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  #61  
Old 07-06-2009, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
From what I've seen of NGE, I seriously think the mech battles in Gundam are superior.
I'm not sure how you could even compare the two besides "hey they both have robots, kinda"
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  #62  
Old 07-06-2009, 06:18 PM
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Kind of unrelated as it's about a Gundam game, not a show, but still

On 8th MS Team and Norris' badassery: I felt ripped off when I played Zeonic Front for PS2 and found out you couldn't equip a Gouf Custom with a gatling shield. I mean, why bother at that point? At least the game did have the awesome solo mission that's basically a tribute to episode 10.
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  #63  
Old 07-06-2009, 06:46 PM
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I remember Zeonic Front. Was that any good? I did play it but I really, really sucked and I honestly can't remember if it was because it was poorly designed or I just didn't quite get it.
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  #64  
Old 07-06-2009, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Guy View Post
I remember Zeonic Front. Was that any good? I did play it but I really, really sucked and I honestly can't remember if it was because it was poorly designed or I just didn't quite get it.
It's...hmm. I mean, I like it, but it's pretty flawed. You could definitely argue that they took the realistic combat too far, as it can be very easy to get killed if you're not careful. The game became pretty heavily balanced in the enemy's favor after a certain point, though that does makes sense from a story perspective. I mean, you're kind of supposed to get your ass handed to you in the White Base mission.

In later missions, the game basically comes down to either having heavier firepower or sneaking up on the enemy. And don't even think about putting a unit on AI if you want it to live. Oh, and certain weapon types are brokenly powerful(especially beam weapons), while others like machine guns are useless after the first few missions. Older mobile suits continue to get pointless upgrades long after they're obsolete...I mean, the guy who uses a Zaku I keeps getting more customization options around the time you should be using Doms just for their mobility. I could go on.

I mainly enjoyed it just for the side missions where you can play as the Aces or the Federation, since it mixed things up a bit. And like I mentioned, there's an 08th MS Team homage side mission where you have to go solo to take down a bunch of Guntanks being escorted by GMs and mass-produced Gundams. And one of the Gundams even has a GM head! No EZ-8 though.

tl;dr: if you want to play a Gundam game you're more likely to enjoy, try TITANS vs AEUG.
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  #65  
Old 07-06-2009, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Wiggumbeard View Post
I really do want to see the first, original series. Unfortunately, the DVDs seem hard to find and apparently the U.S. DVDs of the abridged movies have been discontinued. I remember being told that the movies work well in summing it up. Either way, I kind of wish I could find either the movies or the DVDs of the series.
I believe I've got the whole original series on DVD (and region 1 releases, not some bootleg from Taiwan) as well as a bunch of other Gundam and various anime from my earlier years. Pretty sure I had 08th MS Team, Char's Counterattack, half of Wing, some other stuff. I'd be willing to part with them for very cheap, like the price of shipping and maybe some extra dollars. I paid full retail price back then, but time has healed those wounds.

Let me check some boxes, and I'll make a post in the Buy/Sell/Trade thread. The stuff's been under my stairs for years, might as well get rid of it.
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  #66  
Old 07-06-2009, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by `Hrist View Post
Gundam is an over-the-top space opera, but prides itself on military realism. It's almost completely devoid of mind screws in the NGE sense.
Remind me where magical space psychics and communicators that automatically broadcast to everyone on the battlefield relate to "military realism". There's a grand total of about two Gundam shows that stick to military realism, and they're 08th MS Team and 0080.

Gundam is a space opera that has about as much relation to a real military as the Federation from Star Trek. And that's okay. A lot of Gundam fans watch 08th MS Team and hope that all Gundam is like that, and, well...it's not. Not UC and sure as heck not the AUs.
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  #67  
Old 07-06-2009, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by MarsDragon View Post
communicators that automatically broadcast to everyone on the battlefield
I'm pretty sure there is actually none of this in UC Gundam. I definitely don't remember any of it, and I just finished rewatching the movie trilogy and the first dozen episodes of Zeta Gundam.
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  #68  
Old 07-06-2009, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by MarsDragon View Post
Remind me where magical space psychics and communicators that automatically broadcast to everyone on the battlefield relate to "military realism". There's a grand total of about two Gundam shows that stick to military realism, and they're 08th MS Team and 0080.
I thought the original was realistic enough.

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Originally Posted by MarsDragon View Post
Gundam is a space opera that has about as much relation to a real military as the Federation from Star Trek.
I wouldn't go that far. At least the various forces in Gundam have armies.
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  #69  
Old 07-06-2009, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by teekun View Post
I'm not sure how you could even compare the two besides "hey they both have robots, kinda"
Shinji is basically Amuro.
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  #70  
Old 07-06-2009, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by M.Nicolai View Post
Shinji is basically Amuro.
Yeah, I was surprised about how sulky Amuro was when I watched the original. But for the battles... they're different. Gundam's battles are... I dunno, cleaner? They have more of a "These are military machines" whereas Eva's are more "These are murderers committing crimes of passion."

Also Gundam 0083 has the best opening song in a Gundam series.

Oh God there are English versions.
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  #71  
Old 07-06-2009, 09:54 PM
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Don't get me wrong, I like the Winner (and Men of Destiny)

But I think I prefer the 08th MS Team OP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGtES1hS8Z4

Also extremely partial to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpqwY7tsZS4
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  #72  
Old 07-06-2009, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by `Hrist View Post
Man, I love the music in Turn A. Especially the ending theme. God bless you Yoko Kanno.
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  #73  
Old 07-06-2009, 10:25 PM
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Well yeah, employing Yoko Kanno to compose your soundtrack is basically cheating. She is always going to deliver a world-class production, no matter what, and she's going to pull off all kinds of wacky musical experiments while she's doing it. You just can't beat that.

I cannot believe that the internet has started to say stupid things about her, but I guess I should never expect the internet to be reasonable about anything. If you haven't heard the stupid things that people are saying, then don't ask. You don't want to know.
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  #74  
Old 07-06-2009, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by mr_bungle700 View Post
I cannot believe that the internet has started to say stupid things about her, but I guess I should never expect the internet to be reasonable about anything. If you haven't heard the stupid things that people are saying, then don't ask. You don't want to know.
I kind of do, actually. A link, at least? PLEASE
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  #75  
Old 07-07-2009, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Alixsar View Post
I kind of do, actually. A link, at least? PLEASE
I presume he's referring to the whole "some Yoko Kanno stuff sounds kind of similar to these other songs" thing.
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  #76  
Old 07-07-2009, 02:11 AM
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The only one I know of is Kanno blatantly mimicked Pink Floyd for the Cowboy Bebop episode Pierrot Le Fou, to the extent that she didn't even change the name of the piece(On The Run). But you know what - and it's strange to hear this coming from my own mouth - the concept of musical originality is highly overrated and misunderstood. Everyone is copying somebody else and that's the way it's always been. I don't even think what Vanilla Ice did should be illegal(I think the fact that no one takes him seriously is punishment enough).
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  #77  
Old 07-07-2009, 03:45 PM
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The way I like to look at the "military realism" aspect of Gundam is this: compared to the super robot series that came before the original series, Gundam is revolutionary and realistic.

Compared to other military fiction, or even real militaries, Gundam is a super robot series.

That said, Tomino did a whole string of shows that seem designed to bend or break various conventions of super robot anime: Gundam took the robots and made them into mass-produced war machines instead of invincible one-off supertoys*; Ideon goes the other route and makes a super robot so singularly powerful it's dangerous to everything, friend or foe; and Zeta Gundam spends a lot of time showing attempts at heroics failing miserably.

After I'd seen enough of these I realized what I've since confirmed by reading various interviews: Yoshiyuki Tomino effing hates robot anime, hated that he had to make his living from it, and spent about ten or twenty years trying to kill it from the inside out. Unhappy artists can make some compelling stuff (See again: NGE), but being sad and/or angry that long has got to take a toll.

*Yeah, there's still the Gundam itself to account for. But it's only pretty super at the beginning of things- by the end of the series technology has caught up with it, and it's pretty well outclassed. Amuro is what makes it formidable at that point, and even then it has to be upgraded specifically to keep up with him.
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  #78  
Old 07-07-2009, 03:53 PM
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And before that he made Zambot 3, a look at how horrible being a child pilot for a super robot would be. After that was Daitarn 3, which is about how incredibly awesome James Bond would be if he just had a giant robot.
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  #79  
Old 07-07-2009, 04:18 PM
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Yeah, Tomino loves to screw with his audience, which is why his stuff is so popular.
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  #80  
Old 07-07-2009, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanagi View Post
The only one I know of is Kanno blatantly mimicked Pink Floyd for the Cowboy Bebop episode Pierrot Le Fou, to the extent that she didn't even change the name of the piece(On The Run). But you know what - and it's strange to hear this coming from my own mouth - the concept of musical originality is highly overrated and misunderstood. Everyone is copying somebody else and that's the way it's always been. I don't even think what Vanilla Ice did should be illegal(I think the fact that no one takes him seriously is punishment enough).
Yes, exactly. Every musician is influenced by other musicians. The only times at which I consider it to be a problem are when A) a musician has absolutely nothing to add to their influences and simply treads over the same ground, or when B) a musician steals directly from another musician and tries to deny it.

Kanno does neither of those things, ever. She covers vast amounts of musical ground in her work, and sometimes she (quite intentionally and openly) tries to reproduce the sound of a specific band when that sound is suitable to the mood she's trying to create. Other times, she'll make a direct reference to a song, as on the track from Stand Alone Complex that ends with the orchestral crescendo from the Beatles' "A Day in the Life." I doubt, very much, that she was doing anything other than making an intentional callback to that most iconic of musical moments.

The thing to remember is that Kanno has many, many, many methods for writing songs, and she seems to always be experimenting with new ones. It doesn't surprise me that she's occasionally tried to capture the specific magic of a particular band, and it definitely doesn't surprise me that she's made reference to her influences at times. Those are both interesting ways to compose a song. More importantly, she has never tried to take credit for the work of other people or claim their ideas as her own.

Another thing to keep in mind is that, on most years, she composes somewhere in the vicinity of 100+ songs. When you count the number of songs that are supposedly "stealing" from other musicians, you'll find that it's an insignificant fraction of her overall output. People plagiarize when they don't have the creativity to make things of their own. To accuse Kanno of that is to display a complete lack of understanding of her work, and of music in general.
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  #81  
Old 07-07-2009, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrist
Gundam is an over-the-top space opera, but prides itself on military realism.

/FLCL

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAC View Post
After I'd seen enough of these I realized what I've since confirmed by reading various interviews: Yoshiyuki Tomino effing hates robot anime, hated that he had to make his living from it, and spent about ten or twenty years trying to kill it from the inside out. Unhappy artists can make some compelling stuff (See again: NGE), but being sad and/or angry that long has got to take a toll.
What about KIIIING, KIIIIING, KIIIIIIING GAINA?
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  #82  
Old 07-07-2009, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by onimaruxlr View Post

/FLCL
Oh you know that the Japanese military is working on this as we speak.
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  #83  
Old 07-07-2009, 07:10 PM
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I forget whoever commented on Seed and Destiny's music, but its the same guy who did the Big O and Full Metal Panic soundtracks; Toshihiko Sahashi.
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  #84  
Old 07-07-2009, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by onimaruxlr View Post
What about KIIIING, KIIIIING, KIIIIIIING GAINA?
That's after he started taking happy pills. A lot of the robot hate is probably because of his massive issues around the 70-80s, and even then he still made Daitarn 3, Xabungle, and ZZ Gundam. Saying he spend 10-20 years hating robot anime and trying to destroy it is simplistic at best. He spent a good amount of time having goofy fun with robots too.
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  #85  
Old 07-07-2009, 11:15 PM
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You have no idea how difficult it is for me to not refer to myself as Xabungle. I struggle with it every day.
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  #86  
Old 07-07-2009, 11:34 PM
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Speaking of Xabungle, have I ever mentioned that the ICBM Toss is the secret best attack in Super Robot Wars Z?

Because it totally is.
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  #87  
Old 07-08-2009, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by mr_bungle700 View Post
You have no idea how difficult it is for me to not refer to myself as Xabungle. I struggle with it every day.
I'd be lying if I said that this

isn't the first thing that comes to mind whenever I think "Xabungle".
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  #88  
Old 07-08-2009, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by SpoonyGundam View Post
Speaking of Xabungle, have I ever mentioned that the ICBM Toss is the secret best attack in Super Robot Wars Z?

Because it totally is.
Secret nothin'

Xabungle almost single-handedly made both Alpha Gaiden and Z great
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  #89  
Old 07-08-2009, 01:32 AM
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In a little bit of serendipity, now I know where this gif I saw a couple of days ago is from:
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  #90  
Old 07-08-2009, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by RAC View Post
After I'd seen enough of these I realized what I've since confirmed by reading various interviews: Yoshiyuki Tomino effing hates robot anime, hated that he had to make his living from it, and spent about ten or twenty years trying to kill it from the inside out. Unhappy artists can make some compelling stuff (See again: NGE), but being sad and/or angry that long has got to take a toll.
Of course it does, that's where Victory Gundam comes from. Ok, I haven't actually seen it, but from what I hear it's unrelentingly bleak. After Tomino got some therapy, he basically said "You know what? Victory is fucking depressing and you probably shouldn't waste your time watching it. Here, have some nice King Gainer instead."
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