almost.

The most memorable moment in TO for me was at the end of Chapter 1. I had heard that Archers were very valuable and almost overpowered and, frankly, I didn't think they were that broken. And then comes this level that has you climbing down a slope while dealing with enemies below you... My squad was reasonably strong and had no problem wiping out anything between them and the bottom. But when we got to the end of the stage a second battle began where enemies spawned *above* me and my team had to climb out... and the enemy squad does have archers. My squad being massacred finally convinced me that, yes, hav¡ng archers in high ground is half of any battle.
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  #453  
Old 06-18-2017, 08:23 AM
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I played Nocturne back in 05 or 6 and didn't have that good a time with it, though I did see it through (I think I got magatama that made me immune to everything except almighty or something like that?). I didn't like that there were random encounters in the towns, I found the graphics sterile, I don't think I fused much. In short, I think I didn't get it. I wonder if I'd enjoy it more now, having played some other games in the series and knowing better how it works.

I had Tactics Ogre at #3. It probably got a bump from the fact that I just finished playing it a few days ago after 120-130 hours. And there was a lot of stuff I didn't do. It's massive, complicated, and thoroughly engaging. Each of the main paths through the game is interesting and reveals different aspects of the story and characters. The way you play the game also influences the story to a lesser extent. Building your team is very satisfying. I was going to grumble about a couple of the narrative choices, in particular how Barbas goes from almost a comic relief character, shooting his own guy by accident and accidentally insulting himself, to almost the main villain, but I just now realised he remains consistent as a screwup reaching for more power than he can grasp, so no complaint there. That said, it is a major cop-out that at the start of the law path a bunch of Galgastani soldiers show up for you to fight instead of participating directly in the massacre. Not that I wanted to participate. The start of neutral where you massacre prisoners, while unpleasant, better serves the narrative.

After I finished the game I was looking at the wheel of characters image (the first one in Issun's post). It makes sense that all the characters in it are there, but where is the real hero of the game, Arycelle?
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  #454  
Old 06-18-2017, 08:52 AM
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I've never played Tactics Ogre (curse you, Sony portable exclusives), but mmmm, more Sakamoto.


I also haven't played Nocturne - like lots of SMT for me, I'm intrigued by its aesthetics and setting but not sure I'd really want to deal with the gameplay these days. I did read a bunch of an LP for it once (I think Zef's?) and that was cool.
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  #455  
Old 06-18-2017, 09:55 AM
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Ugh, it gets worse for me. Nocturne is actually on my "worst games of all times" list. It seemed really promising at first. A horror / RPG hybrid seemed perfect for me. But then it introduced an annoying monster-catching mechanism which I just hated because of its complexity, but what's even worse was the ridiculous difficulty. I catched exactly those demons recommended in a guide and grinded for hours and still couldn't even beat the first boss (Matador). I never played an SMT title before and got this one because people said it's the best when I asked, but nope, I pretty much realized that the SMT series is not for me. Though I gave it a second try with Persona 3, but again the dungeon design was so bland, it just hurt my game designer heart so much. They got the right settings down, just wish they had a proper game designer.

No opinion on Tactics Ogre.
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  #456  
Old 06-18-2017, 10:58 AM
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Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together was my #8! Galadrome covered just about all of it, but I want to touch on just why I love the game's story so much.

The thrust of the game's story is that actions have consequences— especially unforeseen ones. Denam— and the player— effect the story, but at not point does it feel like they're controlling it. Instead, they're just as swept up in events as everyone else, constantly fighting to pull themselves above it, but it's a futile struggle.

I think this comes across mostly clearly in Denam's own arc. He's motivated by a need to control his own destiny, but his rise from country bumpkin to something more— meteoric even by the standards of the genre— more often comes from pure circumstance rather than his own effort, and he's often filled with a certain reluctance because of it.

That said, I've only played the Law route (and got the Lord ending), so maybe it differs on Chaos. I really, really ought to go back and play Chaos at some point…

Last edited by conchobhar; 06-18-2017 at 04:33 PM.
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  #457  
Old 06-18-2017, 02:50 PM
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I made a few (many) typos but I'd like to clarify that the MOVE name translations in Nocturne are fine, it's their descriptions that are eeeeeeeh
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  #458  
Old 06-18-2017, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galadrome View Post
I made a few (many) typos but I'd like to clarify that the MOVE name translations in Nocturne are fine, it's their descriptions that are eeeeeeeh
I think both your contributions so far have been pretty great!
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  #459  
Old 06-18-2017, 06:00 PM
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I have secret dreams of Tactics Ogre coming to the Switch. Please, Square-Enix?

I have Nocturne! Haven't touched it yet, though.
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  #460  
Old 06-18-2017, 08:10 PM
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I had Civ 5 at #6. While I have fewer hours with 5 than i do with 4, I think 5 is probably the best the game has been. the big difference of 5 is the hexes and single units per hex. It did finally eliminate the Stack of Doom and I think 5 does a lot to reduce the amount of micro management that's needed. The unique abilities of the civs in 5 are fun and thematic. Its a sure fire way to make sure I'm up way too late playing games.

I don't know much about Journey.

I've played a persona game (some of 3 and 4) but that's as far into SMT that I've gone.

I've heard of Tactics Ogre games, but never played any.
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  #461  
Old 06-18-2017, 08:31 PM
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I would have picked Tactics Ogre, but I haven't played the remake to know what's good about it vs the original (which is still one of my all-time favorites).

Nocturne was kinda high up on my list. I already forget how high, but high enough. It's probably my favorite PS2 RPG when I think about it, and definitely my favorite SMT game in general.
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  #462  
Old 06-19-2017, 03:04 AM
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Originally Posted by WildcatJF View Post
I have secret dreams of Tactics Ogre coming to the Switch. Please, Square-Enix?

I have Nocturne! Haven't touched it yet, though.
tbh I want every game to come out on the Switch
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  #463  
Old 06-19-2017, 05:58 AM
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I can't remember how much Civ V I've played... it's at least 30 hours. Maybe around 40? It doesn't seem like I've played it nearly enough.
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  #464  
Old 06-19-2017, 06:45 AM
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I ranked Nocturne high. It's untouchable in the context of its own series in terms of featuring the demons front and center, and that's what made me care about SMT in the first place. Such confidence in an aesthetic and direction.

I bounce off of strategy RPGs hard, but even then Let Us Cling Together is extremely compelling. I wish I was able to stick with it.
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  #465  
Old 06-19-2017, 07:06 AM
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I have a love/hate relationship with the TO remake. The original is one of my favorite games, ever. The remake is largely amazing, but I hate pretty much everything they did to the mechanics. Rather than sanding off the flaws of the original game, their "solutions" add a bunch of new ones, often not doing anything to address the problem they were allegedly supposed to fix. Don't get me started on the AI, or the skill system, or crafting, or the weapon balance, or the way "anchor points" and the optional content in the post game works, or the fact that it's mechanically the worst tactical RPG I've ever played for 300+ hours.

Yeah, I don't get it either.
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  #466  
Old 06-19-2017, 07:08 AM
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I've never played Nocturne or Tactics Ogre (past the first 10 minutes, anyway), but I would like to some day. One of those games is portable, so it has a much higher chance of happening than the other one...
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  #467  
Old 06-19-2017, 07:19 AM
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None of the past four games have been on my list, but Journey has been on my "must play this" list since it came out.

I only first experienced the SMT series recently, and I'm still on my way through SMT IV. I love it, but it didn't make it to my list - but it probably would be after I'm done with it.
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  #468  
Old 06-19-2017, 08:59 AM
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I kept procrastinating/forgetting about writing something up for Tactics Ogre, but here are some other cool things about the remake:

- The Chariot Tarot, which lets you rewind time in battle, up to 50 turns (though that includes enemies' turns). It doesn't change the outcome if you try the same action again, so it's not completely cheap. IIRC, there's no actual penalty, but the game does keep track of when you've used it, so I always tried not to, but it's a good thing to have available to you.

- The World Tarot, which allows you to go back and forth to certain points in the game (which is represented with a branching timeline), and go through the different story routes. This system is at times confusing, frustrating, and/or janky, but it's much better than playing the whole game multiple times, especially since this enables you to recruit all of the characters from every route in the same playthrough.

- The maps were all recreated in 3D, so you can change the camera angles, but still made to look like the original graphics. I just think that was really cool.

I never got more than halfway through Tactics Ogre (or, for that matter, Final Fantasy Tactics) on PS1, but I put 200+ hours into this version, and didn't even get through all the optional stuff.

Oh, on the other hand, though, the 'escort missions' in this game are the absolute worst. Just awful.


Quote:
Civilization V
Shit...I haven't played enough of Civ V, but I really should have had Civ III on my list.
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  #469  
Old 06-19-2017, 10:03 AM
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#30


Game sales are way up!

Developer: Nintendo R&D 1
Publisher: Nintendo
Platforms: Game Boy Advance
Release: March 21, 2003 (JP), May 23, 2003 (EU), May 26, 2003 (NA), June 6,
2003 (AU)
176 Points, 8 Votes, Highest Rank: #7 (Karzac)



Warioware, Inc.: Mega Microgame$! is twitch gameplay distilled as far down to its essence as you can get without being two dots on a screen. Each stage is a gauntlet of 5 second games and that's really it. But the execution and variety of minigames is astounding. You start with catch/dodge/jump/smoosh and continue to do so but it never gets tiresome. Extremely difficult, yes, but never tiresome.

A big part of this is how colorful and engaging everything is. The music is simple yet catchy, the characters are wonderfully ridiculous, the animations, simple as they are, still pop. Warioware, Inc. is gaming at its most basic, and it proves that games can be plenty fun without all the trappings.

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  #470  
Old 06-19-2017, 10:04 AM
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#29


We are born of the blood, made men by the blood, undone by the blood.

Developer: From Software
Publisher: Sony Computer Entertainment
Platforms: Playstation 4
Release: March 24, 2015 (NA), March 25, 2015 (EU), March 26, 2016 (JP)
177 Points, 8 Votes, Highest Rank: #2 (Doctor Nerd)




The "Borne" part of the Soulsborne series was an attempt to inject something different into a series that had previously focused exclusively on fantasy settings. That was not the only change, of course, only the most notable. Besides the Gothic setting, Bloodborne also honed the combat into something much faster paced (and much more difficult as a result). Also it added more blood. So much blood. All the blood.

I kid a bit. We still aren't talking Mortal Kombat levels of gore. The blood was more to emphasize the unsettling nature of the environments than for cheap thrills, even though the environments are already unsettling enough. It also gives you even less direction than its predecessors, something before thought not possible. There is no grand intro about dragons and gods, no. Instead, a grizzled old man tells you about a contract and then sends you on your merry way to get immediately slaughtered by a hellbeast.

It's well known that these games aren't for everyone, and Bloodborne is perhaps the least accessible of all of them. It's still an important installment in a series beloved by fans and feared by everyone else.

Doctor Nerd also has this to say:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Nerd
There's a lot I can gush about with regards to Bloodborne. What stands out the most to me, though, is the setting of Yarnham itself, which is one of the most incredibly-realized fictional cities I've seen depicted in a game. Think of a nightmarish Prague, or Victorian London, except on the scale of the Tower of Babel. It's a world filled with enormous spires and cathedrals that crowd you from every angle, making it seem as though the city itself could swallow you up at any point.

In addition, this oppressive landscape is filled with incredibly bizarre and gruesome creatures inspired by Junji Ito, H.P. Lovecraft, and Kentaro Miura. Bloodborne is laser-focused on all of the things lead designer Hidetaka Miyazaki loves: gothic architecture, turn of the century Weird Fiction, and bizarre dream logic narratives.

The game also has fast, challenging combat, with a variety of multi-functional weapons and tools. There are very few games I can think of that let you smack around beasts with one of the shrunken limbs of an interdimensional monster god. Add into this mix fantastically layered level design, and you have a strong contender for one of my favorite games of the last decade.
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  #471  
Old 06-19-2017, 10:25 AM
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I love seeing both of these at the same. Both great games, and in totally different ways.
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  #472  
Old 06-19-2017, 10:26 AM
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I'm honestly pretty surprised to see that Warioware made the list, let alone made it so highly.

It's fun as sh*cks, but the only time I think of it at all is when I see it when browsing my game folder.
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  #473  
Old 06-19-2017, 11:01 AM
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I'm not sure Warioware would have made my top 25 list.

I'm not sure if it should have.

But damn if it isn't a great game.
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  #474  
Old 06-19-2017, 11:06 AM
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Warioware I had on my list at No. 19!

I picked up just before a vacation my family took to Quebec in the early aughts. It was the game I picked up for the trip, and played it in between walks through Quebec City (which is gorgeous, btw). I was also reading the fifth Harry Potter book at the time, and all of those things wrap together for a very strongly positive association.

It helps that the game is actually really good, too. My favorite stages were Nine-Volt's, because of all the vintage Nintendo fanservice. I learned about several of Nintendo's pre-Famicom gadgets from those games, too!

I found the music in Dribble and Spitz's stage, "Drifting Away," to be strangely comforting.

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  #475  
Old 06-19-2017, 11:14 AM
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Wario Ware is great, Twisted is even better, then the series went completely off the rails. The Gamecube one is excellent multi tho
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  #476  
Old 06-19-2017, 11:35 AM
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I played like one warioware game for a few minutes. I don't get it. My brother really liked it though.

I own Bloodborne but I haven't cracked it open yet. I really liked what I played of Dark Souls. I liked the slow pacing though, so I'm not sure I'm going to like Bloodborne as much. I watched a guy play it at MAGfest and it looked really good, so I'm looking forward to giving it a try.
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  #477  
Old 06-19-2017, 11:42 AM
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nocturne and warioware (the gamecube version of this one, probably, it's the one i have the most attachment to) are probably the two closest things that didn't make my list. as a whole i'd consider warioware my favorite nintendo series and i think it's brilliant in all kinds of ways. even so, i guess i just felt it came a bit short of being personally magical the night i was making this list. nocturne ended up in a similar position, i really enjoy it and think it's got a lot of smt's highest points overall, but it just doesn't make me feel the same way as some of the other games (which i'll refrain from naming now even though i doubt they'll place and probably plenty of people know which ones). i'm glad that it is That Game for some people though

bloodborne just barely made the cut for me in the other direction. it's fairly fun, even if it doesn't really address most of the things i dislike about souls combat, and the art direction and everything is way more my style. plus it's way fucking shorter than dark souls 1 and 2 (i didn't play 3, but i'd still assume that's similar).

and there's lots and lots of blood. i'm here for that
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  #478  
Old 06-19-2017, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dracula View Post
I found the music in Dribble and Spitz's stage, "Drifting Away," to be strangely comforting.
It's some of the all-time greatest video game music if you ask me. My high score on that stage is 111. It's the only stage I've played nearly enough to get a score that high, and it has everything to do with the bizarrely compelling synergy between the gameplay and that song.
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  #479  
Old 06-19-2017, 11:56 AM
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Not on my list, but that WarioWare Smooth Moves game for Wii was pretty good. I'd be willing to put it in my top 50 at least. Never played the GBA version, though. Can't imagine how it would even work without Wii Remote or Touchscreen.

Bloodborne I only watched a Let's Play as I'm not so much into intentionally hard games. Nice world building at least, but definitely not for me.
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  #480  
Old 06-19-2017, 11:57 AM
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Bloodborne is the first game I voted for to make the list. I think, think it's got the best story/plot/setting/lore of the Souls series (I hate "Soulsborne." God, so dumb). The narrative is so intricate, so cohesive, and paced so well that it's the standard that I'll forever judge all Gothic and Lovecraftian horror by.
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