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  #31  
Old 06-01-2013, 11:29 PM
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...dammit Brickroad.
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  #32  
Old 06-01-2013, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Rascally Badger View Post
Thanks to recommendations lately, I picked up Sonic Colors. I've played the first world and I'm not quite sold. They seem to have excised the non-Sonic parts of the games, so that's all pretty good, but there have already been tons of disorienting camera movements that make knowing exactly what direction you are supposed to be running difficult. I'll stick with it, but its starting out more tolerably good than anything really memorable.
After the first world it changes, for the better or worse depending on how you look at it. Once it started requiring lots and lots of 2D platforming, I dropped it like a bad habit. It felt, flat out, really bad to me. Sonic's model was too tiny and I didn't feel he cleared enough ground with his jumps, and even the style of platforming seemed all wrong to me. The proportions for the side-scrolling seemed off in a way that was really distracted and unrewarding to me.

I found myself liking the 3D, behind-the-back sequences far more than the side-scrolling parts, which seemed really strange. Let me be clear that this means the free 3D sequences, and not the forced-running scenes that require you to tap left or right on the d-pad to zip out of the way of obstacles or hazards. Granted, it was a lot better than Secret Ring's tilting the controller left or right, and the forced running segments in '06 which were terrible and likely to kill you instantly instead of just taking a hit. However, this means the game had 3 main types of gameplay, of which I hated one (side-scrolling), found one decent (free 3d movement sequences), and one very irritating (3D sequences with forced running).

I guess that technically makes it a better whole than Unleashed, but I finished Unleashed at least. Not saying Colors is worse. I may have just used up my patience for sloppy Sonic games on Unleashed, but at least Unleashed's highs were, I feel, higher (the 2D levels), and I found werehog levels to be mostly mindless and easy except for the awful platforming parts near the end of the game.

Last edited by Andrew; 06-01-2013 at 11:57 PM.
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  #33  
Old 06-02-2013, 12:08 AM
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Who wouldn't want to be able to flirt with any male, anytime, anywhere?

(yes i watched the whole thing shut up)
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  #34  
Old 06-02-2013, 10:38 AM
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i couldn't finish it due to second-hand embarrassment

and i finished this thing

i must ask however: does cream come up at any point
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  #35  
Old 06-02-2013, 11:10 AM
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Welp, I guess I'll eventually have to pony up for a Wii U provided this thing is any good.

WELP. }: T
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  #36  
Old 06-02-2013, 11:25 AM
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@Andrew: Exactly what version of Sonic Unleashed did you play? I can't comment too much on the Wii/PS2 one other than that I hated the low budget copout map and you start to see where the cuts happened once you play HD (The Africa stage had more substance than talky bits and a boss fight in HD), but that one was okay albeit ugly.

The HD version has some nice level design in some places, but I'd argue its lows are lower. There are ramps where you have to press three to five randomly selected buttons in like a second or two or you miss a jump, and in some cases die. There are rail grinding bits with missing pieces of track where robots are trying to fry you with giant fucking laser beams. Sonic moves too fast on average, and the game likes to plant spikes and bottomless pits all over the place in such ways that you have only a split second to react when they show up. The Werehog bits are usually okay, but the stages run too long on average and the stupid rail walking bits come to a head when the game expects you to walk across collapsing spiked rails over a bottomless void with camera angle shifts that can screw you up. Hell, fuck Empire City in general.

It might be a little rough around the edges, but overall Sonic Colors is much more fair in its level design than Sonic Unleashed.
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  #37  
Old 06-02-2013, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilfut View Post
i must ask however: does cream come up at any point
Given this aspect of Sonic fandom there's something oddly offputting about Cream the Rabbit's name.

Can't quite put my finger on why
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  #38  
Old 06-02-2013, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Phantoon View Post
Given this aspect of Sonic fandom there's something oddly offputting about Cream the Rabbit's name.

Can't quite put my finger on why
stop that

You know what really sucks is that I like Cream as a character but there's this whole portion of the fandom that tries its darndest to make me hate myself for it.
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  #39  
Old 06-02-2013, 12:38 PM
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...dammit Brickroad.
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  #40  
Old 06-02-2013, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantoon View Post
Given this aspect of Sonic fandom there's something oddly offputting about Cream the Rabbit's name.

Can't quite put my finger on why
Amy Rose: Well Rose is the French word for pink, and at one point she had the nickname Rosy the Rascal.

Tikal: Fits into the whole Mayan theme.

Rouge the Bat: Name derived from Baton Rouge. Bat-on-Rouge...PFFFHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Cream the Rabbit: FWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!...But seriously, I know what they were going for (Her murder Chao is named Cheese so Cream Cheese), but man...HAHAHAHAHAH
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  #41  
Old 06-02-2013, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by MetManMas View Post
Wii/PS2
Some of these levels were based on the
PS3/360 version but most of it was farmed out to TOSE.

The Werehog bits I liked the most were the Empire City levels! It plays like a modern Ristar. The daytime levels rely on rote memorization, which is not too different from the Genesis games. I was thinking about playing it again but the 360 is on extended vacation in a box in the basement, so I'm giving Colors another spin.
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  #42  
Old 06-02-2013, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Excitemike View Post
The Werehog bits I liked the most were the Empire City levels! It plays like a modern Ristar.
In some ways, I feel a modern Ristar is what the development team would rather have been making. I still think the rail-walking segments are bullshit (and Empire City has a nasty one, though it spawns a free 1-up right before it), but overall I think they're pretty salvageable.

Just make the stages shorter (or heck, go for an interconnected world like other action games do), add some form of lock-on, and either ditch the QTEs entirely or give them a more generous time window and don't randomize the button inputs.

Quote:
The daytime levels rely on rote memorization, which is not too different from the Genesis games.
The Genesis games were not as pitfall heavy, the spikes were much bigger and easier to notice in 2D,* and precision movement is easier on a 2D plane. Also they never made you do randomized Quick Time Events when you leapt off certain ramps.

* Yes, I know you could run into some spikes you weren't expecting, but they stand out more as sprites than some grey blob in the distance that blends in all too well with the overly detailed backgrounds.
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  #43  
Old 06-02-2013, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Excitemike View Post
The daytime levels rely on rote memorization, which is not too different from the Genesis games.
whaaaaaat
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  #44  
Old 06-02-2013, 01:50 PM
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Maybe if you're like, trying to get Super Sonic in Zone 1 of Sonic 2.
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  #45  
Old 06-02-2013, 01:53 PM
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Am I totally off base? When I think of classic console platformers (like Mario, Mega Man, Contra) playing them well means learning the levels by trial and error until you know where the traps are, where the power-ups are, where that bird will swoop in from off-screen, etc.
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  #46  
Old 06-02-2013, 01:55 PM
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Well, I think playing the Genesis Sonic games well does require a certain degree of memorization (especially if you're trying to get Super Sonic), but if you're like me, you usually just bumble through the stages and a lot of the bosses and do well enough.
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  #47  
Old 06-02-2013, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Refa View Post
Maybe if you're like, trying to get Super Sonic in Zone 1 of Sonic 2.
My go-to challenge is getting Green Hill 1 in under 30 seconds

Although I used to play Sonic 2 like that, if only to get the emeralds out of the way.
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  #48  
Old 06-02-2013, 02:34 PM
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The Genesis games certainly don't require the rote memorization that more modern Sonic games do because the number of gotchas is near zero. Memorization will get you through the stages much safer and faster, but even a first-time player can get through most stages without losing a life. The same can't be said of later Sonic games and the dashing meter is the big reason for it, not to mention the less than apt controls.

The Sonic games of today aren't coy about placing enemies in your path because the game pretty much assumes you'll be dashing through most of the stage. Poorly telegraphed pathways that lead to bottomless pits are also much more prevalent in recent Sonic games as opposed to on the Genesis. Generations had the right idea by having the flashing red signs indicate bottomless pits, and Dimps could stand to crib that idea for themselves given the mind-boggling amount of them in the Sonic Rush games.
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  #49  
Old 06-02-2013, 03:10 PM
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As someone who has never played one of the shit-tacular "middle" Sonic games, my feeling is that Colors' level design is often quite messy, while Generations is much tighter. I had a lot of deaths in Colors which were the result of me not being able to see the hole/spikes/badnik until after I sped into it, whereas most of my deaths in Generations were due to unskillful playing.

Generations was also much better about not always equating failure with death. More often, failure will drop you to a slower bottom route, like in Sonic 2. There are exceptions, but "spin dash/boost straight ahead" is usually a safe action.

The main difference between the two games is that Colors is comprised of lots of small levels, many of which are comprised of a single gimmick and nothing else, while Generations has only a few more traditional style adventure levels. (The gimmicks are tucked away in the mission stages, some of which were pretty awful.)
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  #50  
Old 06-02-2013, 03:12 PM
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(The gimmicks are tucked away in the mission stages, some of which were pretty awful.)
It's an amazing thing how some of the missions are frickin' amazing fun and some are the most tedious bullshit.
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  #51  
Old 06-02-2013, 03:19 PM
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Generations is a case study in why gimmickry doesn't work in Sonic games. Or rather, what kind of gimmickry works. The levels are always at their best when they just involve solid, speedy gameplay. The stage gimmicks that work best are the passive ones that accentuate speeding along the route.

Compare grabbing helicopters in Speed Highway to having to learn and master the pink wisp power in the span of a single Planet Wisp act.
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  #52  
Old 06-02-2013, 03:27 PM
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I started Generations with the mindset that I was going to S-Rank all the Missions.

That didn't last long.
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  #53  
Old 06-02-2013, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brickroad View Post
Generations is a case study in why gimmickry doesn't work in Sonic games. Or rather, what kind of gimmickry works. The levels are always at their best when they just involve solid, speedy gameplay. The stage gimmicks that work best are the passive ones that accentuate speeding along the route.

Compare grabbing helicopters in Speed Highway to having to learn and master the pink wisp power in the span of a single Planet Wisp act.
Yeah, I definitely had way more fun with the Drill power than stuff like the rings to blocks Cube power and the very clumsy to control Frenzy power. I think a lot of that has to do with how super speedy it is, as well as how great it is for getting around underwater.
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  #54  
Old 06-02-2013, 06:09 PM
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So let's shit topics: there's an excellent fangame called Sonic Robo Blast 2. It uses a tank control scheme, which sounds awful until you realize how perfect it is for 3D Sonic: it allows you to turn without the risk of hitting a wall and losing momentum. That's always been a major problem with the "real" 3D Sonic games - you're scared to build up too much speed because you're scared you'll nudge the analog stick too much and slam into a wall. Though it definitely takes some getting used to, it works excellently once you do.
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  #55  
Old 06-02-2013, 06:37 PM
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I've made more progress in Colors. For the most part it is the best 3D take on the Sonic series I've played. It definitely feels more like the old Sonic games than the Adventure games did.

Then I hit Starlight Carnival Act 3. God damn that was some bullshit. The second half of the stage is bouncing on a set of springs that mostly move with the player, but also follow an invisible path, so you can bounce ahead and have the platform stop going right and start going up. It killed just about any enjoyment I was having with the game. It still felt like Sonic, though. Like some of those awkward later stages in the Genesis games.
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  #56  
Old 06-02-2013, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Rascally Badger View Post
I've made more progress in Colors. For the most part it is the best 3D take on the Sonic series I've played. It definitely feels more like the old Sonic games than the Adventure games did.

Then I hit Starlight Carnival Act 3. God damn that was some bullshit. The second half of the stage is bouncing on a set of springs that mostly move with the player, but also follow an invisible path, so you can bounce ahead and have the platform stop going right and start going up. It killed just about any enjoyment I was having with the game. It still felt like Sonic, though. Like some of those awkward later stages in the Genesis games.
That may be one of the levels I was playing when I dropped the game myself, actually. If you forge ahead let me know how it pans out. So far it sounds like your experience is very similar to mine.

Brickroad is making me feel I made a wise choice, though.
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  #57  
Old 06-03-2013, 09:32 PM
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I think I'm nearly done with Colors, both in that I am near the end of the game and in that I do not want to play it anymore. The main levels get longer and longer as the game goes on, and they lose the much of the fun sense of speed they had early. My biggest problem with the longer stages is seemingly random checkpoint layout. Sometimes you'll hit three in a matter of seconds, others you'll go half a stage without seeing one. The mechanics of playing are largely pretty good. It is easy to do most of what you need to as Sonic except the few times it wants precision platforming, which it as good as it has ever been in a Sonic game. What Colors it really lacking is level design. There are some really fun stages, but they are at least equally by tedious ones. And there are plenty of gimmick levels, which get progressively less enjoyable. I've encountered two more of those awful spring stages, the second of which made me put down the game for the night.
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  #58  
Old 06-13-2013, 10:05 AM
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Whoops, we slipped off the front page. I'll fix it, guys:

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  #59  
Old 06-13-2013, 10:42 AM
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Only one happy meal toy, pretty lame
sonic classic sonic 3 inch sonic sonic tails classic sonic super sonic 3 inch classic sonic sonic tails classic sonic
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  #60  
Old 06-13-2013, 11:07 AM
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Wait what sonic iOS remastered what??

So, how does it control? I've kinda given up on iOS platformers, and Sonic 1 isn't exactly the easiest game in the first place.
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