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  #1  
Old 09-11-2017, 01:39 AM
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Default Talking about The Orville, it's like Star Trek, but starring Assholes

So Seth MacFarlane's Star Trek parody/satire/homage/rip-off/whateveritwas premiered last night and.... ehhhhh it was fine I suppose?

Overall I got the impression that it's not quite sure what to do with itself. It's not quite Star Trek-y enough to be a proper Star Trek homage, and it's not comedic enough to be a full-on Seth MacFarlane comedy. It's like it was playing it safe on both fronts. Though between the two I'd say it actually leans more into the Star Trek side of things, honestly.

It wasn't as dire as I was dreading it would be, at least, though there was more than a few juvenile jokes. Hell, the very first scene has an alien ejaculation joke, but I got to admit it did force a laugh out of me in spite of myself. Some of the jokes when MacFarlane's character was introducing himself to his crew were cringey though. (also holy shit that's Kasidy Yates from DS9 as the ship's doctor!)

The space battle later in the episode was alright, and the ground battle did feel appropriately Trekky. Overall I'd give it a rating of 'not bad'. I'll probably keep watching for now. Who knows? Maybe this show will scratch my itch for more 90's style Trek, while Discovery does its own thing?

Last edited by SpoonyBardOL; 09-11-2017 at 02:43 AM.
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  #2  
Old 09-11-2017, 03:18 AM
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Yeah, it was fine. Made me miss that short lived Star Trek parody Yahoo made starring the cab driver from Deadpool, the gal from the AT&T commercials and one of the MST3K dudes. A veritable who?'s who? of stars.

James Franco showed up in the second episode as the crew member they all forgot about, but it turned out he was a space parasite or something and was giving them all false memories so they threw him out of an airlock.
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Old 09-11-2017, 06:59 AM
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I liked Outer Space, too!

I don't think I'll see this, but I'm glad it's fine.
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Old 09-11-2017, 07:55 AM
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Man, fine is being generous. I mean, it is watchable and doesn't induce cringing, but that's damning with the faintest of praise.

The comedy isn't very funny. The science fiction isn't very interesting. Even with those failures, it didn't balance either very well. Both as a comedy and a science fiction story, it is almost implausibly generic. Like what a character in a fictional TV show would point to as a generic science fiction TV show. And a character's story starting with finding his wife in bed with someone else is extremely tired.

Tonally it is bizarre, if only in how dull it is. The special effects also didn't justify the glory shot of the ship with no punchline or pay-off. The must have though things were going to look a lot better in post, instead of "at least its not Babylon 5" CG effects.

Storywise, it wasn't that great either. The act breaks were also bizarre in how generic they are. Usually, that's a good time for a twist but instead it comes down to "Oh, no, someone got the drop on our heroes with the gun." The way the characters used the time device is serviceable, but I would have preferred if maybe they either were presented as more of fuck-ups at first, used the time speed up device on themselves, giving themselves the time to get their act together to defeat the faux Romulans. Or they shoot it at the planet and the planet is given 100 years in a few seconds to exceed their technology so that they can help defeat the baddies... only for our heroes to find that there's been a lot of political and societal change in what was once an R & D outpost and now they are a full country looking for independence. But I suppose that's just me.

I could see this as a show that becomes good down the line, when it finally decides what the heck it wants to be. So maybe I'll check back if it makes some "American Dad"-style course correction sometime in the future. For now it seems like a shrug of a show.
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Old 09-11-2017, 09:31 AM
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What I've heard suggests that this show is more of a simple Star Trek rip off homage than a parody. I read an interview where MacFarlane said he wanted to do optimistic sci-fi, which would sound great if I had any faith he could pull it off to any reasonable degree. That said, I'll check out a few episodes and give it a chance.
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Old 09-11-2017, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Rascally Badger View Post
What I've heard suggests that this show is more of a simple Star Trek rip off homage than a parody.
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Originally Posted by jpfriction View Post
James Franco showed up in the second episode as the crew member they all forgot about, but it turned out he was a space parasite or something and was giving them all false memories so they threw him out of an airlock.
This is literally a storyline from both TNG and Rick and Morty.

I think that making their own twist on existing ideas is fine (Simpsons did it!), but I would have hoped they'd be able to make it to at least halfway through the season before resorting to dipping into that well.
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Old 09-11-2017, 11:04 AM
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This is literally a storyline from both TNG and Rick and Morty.

I think that making their own twist on existing ideas is fine (Simpsons did it!), but I would have hoped they'd be able to make it to at least halfway through the season before resorting to dipping into that well.
TOS, TNG, and Star Trek in general has liberally lifted its plots from older sci-fi and popular literature for its entire existence. Everybody reuses ideas; it's an inescapable part of writing. It's obviously not ideal but it seems dishonest or at least lacking perspective to damn a show this early for such a thing. It's also worth noting that it's been 30 years since TNG started. I have no problem with a show recycling theme and plot lines at this point, in order to make a new show for an audience that either doesn't remember Star Trek, or are feeling nostalgic about it

Star Trek also took entire seasons to find its legs as well so I'm going to be giving this and Discovery ample time to figure things out. I wouldn't expect everyone to have that kind of patience, but I adore Star Trek, and anything that pays homage to it, so I feel extra invested in this since we never get shows like this anymore.
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Old 09-11-2017, 03:40 PM
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I was also talking about an entirely different show. I think it predated the Rick and Morty ep.

Edit: the storyline worked really well in Other Space because it was only the second episode and the new crew member was introduced pretty believably "oh crap we forgot about the sub deck crew".
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Old 09-11-2017, 03:45 PM
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Other Space... I'd forgotten the name. Very who-y indeed.
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Old 09-11-2017, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by jpfriction View Post
Yeah, it was fine. Made me miss that short lived Star Trek parody Yahoo made starring the cab driver from Deadpool, the gal from the AT&T commercials and one of the MST3K dudes. A veritable who?'s who? of stars.
Fourth who: Eugene Cordero, who plays the hot-but-dumb Filipino guys' (new stereo/archetype) co-worker/friend in Crazy Ex-Girlfriend/The Good Place. In Other Space... he is the hot guy. Twist!

Also, it was actually Dave Franco. When we collaborate, we can learn so much about short-lived web series. Amazing.
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Old 09-11-2017, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by NavelsAreNeat View Post
Fourth who: Eugene Cordero, who plays the hot-but-dumb Filipino guys' (new stereo/archetype) co-worker/friend in Crazy Ex-Girlfriend/The Good Place. In Other Space... he is the hot guy. Twist!

Also, it was actually Dave Franco. When we collaborate, we can learn so much about short-lived web series. Amazing.
I was 50/50 on which Franco it was and could not be arsed to look it up. IIRC he didn't do much in the episode other than smirk and die.

It is important that over half the posts in this thread be me and Navels talking about the wrong show.
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Old 09-11-2017, 04:06 PM
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hi i'm dumb and thought jp was literally talking about the second episode of orville
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  #13  
Old 09-12-2017, 05:50 AM
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Which he had gotten a special sneak preview of?
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Old 09-12-2017, 05:58 AM
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Ep was so so. But frame work was good. I like how straight it played it. Needs to follow it's Galaxy Quest spirit animal more.
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Old 09-12-2017, 07:50 AM
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I actually found myself very much enjoying the first episode, despite habitual skepticism and picking apart the episode in my head mercilessly. Like Chud said, the framework was very solid. Unlike Chud, I don't feel it necessarily needs to ramp up the parody or corn. As a piece of very carefully considered homage, it works splendidly. It's a bit rough around the edges, but I look forwards to when it finds its footing and groove.

The comedy surprisingly wasn't awful. A lot of the more subtle jokes centered around awkward moments hit well and even got a laugh or two out of me. When the show aimed for punchlines it usually missed. Hopefully they go more for the former and less for the latter as the show goes on. And what I also found myself enjoying (if only in theory and not necessarily in this episode's execution) was the workplace banter that was something I always found sorely missing from Star Trek in general. And the quick, under-the-breath jabs at the core ideas of Star Trek also got big smiles from me. Paraphrasing, "Considering how big our quadrant of the Galaxy is, 3,000 ships doesn't seem like enough..."

Something I also enjoyed in theory, but not necessarily execution, was the tension between the divorced Captain and First Officer. Which at times dragged scenes and made the characters seem way more petty than they probably were. Hopefully this first episode was just getting the baggage/idea establishment out of the way so that they can have a more normal working relationship later on. There was a genuinely good moment where Seth MacFarlane's character is complaining about a battle wound, and his First Officer brutally deconstructs his behavioral pattern in order to keep him honest and the mission on track/focused. It showed the potential of such a combo, and I assume was the intent of that pairing to begin with. I very much got the feeling that while developing Orville, Seth MacFarlane wanted to include the Decker/Ilia, Riker/Troi dynamic into Orville, but actually have it mean something this time and affect things.

The slavish devotion to emulating the style of 80s-90s Trek was actually impressive. Little things from how absurd the gun fights were (firing phasers in bold, heroic poses; running away in straight lines; etc) to the particular blend of instruments in the orchestral background music, to the effervescent omnidirectional bright lighting that left no shadows on the floor, to the hilariously obvious re-purposing of contemporary buildings into location sets.

I also like what appears to be the core nature of the show: which is to show an unexemplary, average Starship filled with a flawed crew, instead of the BEST OF THE BEST that Star Trek usually focuses on. Like, how would a Starship that would have been nameless wreckage in a Borg assault have carried out its daily missions. The cast seems like it was very intentionally designed to be full of characters that either have personal limitations that hold them back from reaching their full potential, or fatal flaws in their personalities that would disqualify them from ever getting a prestigious assignment on board a Star Trek ship.

My biggest concern/critique that I don't know can be easily fleshed out through some tweaking, is the Captain character. He's kinda just Seth MacFarlane being Seth MacFarlane. And while he looks and comports himself as a captainly character, it's not at all evident in the first episode why he's a captain or has the capacity to be one at all. Every first episode of Star Trek does a great job of establishing the quintessential character of the Captain, and demonstrating to the audience why they have the temperament, judgment, and capabilities that demand command and respect. And in Orville, MacFarlane is just kinda... there. We hear why he should be captain from several testimonials from other characters that would know, but we never see him really take charge of a situation or decide a course of action in any way that would have left me and I imagine a lot of viewers impressed. And maybe part of that is due to the character's life circumstances (he's still in the process of piecing his life together) and we'll see that better later, but it would have been nice to get better hints of that in the beginning. The only thing that seemed captainly of him, was his ability to delegate, but it didn't necessarily come across as being the calculated decisions of a leader during this episode, and more the kind of panicked reactions of a guy not fully in control of things, as if to say "I-I-I dunno, you handle it!"

So we'll see where things go from here. I also liked the little twist in the end of the pilot too. Maybe the show will fail to find its footing, or to break past homage to find its own way, or just be very unfunny. But it's got enough going for it that I'll give it patience and a good chance figure out what to do with itself.

Oh, what's the synopsis of the 2nd episode? "Alara must take command of the Orville when Ed and Kelly end up imprisoned in a replica of their old home." O-oh... maybe this will take quite a while.
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:26 AM
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Which he had gotten a special sneak preview of?
This is the implication of what I said, yes.
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Old 09-12-2017, 11:34 AM
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Saw the first ep and agree generally with the rest of the thread - it's more homage than parody, and when it goes straight for punch-lines it's just not very funny. But when it's just being "Star Trek, but allowed to be goofy", it can be pretty decent. We'll see where it ends up. Undecided right now whether I'll try to keep up with it or wait for reactions further down the line...

Also is it just me or does the dude playing the robot somehow sound exactly like Brent Spiner?

Also Alara is super cute tho

Last edited by Kirin; 09-12-2017 at 11:49 AM.
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Old 09-13-2017, 07:02 PM
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Oh agreed. He's almost dead on.
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Old 09-14-2017, 08:21 AM
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I enjoyed it. Based on all the reviews I was getting from all over the net, I expected it to be clunky and overambitious, but I thought it was really fun. The pacing was breezy and the comedy seemed well-timed. I was worried it would be too much like MacFarlane's cartoons, but it wasn't too jokey, which I appreciated.

I watched it with a friend of mine who is a die-hard trekkie (she has a wall of bookshelves literally full of Star Trek fiction), and we both agreed it's a worthwhile successor to Star Trek.
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Old 09-17-2017, 05:26 PM
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Welp I was gonna watch the second episode of The Orville, but it's been delayed due to Football, so I won't be seeing it tonight.

Man, so much of my TV consumption these past few years have been on stuff like Netflix, it's been ages since I've, like, watched new programs when they air on their actual channels, I've forgotten what it was like for stuff to be delayed due to sportsball like this.

It's still a pain in the butt.
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Old 09-18-2017, 12:46 AM
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I liked the 2nd episode a lot surprisingly, but the show still has a lot of obvious growing pains it needs to work through. Like the first episode, the punchlines fell flat, but not as often. The awkward workplace humor works pretty well, as does the Captain's predilection to mumble self-deprecating things to himself. The contemporary references though in this one aren't good and are going to date this show real badly. And some don't even make sense. (White guy in Compton joke several hundred years into a utopian future?) Good character development though, and an amusing scenario. There was only one part that really irked me, and that was when the acting captain gets lectured by her crew about how the real captain would have broken protocol to rescue her, and I don't believe we've seen enough of this cast to have that be established yet! It feels like that's a problem that either is designed not to be a problem in syndication, or this was a script/episode that was meant to be seen later in the show and got bumped up to 2nd.
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Old 09-18-2017, 02:23 PM
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The reviews I've been seeing for this show so far seem to be lukewarm at best. One of the criticisms is that McFarlane is so focused on imitating TNG that he's mimicking the show he has so much affection for without actually doing anything himself. But maybe McFarlane is such a devoted fan of TNG that he's trying to make The Orville mostly lousy through the first season, just as Next Generation was. And that gradually, in the fullness of time, it will become something insightful and worth watching, just as TNG slowly improved and by its third season was fantastic.
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Old 09-18-2017, 02:39 PM
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The reviews I've been seeing for this show so far seem to be lukewarm at best. One of the criticisms is that McFarlane is so focused on imitating TNG that he's mimicking the show he has so much affection for without actually doing anything himself.
1) I don't consider mimicking TNG to be a bad thing. Especially when we live in a world where really, we've never seen anything non-Star Trek try to mimic TNG like this before. Of all the derivative bullshit that gets made for TV, mimicking one of the greatest things ever that somehow never gets mimicked is not a flaw.

2) I disagree that the show doesn't try to do its own thing, because just two episodes in, it's clear to me that at the very least, the twist on the TNG formula is that the Orville and its crew is thoroughly ordinary and thus thoroughly flawed. This isn't Starfleet's best and brightest on board the flagship, it's a bunch of leftovers scrapped together to man a leftover ship. And so far, the two episodes have explored those character flaws and how they deal with not being perfect in pretty interesting ways. It seems to me that Orville is trying to capitalize on the promise of making a show about The Lower Decks. And while it obviously has a bunch of flaws, there's real promise here and I'm excited to see where it's going and if it can fulfill that promise.
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Old 09-18-2017, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
1) I don't consider mimicking TNG to be a bad thing. Especially when we live in a world where really, we've never seen anything non-Star Trek try to mimic TNG like this before. Of all the derivative bullshit that gets made for TV, mimicking one of the greatest things ever that somehow never gets mimicked is not a flaw.

2) I disagree that the show doesn't try to do its own thing, because just two episodes in, it's clear to me that at the very least, the twist on the TNG formula is that the Orville and its crew is thoroughly ordinary and thus thoroughly flawed. This isn't Starfleet's best and brightest on board the flagship, it's a bunch of leftovers scrapped together to man a leftover ship. And so far, the two episodes have explored those character flaws and how they deal with not being perfect in pretty interesting ways. It seems to me that Orville is trying to capitalize on the promise of making a show about The Lower Decks. And while it obviously has a bunch of flaws, there's real promise here and I'm excited to see where it's going and if it can fulfill that promise.
Point 2 especially
I like that they are fuck ups, but in a mundane way, not a HIGH DRAMA bsg way. I think it could be funnier, but I'm enjoying it quite a bit.
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Old 09-19-2017, 07:51 AM
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Yup. After Ep 2 my opninion remains the same, that the shows strength is just being ST (TNG) only where the plot points are allowed to be goofy as hell and characters can be snarky. Every time it tries to just do jokes it's weaker. Especially when it's just McFarlane telling dull one-liners. Fortunately that's a pretty small portion of the run-time.
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Old 09-19-2017, 08:29 AM
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I almost get the impression he wants to do it pretty straight and it's maybe because his brand is "comedy" he is being asked to have more jokes. i think there are someways to do that less "jokey" though, see Galaxy Quest for more details.
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Old 09-19-2017, 08:28 PM
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Did... did episode 2 really end with The Son of Kronar strip from Oglaf (nsfw) ?

Also, has anyone else noticed the abundance of DS9 guest star alumni on the show? Dr. Finn is played by Kasidy Yates, that scientist from the pilot played Bashir's father, and Admiral Tucker is played by Ron Canada, the guy who played the Klingon attorney that prosecuted Worf?

Also also, has anyone else noticed that Lt. Kitan's alien makeup isn't as severe in the second episode? For example, she has eyebrows now.
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Old 09-19-2017, 08:48 PM
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Also, has anyone else noticed the abundance of DS9 guest star alumni on the show? Dr. Finn is played by Kasidy Yates, that scientist from the pilot played Bashir's father, and Admiral Tucker is played by Ron Canada, the guy who played the Klingon attorney that prosecuted Worf?
Hollywood is small, MacFarlane is a gigantic Star Trek dork, and every minute of this show oozes, "this show is my childhood dream come true...!" I am fully expecting Patrick Stewart and at least 2 other TNG primary cast members to make cameos by the end of season 2. Plus, Brannon Braga is an executive producer, and is probably using a lot of his old connections to get things in place.

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Also also, has anyone else noticed that Lt. Kitan's alien makeup isn't as severe in the second episode? For example, she has eyebrows now.
Ya, that's a weird but understandable change. It happened pretty frequently back in the day where alien-makeup evolves over time. Look at the first time we see a Trill in TNG, then the first time Dax shows up, then Dax by the end of the show. Same with Bajorans. It's a fascinating thing to observe how those things shift over the course of production. I gotta assume they wanted her to be able to be more expressive, while spending less time in a makeup chair after filming the pilot.
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Old 09-21-2017, 11:35 PM
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Alright. Episode 3 was actually really good. And the humor worked well aside from one awkward exchange centering around pop-culture references. I was legit cracking up during the whole Rudolph moment. This was actually a legit good Star Trek episode. I feel pretty good about Orville going forward now. They understand how to hit the strike zone and make good Trek. Man, 2017 is a wild year alright.
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Old 09-22-2017, 04:59 AM
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When did ep 3 play?
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