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  #211  
Old 09-16-2017, 02:28 PM
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aturtledoesbite aturtledoesbite is offline
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so my team so far

Pugilist/Harbinger/Masuaro
Oracle/Dragoon

it's a little bit fragile

but things tend to die before i notice
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  #212  
Old 09-16-2017, 04:35 PM
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What's good to do after you hit the level cap in the demo?
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  #213  
Old 09-16-2017, 05:50 PM
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What's an Oracle? What's an Evoker?
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  #214  
Old 09-16-2017, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Sprite View Post
What's an Oracle? What's an Evoker?
I couldn't tell you much about Evokers, but Oracles (or Shamans in the English localization) are basically Troubadours from EO2. You've got prayers which buff attack, defense, and hit rate, as well as prayers that buff elemental resistance while also granting weapons elemental damage. There's a skill that dispels a buff and/or debuff on a party member to heal them, and a skill that dispels your own elemental prayer to do elemental damage to all enemies. The mastery decreases prayer TP cost and increases prayer turn speed, and another ability lets prayers heal their targets.
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  #215  
Old 09-16-2017, 06:25 PM
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Ah, okay. I was confused thinking there were classes I didn't know about.
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  #216  
Old 09-16-2017, 08:12 PM
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So forging weapons works differently here.

Weapons have physical and magical attack stats, and most weapons can be forged up to +5. No more augment slots; instead, they get a boost to these stats per point.

Additionally, some weapons unlock new properties when forged. For example, the material from the first FOE makes a Pugilist weapon that unlocks a decent skill when forged.

To lower the number of times you have to grind FOEs, you can recycle +5 weapons to get metal, which you can eventually get ingots for. Any weapon can be forged with ingots instead of materials.

This seems like a nice balance between Grimoire Stones, the weird skill-granting items from EO4, and the old forging system. I'm looking forward to more.
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  #217  
Old 09-17-2017, 07:50 PM
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For some fuckin reason I decided to make 2 Fencers as my front line:

Fencer/Fencer
Rover/Warlock/Shaman

I did the first mission, but something tells me this group is super fragile. I'm building one Fencer as an evasion tank and the other is chaser all the way. Chasing with the Rover's animals is pretty nuts though.

What's the deal with re-classing? It doesn't look like the same thing as subclassing, so all it gets you is different stats to throw on an off-race class? The Race Skills don't seem terribly huge as crossovers to other classes either.
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  #218  
Old 09-18-2017, 05:03 AM
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A thing about reclassing is that stats are tied to race, not class (and can then be adjusted slightly using the race skills that give boosts to stats, because those skills boost the stat growths). For example, a bunny Fencer is going to deal more damage then a human Fencer, because the bunny gets way more dex. And since bunnies also get the +evasion race skill, it synergizes with the Fencer dodge mechanics. A friend is looking to make a bunny Shaman later on, because for the most part a Shaman's skills are stat-agnostic, but it has a mastery skill later on that's a huge physical attack. If it scales like it should, the bonus Str from a bunny should make it ridiculous.

Another thing about reclassing is that it seems to be what retiring was (since EOU1 and 2's story mode did this, as you can't "retire" the story characters), and if you reclass at higher levels you get bonus skill points. Even if you reclass to the same class.


I eventually, after looking at a bunch of stuff, have gone with this as at least my initial party, until I get to mid/high level stuff:

Human Pugilist / Bunny Masurao
Human Dragoon / Elf Necromancer / Lalafell Rover


Pugilist wants to get hit, so it benefits from the human stat lean towards Vit and Luck, Elf goes all-in on Int so it works for the casters, and Rover's passive heals work off of Wis, and the Lalafells get some race skills that make up for their lower Str/Dex.
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  #219  
Old 09-18-2017, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbaglo View Post
A thing about reclassing is that stats are tied to race, not class (and can then be adjusted slightly using the race skills that give boosts to stats, because those skills boost the stat growths).
In other words, a Level 10 human Fencer has the exact same stats as a level 10 human Warlock.

The mid-game specializations also nudge stat growth a bit, but not much.
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  #220  
Old 09-18-2017, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbaglo View Post
A thing about reclassing is that stats are tied to race, not class (and can then be adjusted slightly using the race skills that give boosts to stats, because those skills boost the stat growths). For example, a bunny Fencer is going to deal more damage then a human Fencer, because the bunny gets way more dex. And since bunnies also get the +evasion race skill, it synergizes with the Fencer dodge mechanics. A friend is looking to make a bunny Shaman later on, because for the most part a Shaman's skills are stat-agnostic, but it has a mastery skill later on that's a huge physical attack. If it scales like it should, the bonus Str from a bunny should make it ridiculous.
I understand that, but how big of a difference does race stat growth play into Actual Numbers? This just isn't a terribly compelling system without that kind of information, especially compared to subclassing, and the only way to know is through testing.
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  #221  
Old 09-18-2017, 08:38 AM
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Here's a spreadsheet with stat growth information. "2nd name" refers the specialization you pick halfway through the game. Basic classes have no effect on stats.
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  #222  
Old 09-18-2017, 11:31 AM
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Huh, that's one way to handle leaking XP to your non-active party members. I just got an accessory that, I imagine, copies the XP the person who equipped it earns to your non-active members.
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  #223  
Old 09-18-2017, 12:17 PM
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Is it an Exp. Egg? I'll be disappointed if that's not the name they used.
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  #224  
Old 09-18-2017, 12:26 PM
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They call it a Memory Conch, with a description that it records audio.
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  #225  
Old 09-18-2017, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprite View Post
Here's a spreadsheet with stat growth information. "2nd name" refers the specialization you pick halfway through the game. Basic classes have no effect on stats.
Sure, but a 20 point difference in STR or AGI for a Human vs. Bunny also doesn't mean much to me. I guess I'm being really nitpicky about this because it just feels pretty pointless as an RPG mechanic, and I suppose this series has never been terribly transparent about what its numbers actually mean in the end, but it's rubbing me the wrong way. It seems like it's just a slight amount of optimization that ultimately won't really matter that much as long as you're not going super off-type like an Elf Masurao or something. Which is also why it feels pointless to me: what's the point of letting me make an Elf Masurao?
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  #226  
Old 09-18-2017, 12:48 PM
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The simplest way to understand stats like STR is that they're proportional. Someone with twice as much STR will do twice as much damage with STR-based attacks if all else is equal.
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  #227  
Old 09-18-2017, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbaglo View Post
They call it a Memory Conch, with a description that it records audio.
Both involve shells, so I'll take it.
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  #228  
Old 09-18-2017, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YangusKhan View Post
It seems like it's just a slight amount of optimization that ultimately won't really matter that much as long as you're not going super off-type like an Elf Masurao or something. Which is also why it feels pointless to me: what's the point of letting me make an Elf Masurao?
It's fun to experiment. The default races are there if you want to just grab and go, the rest are there if you want to optimize or do a challenge run. Like multi-classing in EOIV, you can ignore re-classing and do fine.

I like the Race system because it nudges new players in particular directions when building a party while allowing veterans to get weird. If you're using default classes, as long as your party has at least one character from each race it can probably complete the game.
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  #229  
Old 09-18-2017, 09:17 PM
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I made another party since I'm close to the level 10 cap:

Masurao/Pugilist/Fencer
Rover/Necromancer

Pugilist is going full blood HP build, Fencer is chaser, and Masurao does whatever. This team has barely any mitigation and no target healing to offset my HP sacrificing unless I build the Hound tree for my Rover, which is probably a problem. I also don't know if the Wraiths and the animals from the backline will have enough room in the party. Is there a cap on the number of extra slots those things can take up?

This game can't come out fast enough. I have missed you my sweet sweet dungeon crawling.
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  #230  
Old 09-18-2017, 09:23 PM
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The summon row has 3 slots. Which means if you're going both Necromancer and Rover, you will want the Rover to focus exclusively on one animal (this is fairly optimal anyway) and the Necromancer to go with the title that focuses on destroying wraiths more often, so they don't need to be at the cap of 3 wraiths for full functionality anyway. (The last source I checked claimed that title was Spirit Broker but I am unsure that this is accurate.)
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  #231  
Old 10-10-2017, 12:52 PM
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I started playing the demo for this last weekend and have mostly finished mapping the first floor. I wasn't sure that I'd be ready for another EO game, but based on what I've played so far I am extremely here for this. Party right now is Pugilist/Masurae in the front row and Shaman/Dragoon/Warlock in the back. All of the voices were terrible, so I turned them off, and gender was largely based on whether the female portraits were too embarrassing to use or not. In most cases, they were.

So is it just me, or does this game start out pretty rough? I'm playing on the higher difficulty setting, of course, but in my first random encounter, one of those ordinary squirrel guys one-shotted my pugilist. Since then, I've started using Unite skills very liberally and I start almost every fight off with Aegis Prayer. After the cakewalk that was EO IV, I'm definitely happy to see that this game has teeth, but I really hope it doesn't reach EO II levels of punishing.

My plan for now is to mess around with the demo for a bit before buying the full version. I still have a bunch of Ace Attorney 6 to play through, so it'll be a minute before I really need another portable game. I might mess around with a few other classes before I proceed too far, since they seem pretty different from the ones in the past EO games and I'd like to get a feel for them. That said, so far my party seems to have a decent balance to it and I might be fine with what I got.
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  #232  
Old 10-11-2017, 01:05 PM
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Yeah it's for sure rough-going in the beginning. This is my first EO, but I started on Advanced also off of a recommendation. I restarted the demo twice before clearing floor 1 because I thought the problem was my party composition & selections for my first three skill points. Also I am only just learning EO mechanics so I really had no bearing on if I was doing OK or not.

None of my fears ended up being substantiated, I think floor 1 is just hard at first. I actually still don't use Union skills often (or effectively I feel like). At any rate, things started going more smoothly in floors 2 & 3, and I am definitely going to pick up the game.

... yeah Floor 1... When those Wild Dogs use Terror, prepare for some pain if you don't kill it before its next attack.

Quote:
and gender was largely based on whether the female portraits were too embarrassing to use or not. In most cases, they were.
Yeah I was really turned off by a few of the portraits too. I guess there are gonna be some DLC ones...?
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  #233  
Old 10-12-2017, 06:36 AM
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I wouldn't stress too much over your builds. The reroll penalty is annoying but manageable, and it's perfectly normal to reroll or even replace a few characters as the game goes on. Just reroll or replace one at a time and they'll catch up. Also don't be afraid to turn the difficulty down temporarily if you hit a wall.

I don't know much about the builds in EOV but in general it's usually better to have a character specialize than to try and make a jack of all trades. Ailments and Binds in particular are very powerful if you specialize but nearly worthless if you only dabble.

Once you get your bearing these games aren't that hard, but there's no shame in giving yourself a boost until you get there.
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  #234  
Old 10-12-2017, 07:17 AM
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How many of you are playing this on Advanced difficulty mode?
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  #235  
Old 10-12-2017, 07:41 AM
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I can tell you from my experience with the Japanese version that this is a Megaman 2 US version situation, where "Advanced" is really "the difficulty of the old EO games."
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  #236  
Old 10-12-2017, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhuminator View Post
How many of you are playing this on Advanced difficulty mode?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSL View Post
I can tell you from my experience with the Japanese version that this is a Megaman 2 US version situation, where "Advanced" is really "the difficulty of the old EO games."
When did they start using the difficulty levels anyway? I definitely play Advanced and yes it feels like the same balance as every other EO game I've played.
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  #237  
Old 10-12-2017, 10:21 AM
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EO Untold, I believe.
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  #238  
Old 10-12-2017, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YangusKhan View Post
When did they start using the difficulty levels anyway? I definitely play Advanced and yes it feels like the same balance as every other EO game I've played.
It started with Etrian Odyssey IV, with Normal and Casual choices. Since then, Untold 1 & 2 had Picnic, Standard, and Expert. Now V has Basic and Advanced. From what I've seen, ever since Atlus started allowing lower difficulty choices, most players choose Casual, Standard, or Basic. Which is fine, though a tad disingenuous to the original spirit of this series. I simply find the situation interesting personally.
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  #239  
Old 10-12-2017, 10:40 AM
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I'm just gonna cut the implications off here and say that offering reduced difficulty is Good, Actually
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  #240  
Old 10-12-2017, 10:42 AM
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Having the option is fine but its weird to shift the "original" mode from being the default to hard?
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