The Return of Talking Time

Go Back   The Return of Talking Time > Talking about media > Talking about TV and film

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 11-18-2015, 01:53 PM
Kirin's Avatar
Kirin Kirin is offline
Not a Beer
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 19,479
Default

Capt Wilder gets a more-or-less canon relationship with one of his bridge bunnies crew in Frontier. Just sayin'. Max has a full set in 7 too.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 11-18-2015, 02:05 PM
Peach's Avatar
Peach Peach is offline
Remembers Love
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Fargo and Gamoorhead
Posts: 3,082
Default

I think the idea with the Bridge Bunnies is that he's hen-pecked. I've been wondering if that whole setup a holdover from when the show was being developed as a comedy.

Anyway, in addition to glassing Ontario, his ship definitively starts Space War 1, then gets stranded at the ass-end of the Solar System. Most of the crew of the Prometheus and Daedalus are presumably killed because of the fold, then the newly-rebuilt Macross city gets totaled again during the first transformation. The thing is, his decisions are perfectly sound, it's just that when something inevitably goes wrong, the responsibility ultimately rests with him. He might have the gnarliest command I've seen that doesn't have everyone involved getting killed. And the only company he keeps are probably ship models, Napoleonic naval fiction, and the various varieties of brown liquor. He strikes me as a married-to-the-sea type.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 11-18-2015, 02:21 PM
Egarwaen's Avatar
Egarwaen Egarwaen is offline
Inherently Stealthy
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Sebastopol, CA
Posts: 13,691
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peach View Post
Anyway, in addition to glassing Ontario, his ship definitively starts Space War 1, then gets stranded at the ass-end of the Solar System. Most of the crew of the Prometheus and Daedalus are presumably killed because of the fold, then the newly-rebuilt Macross city gets totaled again during the first transformation. The thing is, his decisions are perfectly sound, it's just that when something inevitably goes wrong, the responsibility ultimately rests with him. He might have the gnarliest command I've seen that doesn't have everyone involved getting killed. And the only company he keeps are probably ship models, Napoleonic naval fiction, and the various varieties of brown liquor. He strikes me as a married-to-the-sea type.
His ship's also conclusively responsible for the destruction of Earth, when a kung fu flick produced to keep morale up gets into the hands of the enemy and is misinterpreted as factually portraying humans as possessing fantastic giant-slaying energy beam powers.

All in all, movie Global has it way easier. He just gets stuck at the ass end of the solar system, then has to deal with a million-year-old domestic dispute that's gotten way out of hand.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 11-18-2015, 02:35 PM
Zef's Avatar
Zef Zef is offline
Find Your Reason
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The Vortex World
Posts: 27,840
Default

I wonder, what would've happened if the gunship hadn't fired on those Zentradi scouts? I mean, the latter were on their way anyway, so they WOULD have likely detected both it and humanity, but Breetai wasn't as trigger-happy as, say, Kamyin. For all we know, they would've glassed South Ataria (or just retrieved the gunship) and left without ever bothering to explain themselves to the backwards miclon race on the planet... or they might have started a war anyway, but mankind would've had more prep time and the SDF-1 would've been part of it from the start.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 11-18-2015, 03:24 PM
Vendrick's Avatar
Vendrick Vendrick is offline
Blue Comet
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 1,883
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Egarwaen View Post
There was still the entire bit in M7 with Basara and Gigil and the Protoculture ruins, which have a lot in common with the Birdman and its environs.

In addition to the Protodevlin bodies, there's also the Zentradi and their ships - which are more or less organic depending on which version of the Macross source material you go with. And remember that - AFAIK - we've never seen an intact Supervision Army vessel. We don't really get a good look at what the Macross looked like before the crash, but it's pretty clear that the UN rebuilt it extensively. And Breetai won't let Misa go anywhere near the wrecked gunboat they find drifting en route to the automated factory.
Hmm, good point, I forgot about the protoculture ruins.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 11-18-2015, 06:46 PM
WisteriaHysteria's Avatar
WisteriaHysteria WisteriaHysteria is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,785
Default

IIRC, the Supervision Army is just Zentradi brainwashed by the Protodevilin, right?
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 11-19-2015, 12:33 PM
Kirin's Avatar
Kirin Kirin is offline
Not a Beer
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 19,479
Default

And possibly other humanoids from the protoculture or protoculture-derived races, yeah. Something like that anyway; I'm not sure it was ever made 100% clear in the series, but that's the canon consensus that has shaken out. The bits of Supervision Army that the Zentradi were still chasing in the original series would've been remnants operating on auto-pilot (kind of like the Zentradi themselves were I suppose) left long after the Protodeviln were imprisoned, so it's all long-ago legends to them as well.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 11-19-2015, 06:47 PM
Peach's Avatar
Peach Peach is offline
Remembers Love
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Fargo and Gamoorhead
Posts: 3,082
Default lol Macross

Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 11-20-2015, 08:25 AM
Egarwaen's Avatar
Egarwaen Egarwaen is offline
Inherently Stealthy
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Sebastopol, CA
Posts: 13,691
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirin View Post
And possibly other humanoids from the protoculture or protoculture-derived races, yeah. Something like that anyway; I'm not sure it was ever made 100% clear in the series, but that's the canon consensus that has shaken out. The bits of Supervision Army that the Zentradi were still chasing in the original series would've been remnants operating on auto-pilot (kind of like the Zentradi themselves were I suppose) left long after the Protodeviln were imprisoned, so it's all long-ago legends to them as well.
According to the maybe-official timeline, the Supervision Army was still conducting effective operations a few hundred thousand years ago - destroying major Zentradi infrastructure and the like. That was, itself, thousands of years or more after the collapse of the Protoculture. Similarly they've been actively engaged with someone recently - Millia's reputation as an ace comes from somewhere, and Breetai's reaction in both Supervision Army encounters (booby trap and the derelict) is more "not these assholes again" than "!!! The mythical foes of my ancestors!"

If the Zentradi did wipe out the Supervision Army, even locally, it's a relatively recent thing.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 11-20-2015, 01:58 PM
Kirin's Avatar
Kirin Kirin is offline
Not a Beer
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 19,479
Default

Oh, yeah, I didn't mean to say the Supervision Army was long gone, just the Protodeviln who were originally creating/controlling them. Maybe "remnants" was the wrong word - I just meant a continuing force without a master, like the Zentradi themselves. Both armies were enormous, mostly autonomous, and spread throughout the galaxy, so it's not surprising that they keep fighting for thousands of years after the last of the Protoculture imprisoned the Protodeviln and then apparently died out themselves.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 11-20-2015, 02:35 PM
Egarwaen's Avatar
Egarwaen Egarwaen is offline
Inherently Stealthy
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Sebastopol, CA
Posts: 13,691
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirin View Post
Oh, yeah, I didn't mean to say the Supervision Army was long gone, just the Protodeviln who were originally creating/controlling them. Maybe "remnants" was the wrong word - I just meant a continuing force without a master, like the Zentradi themselves. Both armies were enormous, mostly autonomous, and spread throughout the galaxy, so it's not surprising that they keep fighting for thousands of years after the last of the Protoculture imprisoned the Protodeviln and then apparently died out themselves.
And I just realized I misspoke - I was thinking that the Supervision Army had died out recently.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 12-11-2015, 03:05 AM
WisteriaHysteria's Avatar
WisteriaHysteria WisteriaHysteria is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,785
Default



Meh
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 12-11-2015, 08:26 AM
Kirin's Avatar
Kirin Kirin is offline
Not a Beer
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 19,479
Default

Can't tell much from this. Though it continues to look like the idol groups that featured heavily in the earliest marketing aren't really the main characters, which is probably a good thing. And it's fun to see Regults around again, even if they are CG.

Meanwhile here's a big-ass interview with Shoji Kawamori over on Forbes' crowd-sourced site. I haven't had time to sit down and read the whole thing, but I did note a bit in skimming where Kawamori and Studio Nue confirm they'd love to stream all their new stuff worldwide if it weren't for the pesky distribution rights mess. :/
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 12-11-2015, 09:12 AM
WisteriaHysteria's Avatar
WisteriaHysteria WisteriaHysteria is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,785
Default

Yeah it's hard to have any tangible takeaways from a 15 second commercial. But this quick look at its art style and music is very underwhelming and bland.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 12-23-2015, 11:29 PM
WisteriaHysteria's Avatar
WisteriaHysteria WisteriaHysteria is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,785
Default

Looks like there's been more info-dumps lately. And our red haired Zentradi pilot is a Genius! That's neat!

Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 12-24-2015, 08:01 AM
Kirin's Avatar
Kirin Kirin is offline
Not a Beer
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 19,479
Default

Yeah, can't wait to find out who's kid she is. Her full name is "Mirage Fallyna Jenius", so if they go for alliteration it's possible she belongs to Miracle, one of the as-yet-unused original Jenius clan kids.

I'm still rooting for her and the blue-haired kid (now named as Kayate Immelmann) as the actual main characters of the new show, with the idol and bishounen squads as secondaries.

All those character profiles are also out on the web site - predictably the only idol team character design I almost like is the oldest one, who also has a great name, "Kaname Buccaneer". It's kind of cool that the requisite bubble, busty moe character happens to be their ace mechanic, but the design is still kind of terrible. And the poor Rei clone's design is awful.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 12-24-2015, 10:54 AM
Zef's Avatar
Zef Zef is offline
Find Your Reason
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The Vortex World
Posts: 27,840
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirin View Post
Yeah, can't wait to find out who's kid she is. Her full name is "Mirage Fallyna Jenius", so if they go for alliteration it's possible she belongs to Miracle, one of the as-yet-unused original Jenius clan kids.
With all the kids Max and Millia had, I wouldn't be surprised if they were responsible for 1/4th the current hybrid population across the entire colonization fleet.

Quote:
the blue-haired kid (now named as Kayate Immelmann)
"IMMELMANN!"



He should do a Turn some time.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 12-24-2015, 11:13 AM
Kirin's Avatar
Kirin Kirin is offline
Not a Beer
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 19,479
Default

Haha, yeah, I immediately thought of Last Exile too. The gimmick here is that evidently all the major characters in Delta have names that reference aviation history somehow.
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 12-24-2015, 11:28 AM
Zef's Avatar
Zef Zef is offline
Find Your Reason
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The Vortex World
Posts: 27,840
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirin View Post
Haha, yeah, I immediately thought of Last Exile too. The gimmick here is that evidently all the major characters in Delta have names that reference aviation history somehow.
I can't wait to see Battle Delta (or whatever they call it) helmed by Captain Hindenburg.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 01-01-2016, 02:47 AM
WisteriaHysteria's Avatar
WisteriaHysteria WisteriaHysteria is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,785
Default

It's a New Year, and we've got the first episode (or most of it anyways) of a New Macross.

And... I dunno. TL;DR Jury is still out. The preview episode that got streamed is missing like a minute or two from the end, as well as the OP & ED sequences. It's also probably too early to make real judgments on the characters or the story. The show doesn't begin airing in earnest until Spring. But so far I'm pretty underwhelmed.

At first glance, none of the characters seem very likable. The girl who appears to be our primary heroine, is unabashedly and unrepentantly moe in a way that's disappointing to see in a Macross show. I get the feeling that our Genius-girl is going to be spending a lot of time whining with a stick up her butt, trying to live up to the family legacy, which is ok and makes sense but somehow disappointing. In the first episode, we've already got a 'suggestive collision' that creates bad first impression for the MC. Yuck. The hand drawn animation all looks pretty ok. The CGI mechs all look like they belong in a PS2 cutscene, and that's not OK. I'm a little very biased against 3DCG mechs, but I can appreciate when it's well done (Majestic Princes did a pretty ok job) and this isn't well done. There's absolutely zero heft to any of these mechs. They look like toys floating about.

The idol squad is somehow worse than I assumed. They're not piloting the mechs (which I would have enjoyed) but they're literally surfing on top of them while singing and doing combat. The main conflict seems to be centered around the idea that there's a nefarious group that's terrorizing the Galaxy by using a brainwashing song to incite violence, esp among Zentradi it seems. And our idol group is a task force that combats that evil song with happy songs that reminds people about yak deculture. Isn't this essentially how music worked in Macross II? I think that's pretty ironic.

I dunno, I really want to like this show, I'm going to give it much more leway and benefit of the doubt coming up. It's just as a first impression fairly troubling. I'd be OK with all of the above as long as it goes in interesting places and subverts expectations or deconstructs its stupid idol troupe. But one episode in, there's no hints of that at all, and it seems to be playing things very straight. Which might not be bad in and of itself, but I have exacting expectations if you're going to put the Macross label on this show.

Oh yeah, also: #ThugLyfe

Reply With Quote
  #81  
Old 01-01-2016, 08:57 AM
Zef's Avatar
Zef Zef is offline
Find Your Reason
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The Vortex World
Posts: 27,840
Default

That's not how fingers work.

That's not how any of this works.
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 01-01-2016, 10:47 AM
Kirin's Avatar
Kirin Kirin is offline
Not a Beer
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 19,479
Default



(I haven't read wist's post yet, as I'm probably watching the preview ep this afternoon and want to form my own opinions first.)
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 01-02-2016, 06:32 AM
Excitemike's Avatar
Excitemike Excitemike is offline
Space Prez
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 14,830
Default

Someone put Sailor Moon in my Macross and I'm kinda into it.
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 01-02-2016, 09:44 AM
Kirin's Avatar
Kirin Kirin is offline
Not a Beer
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 19,479
Default

Okay, seen it. I can dig it.

The idol combat is the logical extension of all the advancements in concert imagery and gadgetry seen in Plus through Frontier plus the weaponized music unit concept from 7, plus more advanced pinpoint barrier shenanigans. It's over-the-top flashy but in context I think it works.

And yeah, the plot/threat is totally out of Macross II. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Songs changing how people think is a mainstay in this universe, so it's quite believable that someone would put that to use for evil ends, and/or that that sort of threat could've been left lying around in some other stash of Protoculture tech.

And of course it's all super pretty. YMMV on CG mechs but I think they're perfectly passable for a TV budget. I'm not in love with all the character designs but there's tons of characters and I like some. Oh, and I think our Jenius girl will be okay - she's clearly not super experienced yet and I'm sure she does have some family expectation issues, but I think people are premature in calling her a stick-in-the-mud based on one scene. She just has Milia's take-no-shit attitude. Give her time.

And then f course there's the music. It ain't Yoko Kanno, but it's quite decent. I'm definitely digging the originality of the last single, which is basically "idol ska".

So yeah, for the most part I like it. There's lots we don't know yet, like why ye olde kingdom of pretty boys is attacking and whether they're connected to the Var syndrome outbreaks. For that matter we don't know who's controlling the Walkure group either - the politics of this sector (which apparently is all the way past the edge of the Galaxy, out in the Magellanic Cloud or something) are obscure so far but I'm sure we'll get into it. I doubt we'll go through the whole series with the current groups and alliances intact.
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 01-02-2016, 09:29 PM
WisteriaHysteria's Avatar
WisteriaHysteria WisteriaHysteria is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,785
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirin View Post
The idol combat is the logical extension of all the advancements in concert imagery and gadgetry seen in Plus through Frontier plus the weaponized music unit concept from 7, plus more advanced pinpoint barrier shenanigans. It's over-the-top flashy but in context I think it works.
It's a logical extension, up to the weaponized music part. The music being used as a weapon in Macross 7 only worked for that very specific scenario because they were tapping into 'anima spiritia' business that only works against Protodevilin. In fact, the first half of Macross 7 is a pretty savage rebuttal against the idea that you can use music as a weapon the way this show and Macross II does, because Basara continually goes into battle just to sing at people and it has no effect. It's pretty much a gigantic coincidence that it finally does work in some fashion. And even then, it's not actually a weapon, the real power of music in that show was to teach the Protodevilin to be compassionate, self-sufficient, and make their own music. I think I would have enjoyed the premise of this Var Syndrome had it been something that was slowly worked into the plot in terms of discovering both the symptoms and the cure. But instead, we're immediately introduced to the concept and told how it works, and that's kind of a bummer.

But yeah, the idol group business is clearly where this had to go, since that's the modern trend that the show has to comment on. But that doesn't mean I gotta be happy about it. Still, I'll try and keep an open mind though. It'll be interesting to see if there's any commentary to be had on say, the disposable nature of the individual in such a group, the rivalries that spring up, or the dehumanification that happens. That's the hope at least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirin View Post
And yeah, the plot/threat is totally out of Macross II. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.
I don't think it's a bad thing either; I actually liked Macross II a lot and think it gets a bad rep. But it does strike me as pretty ironic. I mean, Kawamori's rejection of Macross II was why we got Plus and more. And now that he's older he's doubled back on accident.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirin View Post
I'm definitely digging the originality of the last single, which is basically "idol ska".
I think this is going to be YMMV territory here, along with the CGI. Ska is something that needs to be left in the 90s, IMO.
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 01-03-2016, 08:59 AM
Kirin's Avatar
Kirin Kirin is offline
Not a Beer
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 19,479
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
It's a logical extension, up to the weaponized music part. The music being used as a weapon in Macross 7 only worked for that very specific scenario because they were tapping into 'anima spiritia' business that only works against Protodevilin.
Sure, but this explicitly works against the current threat as well; Var syndrome seems to be both caused and cured by music. As you say, presumably there was a period of discovery after Var first showed up which we're not privy too, but given this is the Macross universe I'm sure someone tried singing at the problem pretty early on, it worked, and local powers latched onto that.

It's true that seeing those early stages of the conflict could be interesting, but OTOH we have a lot of early Mac 7 which draaaaaags as they're slowly figuring out the larger plot, so I'm not entirely unhappy with being thrown into the middle here. At least things are happening, and there's a lot of moving parts still to be explained (like how Windermere fits into all this). My hope is that the Var stuff is setup for interesting interpersonal and interfactional conflict down the line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
I think this is going to be YMMV territory here, along with the CGI. Ska is something that needs to be left in the 90s, IMO.
Eh, I was a brass player once, what can i say.
Though it's only the one song in that style; the earlier once is more straight idol music. If we're lucky maybe we'll get a string of different idol-music X other-music-style songs, that could be a lot of fun.
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 01-06-2016, 01:24 AM
WisteriaHysteria's Avatar
WisteriaHysteria WisteriaHysteria is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,785
Default

I mean, you obviously don't take 25 episodes to figure out how to fight back, that was a silly move for Macross 7 to do. But like, a period of 4-7 would have been totally fine and much more interesting than jumping in mid-conflict, IMO. Especially when world building has always been one of the strongest suits of Macross, and when you make a jump like this, you're sacrificing a lot of great opportunities to have that slow build up that allows for more world building.

Which really has me bummed, because again, building a great setting has always been a strength of the franchise. The SDF-1, Eden, City 7, and the Frontier Fleet were all amazing locales to stage a show (Bikini Atoll not so much) and they all got adequately explored. It's a little early to say, but this planet they're currently on feels pretty disposable, and it also feels like we'll be moving on from it soon too.
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 04-04-2016, 06:47 AM
Excitemike's Avatar
Excitemike Excitemike is offline
Space Prez
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 14,830
Default

OK, I've seen a valkyrie breakdance-battle against a Zentradi battle pod, my mission is complete, I'm going back to my home planet now, it's been lovely meeting you all.
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 04-04-2016, 09:26 AM
Zodar's Avatar
Zodar Zodar is offline
twinkling photon
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: It's all in the numbers.
Posts: 7,371
Default

Kawamori how did you make a show about the redeeming power of music & art in the face of violence such ugly graceless PS2-prerendered-cutscene-looking crap
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 04-04-2016, 09:31 AM
Zodar's Avatar
Zodar Zodar is offline
twinkling photon
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: It's all in the numbers.
Posts: 7,371
Default

All the strained attempts to spread the good word of a bad Christian rock music video, but instead of Jesus Christ Our Lord it's The Idolm@ster for the original XBox
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
anime , deculture , itano circus , macross , mecha , my boyfriend's a pilot

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Your posts İyou, 2007