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  #61  
Old 11-01-2016, 07:20 AM
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The ancient art of hyperbole. Only one Sonic game I've played was an unforgivable atrocity. That game was Sonic and the Secret Rings.
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  #62  
Old 11-01-2016, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madhair60 View Post
Guys, I hate that I think this looks kind of like it might be bad. The level design so far has been out of whack, and the new stage looks like a Sonic CD stage seemingly without the time travel hook. I just, I dunno. I'm losing the hype. The stages we've seen look either empty (Studiopolis, Saloon) or just bad (Green Hill remix full of wacky shit that doesn't work).

I wanted this to be good.
"Sonic finally makes the Sonic game everyone wants, but only Madhair can see that it is secretly bad" would make a good Twilight Zone episode.
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  #63  
Old 11-01-2016, 12:13 PM
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I'm just hoping they're going to make the levels feel a little bit more dense with, you know, stuff to do. Mostly they've just shown fanservice, like the popcorn machine, a Nack poster, that sort of thing. The sort of thing fans coo over but don't amount to much.

So far I'm not into the gameplay I've seen, which is at least three entire stages.
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  #64  
Old 11-01-2016, 12:16 PM
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The secret is that madhair is only into the bad* Sonic games.



*Most of them.
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  #65  
Old 11-01-2016, 01:05 PM
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it would be super cool if we could talk about the game
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  #66  
Old 11-01-2016, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madhair60 View Post
The stages we've seen look either empty or just full of wacky shit that doesn't work.
Yes, it does look like a Sonic game.
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  #67  
Old 11-01-2016, 01:25 PM
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Might you come to the conclusion that you expect something different than what other people want? Maybe you've moved past Sonic?

Because I look at these videos and think, yes, that's precisely a Sonic game. Looks exactly like I would expect it to.
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  #68  
Old 11-01-2016, 01:31 PM
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Well, I mean I could go into crazy detail but I don't think anyone gives a shit and I'd rather be doing something more interesting than argue the toss. So I'll be brief instead!

I will say, as someone who has rinsed these games, played them to absolute death, I think this is shaping up weirdly. This is based entirely on the level design as we've seen so far - the GHZ remake looks totally odd and has some stuff that simply doesn't parse with a Sanic game, Studiopolis and the new one just look... empty. Empty in a way that even Sonic 4 managed to avoid so far.

Sort of meandering like Sonic CD can be, but Sonic CD is played in a very different exploration style which this game isn't appearing to replicate. This seems a little like a halfway house, and all over the place aesthetically. The older titles were visually pretty consistent, we've seen three zones so far and none of them fit together.

I will obviously reserve judgment until it comes out. It would cool to discuss the game though, without the same bores saying the same tedious shit but I can't always get what I want. I know this because I am a Sonic fan, for my sins.
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  #69  
Old 11-01-2016, 01:37 PM
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Maybe instead of calling other people tedious for having the gall to just be reasonably excited about game that isn't out yet you could actually just tell us your fucking opinions and people could respond to them.
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  #70  
Old 11-01-2016, 01:41 PM
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What I've seen of this seems like its S3&K type movement in a Sonic CD style environment. Not that that would be my ideal choice, but it still looks like the most playable game since the Sega Genesis imo.
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  #71  
Old 11-01-2016, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleck View Post
Maybe instead of calling other people tedious for having the gall to just be reasonably excited about game that isn't out yet you could actually just tell us your fucking opinions and people could respond to them.
I have actually already stated my opinions in several posts, two of which are on this very page:

Here

Here

And, oddly, in the post you're referring to in your reply.

When I say "tedious bores" I am broadly referring to replies like your first one on this page, which crop up in every Sonic thread on the internet, ever.
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  #72  
Old 11-01-2016, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
it would be super cool if we could talk about the game
Oh, fine.

There's no guarantee it'll be good, but I like what I've seen so far. Someone did a side-by-side comparison of GHZ in Sonic 1 vs Mania, and Mania looks far more sprawling with more alternate paths (it's here for the curious). Yeah, it looks like it's using the same tile set as Sonic 1 here, but as I've said up-thread, I'm ok with Sonic Remix edition if it turns out to be good.

If the other zones are in line with that, and the new zones not yet revealed have a few interesting traversal mechanics here and there, there's a good chance I might like this.
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  #73  
Old 11-01-2016, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madhair60 View Post
I have actually already stat-
So your opinion is that

a) the stages look empty, presumably because it's actually possible to for Sonic "Runs Fast" The Hedgehog to actually run fast for more than a few seconds before running into some kind of obstacle,

b) four or five different ways of vaguely saying that the stages look "bad", which is not really worth responding to, and

c) that it's somehow a bad thing that this Sonic game made by a fan directly for fans has some fanservice in it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by madhair60 View Post
When I say "tedious bores" I am broadly referring to replies like your first one on this page, which crop up in every Sonic thread on the internet, ever.
You're criticizing a game (that, I cannot stress enough, is not even out yet) for containing mechanics that are straight-up pulled from the earliest games in the series in order to pander to fans of those games. Unless you go into more detail about why the things in Mania are bad, and how they aren't at all comparable to shit in Sonics 1-3K and CD, I don't think you can reasonably expect anyone to respond with anything other than a condescending explanation of the concept of rose-coloured goggles.
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  #74  
Old 11-01-2016, 02:07 PM
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You are behaving like an asshole.
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  #75  
Old 11-01-2016, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madhair60 View Post
it would be super cool if we could talk about the game
I would, but it is, again, not out yet.
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  #76  
Old 11-01-2016, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanto View Post
I would, but it is, again, not out yet.
The Final Fantasy XV thread is 19 pages, and the game is not yet out. The Persona 5 thread was about 25 pages before the game came out. VG communities discuss games prior to release; I don't know what to tell you.
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  #77  
Old 11-01-2016, 02:14 PM
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Yes, they discuss them. They don't make sweeping statements on their quality before anyone has had a chance to even play them (or at least they shouldn't).

If you just want people to say "Yeah, madhair's right, this game looks like it sucks" I don't know what to tell you.
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  #78  
Old 11-01-2016, 02:19 PM
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No one should talk about Sonic games, let alone play them.
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  #79  
Old 11-01-2016, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanto View Post
Yes, they discuss them. They don't make sweeping statements on their quality before anyone has had a chance to even play them (or at least they shouldn't).

If you just want people to say "Yeah, madhair's right, this game looks like it sucks" I don't know what to tell you.
See I really do hate doing this, I find it so boring, but I have to say I don't think it reads as though I'm doing this at all. Let me just pull up that first post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by madhair60 View Post
Guys, I hate that I think this looks kind of like it might be bad. The level design so far has been out of whack, and the new stage looks like a Sonic CD stage seemingly without the time travel hook. I just, I dunno. I'm losing the hype. The stages we've seen look either empty (Studiopolis, Saloon) or just bad (Green Hill remix full of wacky shit that doesn't work).

I wanted this to be good.
I think it's pretty gentle, really. And the response from you was:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanto View Post
I thought you were supposed to wait until the new Sonic game was actually out before declaring it an unforgivable atrocity.
which is sort of over the top so I assumed it was a joke and responded similarly jokily:

Quote:
Originally Posted by madhair60 View Post
The ancient art of hyperbole. Only one Sonic game I've played was an unforgivable atrocity. That game was Sonic and the Secret Rings.
But now it seems as though you were actually being serious with that first response and have somehow read my post(s) as a declaration that the game is definitely going to be a piece of shit. I don't get it. I mean, I did go into a little more detail, but I thought that just made it more clear I was basically throwing some thoughts around based on what I'd seen.
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  #80  
Old 11-01-2016, 02:28 PM
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Even if you're jokingly talking shit, you're still talking shit. I can mentally flip your statements from "asshole" to "overjoyed about the game" all I want, but the language is still freshly served from the rectum.

Maybe instead of sticking with the hopeful yet jaded Sonic fan schtick, just be...you?
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  #81  
Old 11-01-2016, 02:31 PM
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With absolute sincerity, I genuinely don't understand what I've said that's being perceived as egregious.
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  #82  
Old 11-01-2016, 02:33 PM
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I agree, that gun is totally out of place. Reminds me a hell of a lot of the aesthetic of another 16bit game, possibly World Of Illusion? Something very Disney about it, no doubt it being a giant gloved hand. Too "wacky" and not Robotniky. Doesn't go, sorry.

Source: playing Sonic since pretty much birth.
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  #83  
Old 11-01-2016, 02:43 PM
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If we could avoid the personal attacks in here that'd be great.
Thanks.
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  #84  
Old 11-01-2016, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MooMoo View Post
Something very Disney about it, no doubt it being a giant gloved hand.
I mean

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  #85  
Old 11-01-2016, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleck View Post
I mean

Sonic wearing gloves =/= Sonic game aesthetic. You don't see giant shoes or chili dog springs.
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  #86  
Old 11-01-2016, 03:05 PM
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I just think it's kind of odd to criticize a thing for having a big white glove when playing as a character that wears big white gloves.
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  #87  
Old 11-01-2016, 03:47 PM
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The aesthetic of Sonic stages has historically been defined by the way they appear to be made out of semi-abstract pop art. Sonic 1's Green Hill has this feeling with its angular foliage and indented checkerboard walls, but it's balanced by the recognizable aspects of its scenery, giving the sense that it could be a place in addition to a video game level.

Studiopolis and Mirage Saloon don't seem like they're trying to feel like places. They do feature details that place them, but these are mostly in the service of flavor rather than verisimilitude—which is why they take the form of big props like seltzer sprays and disembodied hands holding guns. It's all theming.

It's not unprecedented for different stages to toy with the balance between real and surreal, though. Zones like Spring Yard and Collision Chaos strongly favor abstraction, to they point they're hardly recognizable as being anywhere but a video game level. Meanwhile, many of Sonic 3's zones strive toward a more "naturally occurring" look (to the point they lose some of their identity as Sonic stages, in my opinion). Sonic Mania's designers just seem to be trying out a different mixture of these ingredients.

Interestingly, Green Hill is also in this game, and the main detail they've added to it—the underground background—is closer to the Sonic 3 "naturally occurring" look. So I wouldn't necessarily expect the entire game to be patterned after Studiopolis and Mirage Saloon.
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  #88  
Old 11-01-2016, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madhair60 View Post
The Final Fantasy XV thread is 19 pages, and the game is not yet out. The Persona 5 thread was about 25 pages before the game came out.
Because there's more to discuss in RPGs (themes, characters, story) than 16-bit throwback game about Blue Hedgehog What Runs Fast?

The main thing that's been elusive about 2D-styled Sonic games is the feel. The speed/acceleration, the physics. How he gains or loses momentum. A lot of that is difficult to judge without playing it yourself. However, this looks far closer than Sonic 4 and the Advance/Rush games got.

.....seriously, though--Secret Rings is the ONLY atrocity...?!
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  #89  
Old 11-01-2016, 07:29 PM
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Shadow's pretty fun of you can get someone else to do the "kill all the __ enemies in a stage" missions. I had a lot of fun with expert mode.

There is no way Secret Rings is worse than Sonic Blast though. That game looks like a fucking Hong Kong pirate for GBC or something, and it plays even worse.
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  #90  
Old 11-02-2016, 12:21 AM
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Sonic Blast is such a surreal object because one look at it makes you assume that it could never be a finished, official, released product and yet it is included in plenty of compilations as though its very existence shouldn't bring shame.
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