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Old 04-27-2010, 12:33 PM
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Default The Megami Tensei Ghetto Thread

With the recent release of Strange Journey and the upcoming release of Persona 3 PSP, there's been a lot of chatter taking over the Like, Gripe and Not Worth Its Own Thread Threads. I figure we could just condense all of our bitching and praise into one tight little package for any and all gawkers to look at.

If you have any desire to talk about the series, whether it's something more recent like Persona 4 or something more obscure like Ronde, this is the place to do so.
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Old 04-27-2010, 12:37 PM
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Strange Journey's boss battle theme is terrible. Worse than Izanami in Persona 4, though for the same reason: it's just not written to loop. "The Genesis" at least builds up for a while before going quiet again nonsensically, but this song just *stops* and goes silent before starting up again.

also dds2 sucks lololol
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Old 04-27-2010, 12:46 PM
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Despite the fact that I have a bunch of SMT games in my library, the most I've played of them is the first 10 hours of Persona 3. I should really get started. And soon. Not sure if I'm going to play Persona 1 (PSP) or Nocture first...
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Old 04-27-2010, 12:49 PM
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Hey SL, why don't you like Persona 3?

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Originally Posted by TheSL View Post
-Because I prefer games with actual dungeons instead of randomly generated mess?
-Because I like for successive games to build on the unique strengths (negotiation) of their predecessors?
-Because I don't fantasize about hooking up with anime Japanese schoolgirls?
-Because I don't like listening to the same 5 songs over and over again 80% of the time?
OOH YEAH, DAH DAH DAH DAH, DAH DAH DAH, BABY BABY, DAH DAH DAH DAH, DAH DAH DAH DAH!

Nocturne and Strange Journey are both awesome, though.
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Old 04-27-2010, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
Ronde
Oh gosh have people seen the graphics to this game? And the character designs?

Gaaaaaahhhh.
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Old 04-27-2010, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by bobbywatson View Post
Despite the fact that I have a bunch of SMT games in my library, the most I've played of them is the first 10 hours of Persona 3. I should really get started. And soon. Not sure if I'm going to play Persona 1 (PSP) or Nocture first...
Man, do not start with Persona PSP. I mean, the advantage is that every other SMT game will seem great in comparison, but it could potentially scare you off the series for good. Don't worry, there are other SMT games that are really great. Like that one that TheSL doesn't like!
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Old 04-27-2010, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by spineshark View Post
Strange Journey's boss battle theme is terrible. Worse than Izanami in Persona 4, though for the same reason: it's just not written to loop. "The Genesis" at least builds up for a while before going quiet again nonsensically, but this song just *stops* and goes silent before starting up again.

also dds2 sucks lololol
It's not near my favorite boss theme, but I like it a lot. I especially like the dynamic volume tones, starting quiet, slowing getting louder, and gradually getting quiet again. Gives it a symphonic quality. Great sound design for a DS game.
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Old 04-27-2010, 12:58 PM
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In all fairness, I do like DDS2, it just did a lot of things that I really disliked. I'll just spoiler tag everything for Alpha so he doesn't have to read me raining on his parade.

Man, where do I even begin with all the things that upset me about the game. I guess I'll start with the music. Overall, it's a much weaker soundtrack than the first. I guess that's subjective, but I honestly can't remember more than three or four of the tracks (two of which are battle themes, another is the Mantra Grid remix on the sun). I get where Meguro was trying to go with the soundtrack, but it just turned me off.

The story was ridiculous. That's pretty much the only thing that needs to be said about that. It gets built up a lot as one of the best RPG stories ever in some places and I just flat out don't understand why. It flat out doesn't make sense. It feels like they were building up to something that could have been great in the first half and just gave up and decided that the rest of the game should be spent killing off every main character and fueling the rivalry between Serph and Heat that ultimately didn't matter.

As much as I think killing off the main characters is lame from a story point of view, I think it's even worse mechanically. Most of this is my own damned fault though since I pretty much ignored Cielo and he's pretty much super-glued into your party for half the game.

The Mantra Grid has one major gimmick that I also find rather frustrating, unlocking the special mantras. I don't like grinding and DDS1 & 2 are both very grindy games, i don't need to spend more time grinding useless abilities just to get something like +2 Agility. Maybe this is just my imagination, but I think the clusterfuck Mantra Grid made you grind through a lot more abilities to go for something outside of the character's intended path. Getting void weaknesses took a lot longer if I remember correctly.

There's also the way they handled the optional bosses. Having to farm a bunch of enemies just to get a rare drop required to fight someone like Shiva was way more time consuming and annoying than just going back to a certain room in an old dungeon. I fought every superboss in DDS1, with the exception of the Demi-fiend, but when I played through DDS2, I only fought the seraphs.

The dungeon design had a lot of frustrating elements. It's been a while since I played the game, but I remember both the Meat Processing Plant and the Power Plant being two of the most irritating dungeons I've personally had to deal with. To put this into perspective, nothing, and I mean Nothing in Strange Journey annoyed me the way that these two dungeons did. I'll take teleport mazes and status floors any day over those.

Hari-Hara wasn't the best last boss ever by any means, but Brahmen was absolutely terrible. So long as you have debilitate, some elemental protection and two -dyne level spells, the thing will fall like any other boss. That itself is a disappointment, but the fight is overly long and doesn't feel conclusive either. After I beat the five forms, I was fully expecting the real final boss to show up and it just plain never happened.


I'm sure I could bitch more about the game, but I think I've spilled enough fanboy bile for now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbywatson View Post
Despite the fact that I have a bunch of SMT games in my library, the most I've played of them is the first 10 hours of Persona 3. I should really get started. And soon. Not sure if I'm going to play Persona 1 (PSP) or Nocture first...
Nocturne is my absolute favorite game, so go with that one.

Last edited by Garrison; 04-27-2010 at 01:10 PM.
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Old 04-27-2010, 01:01 PM
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It's not that I don't wnat you to rain on my parade, Garr - it's just that I don't want to spoil myself ^_^
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Old 04-27-2010, 01:01 PM
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The original Devil Summoner has a teleport dungeon where it doesn't make any sound or animation when you teleport. In effect, you won't actually know you've teleported unless you have the Mapper spell active.
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Old 04-27-2010, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Turnip View Post
The original Devil Summoner has a teleport dungeon where it doesn't make any sound or animation when you teleport. In effect, you won't actually know you've teleported unless you have the Mapper spell active.
Just to be clear, this is the Saturn game, correct? I'm assuming so since you're talking about a "Mapper".
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Old 04-27-2010, 01:14 PM
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Yes, and now I'm afraid of ever going to Chinatown IRL.

Other fun facts: Konno-ya is in this game!
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Old 04-27-2010, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSL View Post
Hey SL, why don't you like Persona 3?


OOH YEAH, DAH DAH DAH DAH, DAH DAH DAH, BABY BABY, DAH DAH DAH DAH, DAH DAH DAH DAH!

Nocturne and Strange Journey are both awesome, though.
I agree with you on all these things... And yet I still absolutely love Persona 3. That's a sign of a well made game for me; when i can enjoy it even when it's mostly things I don't normally enjoy. And I didn't just enjoy it in this case.
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Old 04-27-2010, 01:46 PM
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They're pretty good. Nocturne and Persona 3 are my favorites although I also like Persona 2 and Digital Devil Saga a lot.

Ronde might be the ugliest game I've ever seen.
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Old 04-27-2010, 02:18 PM
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I have all the PS1 and later games but I've only beaten Persona 3 and 4.
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Old 04-27-2010, 02:22 PM
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I also own every SMT game released after Nocturne and have only finished one of them. While all of them aren't 100-hour long adventures it feels like I'm spending more time with them than I actually do. Case in point, me playing DDS last weekend: I only spend about six hours playing it but it felt like double that because of how many random encounters I fought.


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Old 04-27-2010, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spineshark View Post
Strange Journey's boss battle theme is terrible.
The one for the sector bosses, you mean? I love it. It's so loud and bombastic! But my favorite battle theme there is the Enemy Search theme --the buildup in those first few seconds, then the anxious, low strings that sound like you're afraid of awakening a sleeping beast, then BAM! Full-volume desperation culminating in a last, mournful gasp.

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I also own every SMT game released after Nocturne and have only finished one of them. While all of them aren't 100-hour long adventures...
They're not? I'm fully prepared to spend 450 hours with Nocturne and DDS alone...

But yeah, thanks to Persona 3, I'm on this same boat. Ever since I finished it in early 2009, I've bought (or plan to buy):

* Persona PSP (finished SEBEC quest, SQQ pending)
* Persona 4 (June 25, saved Rise and Teddie on the very same day the dungeon opened)
* SMT III Nocturne (reached the first "town")
* SMT "IV" Strange Journey (yes, I know it's not officially IV anymore)
* SMT: Devil Survivor (about three hours in)
* SMT: DS2: RK vs KA (well into the second (?) chapter, in the village with all the watermelon masks)
* SMT: Digital Devil Saga 1 & 2 (still brand new)
* Persona 3 Portable (Coming Soon)

I thought King Abaddon, being an action-RPG, would be shorter, but I've been told it's just as long as any other SMT. And given that I spend hours upon hours grinding my demons and rerolling their Fusions, I can see myself spending over 700 hours with all these games combined. Eek! And on top of that, I'm holding my breath for a Persona 2 combo pack for the PSP, and maybe, just maybe, Devil Summoner and Devil Summoner: Soul Hackers.
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Old 04-27-2010, 03:32 PM
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Nocturne is roughly 50 hours if you do everything. DDS 1 & 2 are about 35 hours each, so it's not that bad.
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Old 04-27-2010, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zef View Post
And on top of that, I'm holding my breath for a Persona 2 combo pack for the PSP, and maybe, just maybe, Devil Summoner and Devil Summoner: Soul Hackers.
I want these but I think only the former will happen, at least in the foreseeable future.
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Old 04-27-2010, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nich View Post
Play Nocturne first so you can bitch about how nothing you play afterward is any good.
It will ruin video games for you.
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Old 04-27-2010, 04:01 PM
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ewww this thread is dirty

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Originally Posted by spineshark View Post
Strange Journey's boss battle theme is terrible. Worse than Izanami in Persona 4, though for the same reason: it's just not written to loop. "The Genesis" at least builds up for a while before going quiet again nonsensically, but this song just *stops* and goes silent before starting up again.
ewwwww

The boss theme is not the only one that doesn't quite loop correctly, but all the tracks were remastered on the OST release and no longer have those obvious start ups.
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Old 04-27-2010, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
Ronde
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentSnake View Post
Oh gosh have people seen the graphics to this game? And the character designs?

Gaaaaaahhhh.
It's the attack of the tiny people!
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  #23  
Old 04-27-2010, 04:27 PM
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Having to write the title three different times on the title screen is always a good sign.
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Old 04-27-2010, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
Nocturne is roughly 50 hours if you do everything. DDS 1 & 2 are about 35 hours each, so it's not that bad.
I will disagree with these numbers. I put well over 100 into Nocturne and about 80 in to DDS 1. Haven't played 2 yet, it's in the log.

Also, why does everyone focus on the dating anime girls aspect of P3/P4? I've never once remotely felt like that was an integral part of the social link experience. If you want to make it a romance, go ahead! Nothing says you have to, though. The girls S-links are just stories that flesh out characters, same as every other S-link. But **OMG you can bang them!** and everyone thinks poorly of the game.

I hate pandering anime probably more than 90% of people on this board and I had next to no problems with how the S-links portray the dating aspect (just don't date the music club girl in P4, that was terrible). It is what you make of it.
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Old 04-27-2010, 05:18 PM
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People date in highschool!?

Also, I finished Nocturne in 49 and DDS in 29.
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Old 04-27-2010, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Brew View Post
[Nocturne] will ruin video games for you.
Oh god, it just came in the mail yesterday.
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Old 04-27-2010, 05:30 PM
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If you want to make it a romance, go ahead! Nothing says you have to, though. The girls S-links are just stories that flesh out characters, same as every other S-link. But **OMG you can bang them!** and everyone thinks poorly of the game.
And besides, like every other S.Link in the game except the mandatory ones (Fool, Death, Judgement) you're mainly helping someone out with a personal issue --Yukari and her estranged mother, Yuko training the kids, Chihiro being framed, and so on (disclaimer: never moved past Rank 3 in Priestess, Empress, or Aeon, or Rank 4 in Strength and Justice.) Not too different from, say, Mutatsu and his family woes or Kenji being Kenji. Unless you deliberately buy them gifts (which are optional even within the already optional S.Link,) you don't actually romance them as much as encourage them in their goals. The only thing that sets them apart (well, aside from the last rank-up's "intimate moment") is that they'll get jealous over the other dating S.Links after Rank 5.
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Old 04-27-2010, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyarlathotep View Post
People date in highschool!?
Where I live, sometimes people marry at the tail end of it.

...Yes.

Also, dating in video games actually doesn't bother me that much, with one caveat: it has to be well-written. As in, better written than most games' central plots. The romantic elements or what have you have to make sense for my character and the other character (or whoever we're talking about) as opposed to being a prize for getting that far in the game. This is really easy to screw up, and I expect it's what annoys most people about that aspect of the game.

Or maybe they just find dating fictional characters really weird. Can't say I blame 'em.
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Old 04-27-2010, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zef View Post
And besides, like every other S.Link in the game except the mandatory ones (Fool, Death, Judgement) you're mainly helping someone out with a personal issue --Yukari and her estranged mother, Yuko training the kids, Chihiro being framed, and so on (disclaimer: never moved past Rank 3 in Priestess, Empress, or Aeon, or Rank 4 in Strength and Justice.) Not too different from, say, Mutatsu and his family woes or Kenji being Kenji. Unless you deliberately buy them gifts (which are optional even within the already optional S.Link,) you don't actually romance them as much as encourage them in their goals. The only thing that sets them apart (well, aside from the last rank-up's "intimate moment") is that they'll get jealous over the other dating S.Links after Rank 5.
On the other hand, encouraging them to reach their goals causes them to want to ride your baloney pony.

Quote:
Also, dating in video games actually doesn't bother me that much, with one caveat: it has to be well-written. As in, better written than most games' central plots. The romantic elements or what have you have to make sense for my character and the other character (or whoever we're talking about) as opposed to being a prize for getting that far in the game. This is really easy to screw up, and I expect it's what annoys most people about that aspect of the game.
The dating plotlines are basically things out of Saved by the Bell.
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Old 04-27-2010, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalir View Post
This is really easy to screw up, and I expect it's what annoys most people about that aspect of the game.
And they totally did! They all end with the girls basically throwing themselves at the main character. But then he's totally in the clear, because they get all embarrassed and back off, allowing him to continue onto the next one. Real smooth there. I felt like the implications themselves were excruciatingly obvious, and I say that as somebody who still misses a lot of innuendo as it flies by.
Quote:
In all fairness, I do like DDS2, it just did a lot of things that I really disliked. I'll just spoiler tag everything for Alpha so he doesn't have to read me raining on his parade.
I agree with a lot of this, but I was ultimately pretty down on the experience. Compared to the first game, I found almost all of the dungeons really tedious, and losing characters was incredibly annoying. The soundtrack, while not as consistent as the first, did have some high points; "Madness" and "Heroic Battle" are probably two of my favorite three themes between the two (with the third being the Samsara Waterways in first). It's disappointing, because they did improve on a lot of things in theory, particularly with the less punishing hex-based Mantra Grid. They just messed up on the execution enough that it came out badly.

I really do dislike the Mantra system, though, and not just in a "you can teach everybody everything!" sense because the game does manage to nicely discourage it. But in a game where specific skills can be so crucial, it's awfully bastardly to put learning each couple behind a significant amount of grinding (if not for the AP itself, since you can use hunt skills to learn them practically instantly, then for the money). Particularly in the first game, before I realized this, I got to the final boss and realized how important Ma-Dyne spells were. Instead of grinding them up (because only Cielo even had a regular -Dyne) I just fought it over and over until things finally worked out.
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