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  #3991  
Old 07-17-2017, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by TirMcDohl View Post
I can't wait to see her in action.

And now for the silly speculation of who to cast as the 13th in that hypothetical American Doctor Who list.



Zooey Deschanel?
That really is just absolutely perfect right up through 8 or 9.
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  #3992  
Old 07-17-2017, 01:33 PM
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I have to tell you I am loving all the indignant declarations of intent re: watching a television show

EXCUSE ME, MAY I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE

EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY THE FOLLOWING PROGRAMS HAVE BEEN REMOVED FROM MY PERSONAL VIEWING SCHEDULE UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE:

- "DOCTOR WHO"
a/k/a "DOCTOR WHO TOLD YOU WOMEN WERE ALLOWED TO DO THINGS"
a/k/a "LADY SHE-DOCTRIX WHO-MYN (W/ VAGINA & SECONDARY FEMALE SEX CHARACTERISTICS)"

THAT'S WHAT THEY SHOULD BE CALLING IT, AM I RIGHT FELLAS? HAHAHAHAHAHA

(*inhaler*)

RIGHT?????

I WILL NOT BE TAKING ANY QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME. THANK YOU, DISMISSED
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  #3993  
Old 07-17-2017, 01:44 PM
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It's just amazing. Like, when it's bad, Doctor Who is a show about a man in a rubber monster suit chasing you down a hallway. But when it's good, Doctor Who is a show about how people are brave and compassionate and kind and resourceful and empathetic, and how all those things are sources of strength against external forces who lack them. It's about how everyone is beautiful and valuable, including weird clockwork robots and space whales

"oh but except women, they're bad and gross"
"like, all human women, forever"
"just gtfo"

It's like someone coming home from a Klan rally and taking off their white hood to sit down and watch some Star Trek. WHAT ARE YOU DOING?????????????
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  #3994  
Old 07-17-2017, 02:15 PM
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It is indeed incredibly puzzling. Are these people sure they were watching Dr Who?
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  #3995  
Old 07-17-2017, 03:13 PM
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Cognitive dissonaaaaaance~~~~~~~

But seriously, though. All those things you mentioned, Vaeran? These fans believe they can only be properly expressed by a White Male Hero; everyone else is just a helpful tool, an accessory, or A Credit To Their People. If a non-male, or a PoC, expresses these qualities, they believe, it's only in service of the male savior, or to have them fail at it so he can show how to do it right. They simply cannot conceive of a world where anyone other than the White Male Hero can be just as, if not more, virtuous or ideal.
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  #3996  
Old 07-17-2017, 03:39 PM
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Ah! I see now.

brb, vomiting
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  #3997  
Old 07-17-2017, 05:20 PM
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I have taken a deep dive into the fandom of this show, and there's a surprisingly vocal contigent of conservative people who like the show but totally miss the main themes of the whole thing, exactly like Zef said.

On the other hand, though - and this is why I'm as excited as I am with the 13th Doctor's casting - there is an enormous block of GBLT and female fans, who, as far as I can tell, have mostly been treated like shit by self-proclaimed "real fans" of the show. They've endured accusations of only watching if they're attracted to the Doctor (and Capaldi's lowish ratings are, according to these people, because he's old and apparently unattractive), any romance plot is slammed as pandering to the female audience... I've even seen a few people whinge about the lighter, sorta comedy episodes (like The Lodger or Love and Monsters*) and say they're for people who aren't true hard sci-fi fans (never mind like 80% of why people like the Tom Baker era - these people are so baffling). There are people on Gallifrey Base who argue they shouldn't take the racist poem out of The Celestial Toymaker if they ever find and rerelease those episodes (the n-word is in it if you didn't know). They've been told to just try to enjoy and identify with the Doctor's character even though he hasn't been female (then Whittaker is cast and they lose their fucking minds).

Basically, they try to separate fans into tiers, and say some fans are better than others. But there are brilliant fans out there who are queer and/or female (the Whovian Feminism tumblr, for example, is excellent and you should support her on Patreon), and they won't go away and are growing in number. This is why I'm so happy a woman was cast - it's a poke in the eye to all these close-minded backwards asshats who like this show for some reason I can't fathom. But, more importantly, it's a message to the women in the audience that the show considers them important and valuable. Bill served a similar function for GBLT people (Christel Dee, the host of the Doctor Who Fan Show, penned a heartfelt blog a week or two ago about why Bill was so important to her as a queer person. It's a good read). I mean, that in particular took far too long - think about how many gay people have been involved in the production of the show since the very beginning. The shows very first director, Waris Hussein, is a gay man, the producer for the entirety of the 80s, John Nathan-Turner, was a gay man (and his tenure is underrated as hell, I think he did a pretty damn good job for most of his tenure), and Russell T Davies (creator of Queer as Folk, ffs) brought the show back, etc etc. Women were crucial to the show, too - the first producer, Verity Lambert, made sure the show was more than just a throwaway bit of children's TV. The executive producers of NuWho include women who kicked ass and made sure the show got made and was made well - as important as Davies was, the show simply would not have gotten made in 2005 without Julie Gardner.

To bring a long, rambly post to an end, all of the above is why I'm happy Jodie Whittaker was cast. The women and GBLT fans and creators of this show have long deserved the representation they're just starting to get. It needs to get better, of course - PoC are a huge blind spot for the series, Bill and Martha are all, really, so far. But the show is getting there, and long may it continue.

*which is a fucking masterpiece, btw, fight me
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  #3998  
Old 07-17-2017, 06:10 PM
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Love and Monsters is great, except for that fucking ending
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  #3999  
Old 07-17-2017, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaeran View Post
Love and Monsters is great, except for that fucking ending
Aw, *that* joke works for me
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  #4000  
Old 07-17-2017, 06:47 PM
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I do think that Elton's closing lines are some of the best (and most characteristically Who-ish) of Davies' entire era. The show at large, even.
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  #4001  
Old 07-18-2017, 03:00 AM
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The Sun responds to the news of the 13th Doctor with decency and sinceri- hahaha just kidding they're fucking terrible.
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  #4002  
Old 07-18-2017, 03:08 AM
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I won't click that because I'm at work but let me guess: they're complaining that the male hero is a endangered species and women are ruining everything good?
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  #4003  
Old 07-18-2017, 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Positronic Brain View Post
I won't click that because I'm at work but let me guess: they're complaining that the male hero is a endangered species and women are ruining everything good?
Nope.

They posted her nudes.

(That's a link to Salon, pointing it out, not the Sun)
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  #4004  
Old 07-18-2017, 05:56 AM
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To link to something not about idiots being jerks, Colin Baker wrote an opinion about why he's happy the 13th Doctor is a woman.
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  #4005  
Old 07-18-2017, 08:44 AM
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Una McCormack (among other things, author of the 12th Doctor novel "Royal Blood," which I thought was quite good) wrote an article about why she's happy the 13th Doctor is a woman, what it was like growing up as a female sci-fi fan, and it ends with:

Quote:
A little more of the glass ceiling has cracked. A spanner has been thrown into the workings of the world machine. We are reminded that something different is possible.
Dunno if anyone else cares about any of these articles, but I'm really enjoying seeing how important this is for so many people. It's all making me look forward to 13, as well, more than I already was.
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  #4006  
Old 07-18-2017, 08:56 AM
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Look I just don't understand how the Doctor's supposed to defeat the Daleks without a penis
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  #4007  
Old 07-18-2017, 10:43 AM
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Man, I need to be reading every single Kazin post in this thread. Makes me want to write an essay about The Happiness Patrol.

If I may wilfully miss the point, I wouldn't want them to remove the racism from The Celestial Toymaker either. I'd prefer they took the Looney Tunes approach of going "look, uh, we know this old shit is fucked up. We're sorry."
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  #4008  
Old 07-18-2017, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoonyBardOL View Post
Nope.

They posted her nudes.

(That's a link to Salon, pointing it out, not the Sun)
Ah, right. It is the Sun, and if there's one thing I've learned from British media it's that the sun is a giant baby.
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  #4009  
Old 07-18-2017, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by madhair60 View Post
Man, I need to be reading every single Kazin post in this thread. Makes me want to write an essay about The Happiness Patrol.
I love The Happiness Patrol. The only McCoy episodes I don't like are Time and the Rani (which has some good bits, tbh) and Silver Nemesis (which is actually probably his worst).

McCoy's era may have been way too short, but I think it's one of the show's absolute best. He's just behind Troughton for me as my favorite classic Doctor.

Quote:
If I may wilfully miss the point, I wouldn't want them to remove the racism from The Celestial Toymaker either. I'd prefer they took the Looney Tunes approach of going "look, uh, we know this old shit is fucked up. We're sorry."
I go back and forth. One minute I want it bleeped out or removed entirely, the other minute I'm happy with a disclaimer before the episode plays. The old farts on Gallifrey Base were angry with both of those, making arguments like "it was acceptable at the time" (it wasn't - Agatha Christie's infamous book title was changed long before the 60s to not be offensive) to "kids need to learn what things were like back then without censorship" (so what's wrong with the disclaimer, dipshit?). Either would be fine, for me, probably. Though honestly it doesn't matter, because if they ever found the missing episodes I'd watch it once to see what it's like in motion then probably never watch it again because it's dull as hell, racism aside.
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  #4010  
Old 07-18-2017, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TirMcDohl View Post
I can't wait to see her in action.

And now for the silly speculation of who to cast as the 13th in that hypothetical American Doctor Who list.



Zooey Deschanel?
Gillian Anderson. That way, she can be ginger as well
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  #4011  
Old 07-19-2017, 10:10 AM
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Oh, I meant to post about this - on the drive back home from vacation on the day Whittaker was announced as the next Doctor, we stopped in Flagstaff, AZ at a bookstore, and I bought a DW book. The guy ringing me up saw what I was buying and asked, "did you hear they announced the new Doctor?" in a very neutral tone of voice. I said "yes, and it's about time they cast a woman! It's awesome!" and was met with silence for the rest of the transaction. He didn't even say "thank you" or "$15 please" or "have a nice day." Just silence.

I wish I would have needled him a bit, but I just let it go. My wife noticed it, too, and agreed that the dude was pissed about the casting, and we're both glad I at least said what I did.

So - to the dude who works at Bookmans Entertainment Exchange in Flagstaff - I hope you enjoy season 11!
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  #4012  
Old 07-19-2017, 02:21 PM
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The Mary Sue responds
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  #4013  
Old 07-21-2017, 06:48 AM
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Deborah Watling passed away, sadly. There's not a lot of the main cast of the Second Doctor era left

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  #4014  
Old 07-21-2017, 08:30 AM
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On the flip side of that sad news, this is the best article/take/blog/whatever about the 13th Doctor I've seen yet.
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  #4015  
Old 07-21-2017, 09:13 AM
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I really do love that closing line, it's excellent.
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  #4016  
Old 07-21-2017, 01:02 PM
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(Spoilers) Rumors that Bill might be back in the Christmas special according to the Radio Times. I sure hope so - I wasn't satisfied with how she left, so maybe another story for her will make me feel better about it.

Or better yet - maybe she'll stick with the Doctor when she regenerates
.
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  #4017  
Old 07-21-2017, 01:03 PM
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Via The Mary Sue

Jenny, the Doctor’s Daughter, Finally Getting the Doctor Who Spinoff Adventures She Deserves

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Initially, the Doctor wasn’t too happy with Jenny’s existence as a Time Lord with a blank slate, but that certainly leaves her wide open for her own storylines—probably with a lot less angst than the Doctor’s—which we’ll be getting in audio drama form from Big Finnish Productions.
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  #4018  
Old 07-21-2017, 01:10 PM
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Whoa, didn't see that one coming. Like most new Big Finish lines these days, I'll give it a shot eventually, but I was never exactly in love with the character (that episode is pretty meh) so we'll see where they take her.

I bet her first episode features the Fifth Doctor.
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  #4019  
Old 07-21-2017, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
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Or better yet - maybe she'll stick with the Doctor when she regenerates .
I can but dream
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  #4020  
Old 07-21-2017, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
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I bet her first episode features the Fifth Doctor.
Or the Tenth.

(And a whole litter of kids.)

Last edited by Sven; 07-21-2017 at 01:31 PM.
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